The Heart of Echelon

[Sandwich Controversy]

I wasn't active at the time, but I believe it was 10k tech from MK to Echelon. I'm pretty sure that Echelon initially pushed for white peace as well, but were not in charge of the show. R

Echelon wasn't in charge of demanding tech for itself? What?

[Schattenmann]

Full disclosure: Two of Echelon's leaders took part in extorting $50 million from a former alliance of mine for completely BS reasons, so I don't really care what happens to the alliance as a whole.

Now that I've got that out of the way, I believe all this thread will do is make things more difficult for Echelon as a whole. I doubt that was its intent. Actually, I've no idea what its intent was, except to perhaps garner a bit of sympathy in the wake of the TOP/TSO announcement.

Also, the PM quoted in the OP is completely reasonable.

Keep it coming, guys, we know the "diplomacy" in #echelon-diplomacy over the past two years has been the leadership of Echelon threatening alliances they see as weak-positioned being threatened with the "full might of the BLEU Military Machine" (until, you know, Echelon jumped ships and started riding the 1V Military Machine). Tell your stories, let's see the "heart of Echelon." I prefer my hearts of sycophantic bullies on silver platters garnished with tech.

Echelon wasn't in charge of demanding tech for itself? What?

Makes sense to me. I mean we see alliances like MHA, Gremlins, and TOP being forced to take tech reps in this war.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Heft]

NPO forced you to take our tech. Tragic.

While I don't disagree, I've seen the "NPO made VE and Echelon demand tech from MK" line used tons of times over the last few weeks, I guess to justify how VE are innocent and not at all like those hegemony alliances. So, yea.

[lebubu]

While I don't disagree, I've seen the "NPO made VE and Echelon demand tech from MK" line used tons of times over the last few weeks, I guess to justify how VE are innocent and not at all like those hegemony alliances. So, yea.

Where does this leave TORN and Ordo Recolitus (now part of OV), though?

[Roadie]

Nations over 1k tech have to pay.

I side with GOD on this one. If nations under 1k tech aren't required to pay tech reps, then Echelon won't be prevented from rising up again and dominating the world.

[Heft]

Where does this leave TORN and Ordo Recolitus (now part of OV), though?

I don't know.

My point was that either VE is culpable for those reps or Echelon is not culpable for them, but not both.

[DaJoW]

Right, I'm firing my spreadsheet.

Mixoux's numbers are correct; I rechecked, building the spreadsheet a different way. (Well 74,702.67 actually.)

I'm still not sure if there's a precedent for this. Did the Coalition take half of the tech from Polaris' top nations?

Several of the top 30 were reduced to tech seller status by the time the reps were paid off, with a couple going all the way to 0. Each one paid roughly 2.7k tech on average (and we have always been a tech-light alliance).

[Khyber]

Keep it coming, guys, we know the "diplomacy" in #echelon-diplomacy over the past two years has been the leadership of Echelon threatening alliances they see as weak-positioned being threatened with the "full might of the BLEU Military Machine"

I'm going to ingnore the gab at the end at my alliance because I actually like you Schatt, with that said about you comment above. To be honest many times this diplomacy was carried out without the goverment of Echelon knowing about it and only finding out later. Both Tela and Caffine were given the keys to carry out Echelon's diplomacy but niether were elected by Echelon, having failed to get elected till my last days in Echelon. I even permitted it, simply due to the fact that every time we turned around to ask who can be active on IRC and conduct diplomacy, no one came up, and we were left with no one but them sadly.

They also were the source to much discourse that took place in Echelon. To be honest Ross Garner was suppose to be our FA guy, but his inactivity left Echelon no choice since no others were active on IRC. It was a sad state. Reachwind, those in RLMMO, Sjohp which I believe is in MK now, and many that joined TOP all had serious disagreements with how Caffine and Tela were let loose and how Echelon's FA was closed to anyone else. Thier diplomacy was conducted within Echelon as well with their "shut up and take it" kind of gaming style.

So "leadership" is wrong. And many of their rank and file didn't know what took place either, since this was all behind closed doors.

That is prehaps the only reason I feel bad for some, but like they say "thems the breaks". And I like Mathew a good deal from my days in Echelon, and I truely believe he has bought into the "always honorable Echelon" idea, but like any alliance it has it's flaws, and perhaps Echelon had more then most, so complaining about injustice is probably not good.

Use this as a lesson though, and form a new Echelon from what you have learned from the past.

