Biggest alliance mess up of all time?

[Dr. Dan]

I said "more or less"... maybe some emphasis on the "less", but they certainly were not your enemy. Overall, their effect on the Coalition-BLEU war was in favour of the Coalition.

The whole going after TOP thing is a load. I was in .gov and there was no such actions being planned. I'll give you that ES' grave comment was rather over the top, but that's as far as that went. After GGA and Gremlins "solved" their issue, we went back to our own daily grind, and the guy who was so mean to you wasn't even in the alliance.

Good to know you weren't planning to kill us. It was very hard to believe that from the forum presence and leaked screenshots.

And sure, I would never blame you for being ready to defend TOP against an attack by Polaris. However that attack was never even in the works, and in the end you boys attacked NpO over one (or more) of your leader's grudges stemming from the UJW. That's it, that's all.

That's a bit off base, Hizzy.

[VIdiot the Great]

The whole going after TOP thing is a load. I was in .gov and there was no such actions being planned. I'll give you that ES' grave comment was rather over the top, but that's as far as that went. After GGA and Gremlins "solved" their issue, we went back to our own daily grind, and the guy who was so mean to you wasn't even in the alliance.

I have to respectfully disagree. You, and others, gloss over the whole 'dance on the graves' comment from a sitting Emperor.

Based on my experience in CN, if someone is posting material like that on the OWF, you can only imagine what is going on in those vaunted and murky back channels. I had no connection to TOP at the time, and I vividly remember the comment, and several NpO'ers making fairly negative comments about TOP.

Now, I like ES, and I like all the Polars that I've met subsequently. A lot in fact. But I really find it hard to believe you're taking the position that 'TOP is paranoid' because they believed that when the Emperor of NpO was claiming that he couldn't wait to dance on the graves of TOP (and Valhalla, if I recall correctly) that they might take it as a statement of the alliance and act accordingly.

Let's put it this way. Let's say TOP did absolutely nothing and it turned out NpO did want to roll TOP (I wasn't there, and I don't pretend to know the inner workings of any alliance other than my own) and then DID roll TOP. What would you say to a TOP member that said 'We didn't see this coming?'

You'd say 'WHAT? Our Emperor TOLD you he couldn't wait to dance on your grave. Did you think he was taking you to a prom?'

So I think it's a bit much to expect an alliance to not be suspicious of another alliance when their leader is looking forward to their death.

Just my two cents.

VI

[RandomInterrupt]

I have to respectfully disagree. You, and others, gloss over the whole 'dance on the graves' comment from a sitting Emperor.

I stopped reading here. Sponge wasn't even an active part of the alliance at the time. He was demasked and had no forum access. He had no nation. There's only one sitting Emperor, and as he just stated in this thread he had no intentions or desire to do anything to TOP.

[King DrunkWino]

I'm curious to see if this is just a misremembering of timelines or something more.

A farmer and an architect both find themselves in an open field stretching for miles in all directions. Both marvel at the beauty they see for a while. Later, both of them go to a nearby diner and have lunch with a mutual friend. The friend asks where they were.

"The most beautiful field I've ever seen," the farmer replied, "I could see acres of crops and herds of cattle. I saw a great farmhouse with a couple of guest houses and a huge barn. It would make a wonderful place to live."

"The most beautiful field I've ever seen," the architect replied, "I could see a small community and a grocery store. I saw a gas station, a butcher shop, a post office and a huge church. It would make a wonderful place to live."

Their friend was confused and asked them to show him this place. When they got there, their friend looked around and said:

"Looks like a big open field to me."

[Electron Sponge]

It forced the formation of other alliance blocks such as the League. Other alliances HAD to form some sort of block, otherwise what was to stop the WUT from picking them off one by one?

The League was being formed before there was any public knowledge of the formation of the Initiative, as AirMe even said in the announcement post:

This is a little something that the southern half of the MDP web has been bouncing around for a few months trying to get worked out, and although our counterparts in the northern half of the web beat us to the punch with the creation of the Initiative, we've pushed on and finally taken our first step towards a greater unity in the southern web. Ladies and gentlement of the Planet Bob, I present to you...the League!

The League was just a formalization of the CoaLUEtion.

Your apology may been sincere, but for a lot of coalition members at that time remarks as the "dancing on your grave" quote were still remembered very well.

You'll note I've never retracted that statement. I may not be actively pursuing Citadel's downfall (not that I ever was anyway, and Citadel are doing a good enough job of it on their own) but I'll be honest, I don't like the way some Citadel alliances do business and I will not be sorry to see that bloc and most of the alliances in it gone when that day finally comes. This doesn't mean I've got a secret Kill Citadel forum stashed away somewhere. Honestly you've no idea of the depths of my laziness and apathy regarding you Citadel types. Mostly you bore me, to be honest. When I was in Vox and receiving daily intel from your alliances and the bloc as a whole, they'd be the last thing I'd look at because odds are it was nothing but self righteous preening and pompous grandiosity. I was right nine times out of ten.