[Groucho Marx]

I got to page 2 before I just had to stop or risk a permanent face deformation due to the multitude in which my face has met my desk with such violence.

This thread is largely useless

Hey, I agree. This is a poor play for PR against GOD the Almighty. This is heresy. Besides, what GOD asked for is nothing new or even harsh by CN standards so I don't really understand why Echelon is complaining. Maybe they just feel that everyone deserves white peace no matter what the circumstances are during or because of a war much like this. Frankly I don't see how they feel they are entitled to such leniency after what they have done to KaitlynK and before that concerning Polar.

This thread just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Edit: Punctuation error.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Emperor Marx

[x Tela x]

You could perhaps tell the whole story Khyber, but that wouldn't fit your agenda would it?

Sure, I was heavyhanded in a lot of my dealings. I was also very congenial to those that showed me the same respect.

[Shamed]

You could perhaps tell the whole story Khyber, but that wouldn't fit your agenda would it?

Sure, I was heavyhanded in a lot of my dealings. I was also very congenial to those that showed me the same respect.

Respect is given to those who have earned it.

[Archon]

While I don't disagree, I've seen the "NPO made VE and Echelon demand tech from MK" line used tons of times over the last few weeks, I guess to justify how VE are innocent and not at all like those hegemony alliances. So, yea.

Don't worry - we don't really believe or accept that, and we never really have.

[Schattenmann]

I'm going to ingnore the gab at the end at my alliance because I actually like you Schatt, with that said about you comment above. To be honest many times this diplomacy was carried out without the goverment of Echelon knowing about it and only finding out later. Both Tela and Caffine were given the keys to carry out Echelon's diplomacy but niether were elected by Echelon, having failed to get elected till my last days in Echelon. I even permitted it, simply due to the fact that every time we turned around to ask who can be active on IRC and conduct diplomacy, no one came up, and we were left with no one but them sadly.

They also were the source to much discourse that took place in Echelon. To be honest Ross Garner was suppose to be our FA guy, but his inactivity left Echelon no choice since no others were active on IRC. It was a sad state. Reachwind, those in RLMMO, Sjohp which I believe is in MK now, and many that joined TOP all had serious disagreements with how Caffine and Tela were let loose and how Echelon's FA was closed to anyone else. Thier diplomacy was conducted within Echelon as well with their "shut up and take it" kind of gaming style.

So "leadership" is wrong. And many of their rank and file didn't know what took place either, since this was all behind closed doors.

That is prehaps the only reason I feel bad for some, but like they say "thems the breaks". And I like Mathew a good deal from my days in Echelon, and I truely believe he has bought into the "always honorable Echelon" idea, but like any alliance it has it's flaws, and perhaps Echelon had more then most, so complaining about injustice is probably not good.

Use this as a lesson though, and form a new Echelon from what you have learned from the past.

It's unfortunate for Echelon, then, that their past has cought up to them while their FA positioning failed them.

You add depth to the matter, but as Echelon so often supported in its treaties and wars, alliance members vote with their feet. Anybody that stuck around is reaping the whirlwind.

[Barix9]

You could perhaps tell the whole story Khyber, but that wouldn't fit your agenda would it?

Sure, I was heavyhanded in a lot of my dealings. I was also very congenial to those that showed me the same respect.

Translation - I was very respectful to those that bent over, and did as I told them.

[Ludacrism2]

I, and many other Echelon nations, entered this conflict under no false pretenses. We knew it would be tough and we knew from the outset that, barring a miracle, it would result in defeat. I stand before you not as a representative of the Echelon government, nor as someone with any great interest in the ideals or propaganda of either side; I am here as a member of Echelon, someone who has been engaged in conflict for almost 6 weeks because it is the right and just thing - because our continued involvement and defeat is more palatable to us than cowardice.

Most of our opponents understood this and fought accordingly, showing a great deal of respect. They have earned both my respect and that of Echelon in turn; there are perhaps no two clearer examples than TOP and TSO, who's honour and humanity were reflected in both their conduct during the war and the resultant peace.

One alliance who insists on bucking this trend however, as is their sovereign right, is the Global Order of Darkness.

In attempting to subvert our governmental process, and undermining the very peace talks you marshalled, you have exposed your alliance as a despicable and dissatisfied would-be victor, your arrogance is matched only by your stupidity.

You have earned my disapproval and disdain, so rather than filtering through the multitude of messages you will (potentially) receive from my alliance-mates, I feel qualified to respond to you on behalf of the remaining Echelon members, who all share a common ideal, that you appeal to:

No, thank you.

Massive Fail buddy.

I also doubt your entire populace was notified of this message you posted....so don't claim to have the support of your entire alliance with this announcement.

Leaders who lead their nation(alliances in this case) to ruin because of their own pride without a thought of the well-being of the rest are nothing but fail.

[RandomInterrupt]

NPO forced you to take our tech. Tragic.

Sure, Echelon could have refused to take reps. However that would have upset the NPO and caused a ripple in lake One Vision. People without spines can hardly rock the boat.

[x Tela x]

Sure, Echelon could have refused to take reps. However that would have upset the NPO and caused a ripple in lake One Vision. People without spines can hardly rock the boat.

That reminds me of the time I asked Assington for the proof of NADC spy attacks.

[Rush Sykes]

You could perhaps tell the whole story Khyber, but that wouldn't fit your agenda would it?

Sure, I was heavyhanded in a lot of my dealings. I was also very congenial to those that showed me the same respect.

Congenial, seriously? I had exactly one FA dealing with you in the past, it was prior to this reroll. When I was acting president of FINAL, following the Atlantic Empire debacle. As public support against AE began to erode, myself and FINALs acting VP met with 2/3 of the triumvirate of AE, as well as 2 former FINAL then serving as diplomats for AE. The meeting was also mediated by Cairna from Carpe Diem, and I forget who, for Eheclon. A deal was reached...agreed upon by all sides. FINAL left the table thinking that the war was finally behind us. Two days later, after your glorious announcement that you were given dual citizenship in AE and Echelon, and the authority to act in an advisory role for AE in the FA department, I came home from work, only to find an IRC query from you. Seems you wanted to unilaterally re-write the entire agreement that not only we had reached with the actual AE government, but you wanted to do so based on the fact that the Echelon representative at the talks, was inexperienced. Throughout the conversation, you became insistent that, what we and AE both called a PEACE AGREEMENT, was in actuality a surrender by FINAL. You stated to me on several occasions that if I did not succumb to your rewriting of the "terms", that FINAL would still find itself at war with an alliance that we had already agreed on peace with. Heavyhanded? Absolutely. One iota of respect for an innocent alliance facing what the WHOLE world saw was a ******* sham of a war, no. None. Zero. Claim honor through all the lies you want, the vast majority know the truth. I know im off topic, and if Im warned , so be it. Grudge? Yep, I hold it...guilty.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

You must be right. It is in no way like this thread.

The irony of someone from STA posting a private channels FTW message in this situation is... remarkable. (Note that I still think that thread was a good idea on STA's part.)

Aside from the clear differences in the threads, there was no pretense that the thread you linked to was not propaganda. It was quite clearly, Pezstar did not attempt to lie and say it was not, as the OP of this thread did. That is what I was pointing out.

Edit: Oops, apologies for bringing back a post from like 5 pages ago, I was reading through the thread and didn't realize how long it was.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Shodemofi

[Haflinger]

Aside from the clear differences in the threads, there was no pretense that the thread you linked to was not propaganda. It was quite clearly, Pezstar did not attempt to lie and say it was not, as the OP of this thread did. That is what I was pointing out.

Huh? The OP says the poster doesn't have any interest in the propaganda of either side, i.e. Karma or Hegemony.

Whatever this thread is, it isn't Hegemony propaganda.

Now calling it pro-Echelon propaganda, I doubt very few people would argue that.

Edit: Oops, apologies for bringing back a post from like 5 pages ago, I was reading through the thread and didn't realize how long it was.

Yawn, whatever. If people don't want to read replies to old posts, they shouldn't read long threads.

[Delta1212]

I have no interest in propaganda, but the OP came to my house last night and killed my dog.

[Neo Anglia]

I have no interest in propaganda, but the OP came to my house last night and killed my dog.

Bastods! I bet they laughed while doing it too.

[Xavii]

What an disaster of a thread, I have no idea what the OP intended, if he wanted somehow GOD to look bad and Echelon to look like victims, but he failed horribly.

[neneko]

I for one think that the OP is a GOD agent planted in echelon. I think he's doing a fine job making GOD look good too.

also tela a spoiler for you. The alliance losing a war doesn't have alot of leverage in the peace negotiations. From what I've seen from you before I was fairly sure you knew that very well but I guess the memory gets worse with age.

[Leetopia II]

That reminds me of the time I asked Assington for the proof of NADC spy attacks.

Funny how no one chooses to remember this, yet still jump on the "omg u betrayed NpO!!!1" bandwagon any chance they get.