Also 'dancing on your grave' does not mean 'I'm going to actively work to destroy you'. It means 'when you're gone I'll still be here and quite glad you're not'. I think some people's statements regarding my enmity for Citadel are very much overstated and hysterical. Next time you're going to pretend to be upset about my comments, please do yourselves the favor of actually knowing what that phrase means before shooting off at the mouth or, you know, starting a war.

Edit: Just noticed this one-

for all the comments about Shark Week being a huge and horrible mistake, it's interesting that one of the most frequent things I get asked about the new GOONS is "are you going to have another Shark Week?", or more usually "when are you going to have another Shark Week?". It clearly had a significant impact, whether people see that as positive or negative (and while I've seen both opinions expressed, outside of this thread I've seen more support for it than opposition). Personally I doubt that the old GOONS would have had a considerably different fate if Shark Week had never happened, thus whether you like it or not it can't really be counted as that huge a mistake. It may have been symptomatic of a mistake in attitude, but in and of itself it was not a cause.

People are probably asking you "when" so they know if they should start putting together their GOONS target list now or later.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Electron Sponge

[Dr. Dan]

You'll note I've never retracted that statement. I may not be actively pursuing Citadel's downfall (not that I ever was anyway, and Citadel are doing a good enough job of it on their own) but I'll be honest, I don't like the way some Citadel alliances do business and I will not be sorry to see that bloc and most of the alliances in it gone when that day finally comes. This doesn't mean I've got a secret Kill Citadel forum stashed away somewhere. Honestly you've no idea of the depths of my laziness and apathy regarding you Citadel types. Mostly you bore me, to be honest. When I was in Vox and receiving daily intel from your alliances and the bloc as a whole, they'd be the last thing I'd look at because odds are it was nothing but self righteous preening and pompous grandiosity. I was right nine times out of ten.

Love you too, snookums.

[hizzy]

That's a bit off base, Hizzy.

I may be a pain in the $@!, but I don't make this stuff up. That was right from the mouth of one of Gremlins' leaders.

"Gre declared because Myworld and Random tried to push GGA to attack us over green. But mostly, they declared because I hated ES and NpO in general..... It was borne of my want for revenge over GOONS."

I have to respectfully disagree. You, and others, gloss over the whole 'dance on the graves' comment from a sitting Emperor.

Based on my experience in CN, if someone is posting material like that on the OWF, you can only imagine what is going on in those vaunted and murky back channels. I had no connection to TOP at the time, and I vividly remember the comment, and several NpO'ers making fairly negative comments about TOP.

I get what you're saying, and it's a good point; when someone makes statements like that, it leaves you wondering what's going on in that alliance. But then, what would it tell you if that same person was overthrown?

Seriously, you can't just pick up a history book, read what happened up to a certain point and then choose to stop and draw up your own conclusions. If you're going to interpret the meaning behind someone's actions, take the whole cake. Yes, Sponge made a bold comment (surprise surprise )... and he was overthrown.

[VIdiot the Great]

I stopped reading here. Sponge wasn't even an active part of the alliance at the time. He was demasked and had no forum access. He had no nation. There's only one sitting Emperor, and as he just stated in this thread he had no intentions or desire to do anything to TOP.

Thanks, I stand corrected. You're right, as I recall that comment was made in January/February 2008, and ES didn't come back as Emperor til April or May 2008.

[Dr. Dan]

I may be a pain in the $@!, but I don't make this stuff up. That was right from the mouth of one of Gremlins' leaders.

"Gre declared because Myworld and Random tried to push GGA to attack us over green. But mostly, they declared because I hated ES and NpO in general..... It was borne of my want for revenge over GOONS."

Ah, true or not, I thought by "boys" you were referring to Citadel as a whole. Whoops.

Also, Grä wanting to avenge GOONS is a huge surprise to me, considering the hostility GOONS showed Grämlins during the early days.

[Sandwich Controversy]

Ah, true or not, I thought by "boys" you were referring to Citadel as a whole. Whoops.

Also, Grä wanting to avenge GOONS is a huge surprise to me, considering the hostility GOONS showed Grämlins during the early days.

I'm guessing that quote came from Boondock, an ex-goon.

[Steelrat]

Love you too, snookums.

Lol, i had the same thought in line as reply to ES rant. Honestly ES without you CN would be half fun

For the rest of the folks, you can think what you want, Grämlins arn´t saints nor we are the moral police and of course we aren´t treehugger either. We are what we are, we play the game with our rules and if they don´t fit with yours ... meh, that´s the fun in CN.

Edit:

"Gre declared because Myworld and Random tried to push GGA to attack us over green. But mostly, they declared because I hated ES and NpO in general..... It was borne of my want for revenge over GOONS."

^^ This is from Boondock, yes.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Steelrat

[Dr. Dan]

Lol, i had the same thought in line as reply to ES rant. Honestly ES without you CN would be half fun

For the rest of the folks, you can think what you want, Grämlins arn´t saints nor we are the moral police and of course we aren´t treehugger either. We are what we are, we play the game with our rules and if they don´t fit with yours ... meh, that´s the fun in CN.

Except for Saint Syz, blessed be thy name.

[Electron Sponge]

Lol, i had the same thought in line as reply to ES rant. Honestly ES without you CN would be half fun

I am the Shining Holy Light of Cyber Nations, the Alpha and the Omega, the Destroyer of Nations and the Bringer of Truth. All who have known my Grace love me for it, even if they fear to admit it out loud. With the words of power "Also Hello" I bring forth the Mighty Host of a Free Cyber Nations, slaughtering all who stand in my Holy Path and distributing Girl Scout Cookies to those who dig my Enlightened Vibe.

[Dr. Dan]

Lol, i had the same thought in line as reply to ES rant. Honestly ES without you CN would be half fun

F, way to increase his ego more. I think we should have a race between TOP's collective ego and ES's.

/Thread derailed.

P.S. Mine is bigger.

[Electron Sponge]

F, way to increase his ego more.

This could be included in a list of the biggest alliance mess ups of all time

[kingzog]

Don't you love it when people who have never been a member of your alliance come and tell you what you said and what you posted and what you planned?

Well, when they have "leaked screenshots"....

I do so love that phrase.

Why can't folks just say, "So our spy told us that you guys were planning X...."?

[willirica]

Well, when they have "leaked screenshots"....

I do so love that phrase.

Why can't folks just say, "So our spy told us that you guys were planning X...."?

Spying is immoral, good sir, and no member alliance of the glorious citadel has ever partaken in it.

[RandomInterrupt]

Well, when they have "leaked screenshots"....

I do so love that phrase.

Why can't folks just say, "So our spy told us that you guys were planning X...."?

I actually laughed when I read that. It's hilarious how some alliances are still unwilling to admit that they took part in spying and received information from spies. It's not a secret and it's just laughable to deny it at this point. Leaked screenshots indeed.

[Fallen Fool]

You may not had a detailed "secret kill TOP plan" but Polar would have jumped on TOP/Citadel any second you had a chance.

Yes at the time Polar wasn't a big fan of the Citadel and would have relished the opportunity to kill you. That doesn't mean, however, that there was some sort of plan designed to bring that about. It was more of a "When these guys screw up, let's bury them." You know kind of like the Citadel took advantage of Polar screwing up and launched a massive curbstomp against them last summer?

I'm guessing that quote came from Boondock, an ex-goon.

I miss Boondock. He needs to get more active

[Electron Sponge]

You know kind of like the Citadel took advantage of Polar screwing up and launched a massive curbstomp against them last summer?

Yeah, hey, good point FF. Isn't TOP guilty of the same thing they're crying about Polar being ready to do? No big deal, the plans to roll them are proceeding swimmingly!¹

¹lol

Also,

Expect charges to be filed in the High Court of Wigglage for a repeat offense of Failure to Fail, Fallen Fail.

Sincerely,

Justice Sponge

[Uralica]

Expect charges to be filed in the High Court of Wigglage for a repeat offense of Failure to Fail, Fallen Fail.

Sincerely, Justice Sponge

I don't usually agree with the whole "Fallen Fail" thing, but that cracked me up Sigged.

[hizzy]

For the rest of the folks, you can think what you want, Grämlins arn´t saints nor we are the moral police and of course we aren´t treehugger either. We are what we are, we play the game with our rules and if they don´t fit with yours ... meh, that´s the fun in CN.

About goddamn time. Seriously, 2 respect points for you Mr. Steelrat.

People need to just admit what they're doing and stop trying to cover everything up with some trumped up "pretty" CB. If there's one thing that pisses me off in this game, it's not that alliances go to war for !@#$%* reasons, or even no reasons at all... it's that they do so and then try to cover it up with fake reasons that half the time don't make sense and meanwhile they're sitting there feeling proud of themselves looking like this guy:

That guy makes my blood boil. If there was ever someone who deserved a kick to the voice box it's him. Look at him, sitting there in his !@#$@#$ chair eating a !@#$@#$ croissant and drinking orange juice out of a fancy glass. Hey, Mr.-I-need-to-check-my-stocks-during-breakfast, I hope you spill hot coffee all over your pants ya !@#$%.

[Roadie]

About goddamn time. Seriously, 2 respect points for you Mr. Steelrat.

People need to just admit what they're doing and stop trying to cover everything up with some trumped up "pretty" CB. If there's one thing that pisses me off in this game, it's not that alliances go to war for !@#$%* reasons, or even no reasons at all... it's that they do so and then try to cover it up with fake reasons that half the time don't make sense and meanwhile they're sitting there feeling proud of themselves looking like this guy:

That guy makes my blood boil. If there was ever someone who deserved a kick to the voice box it's him. Look at him, sitting there in his !@#$@#$ chair eating a !@#$@#$ croissant and drinking orange juice out of a fancy glass. Hey, Mr.-I-need-to-check-my-stocks-during-breakfast, I hope you spill hot coffee all over your pants ya !@#$%.

That picture made me so mad I thought for sure it was French.

[hizzy]

That picture made me so mad I thought for sure it was French.

I'm literally angry with rage.

[Penguin]

I'm literally angry with rage.

I know! That red car in the background is making an illegal left turn.