The Heart of Echelon

[WarriorConcept]

I couldn't do a tech deal until I surrendered

I'm at a loss of words other than if you re-engage I don't think you should expect any leniency by those you're fighting.

[Kajdav]

Keep it classy Echelon.

o/ Echelon

[Wu Tang Clan]

Xiphosis writes:

Won't get into this particular argument, save to say that we got into SF on our own merits as well. If we've become the elite, it's not simply because we cuddled up to others who did it. Which, freakily enough, was Tela's point.

And one I also concur with...scary.

LOL LOL LOL LOL. Oh my God, this one will force me to get a new keyboard. You don't find good ole fashioned hypocrisy like this anymore.

o/ Valhalla. You know, that alliance that always did everything on their own, and NEVER got into a bloc because of who they cuddled with. LMFAO.

Oh thank you so much Hal.

[mykep]

Keep it classy Echelon.

o/ Echelon

I already made this joke.

[Mixoux]

And one I also concur with...scary.

LOL LOL LOL LOL. Oh my God, this one will force me to get a new keyboard. You don't find good ole fashioned hypocrisy like this anymore.

o/ Valhalla. You know, that alliance that always did everything on their own, and NEVER got into a bloc because of who they cuddled with. LMFAO.

Oh thank you so much Hal.

He was just agreeing with what Xiph said.

[Azaghul]

You're missing the point. If it would be a faster rebuild for most nations to simply re-roll, then obviously the reps are extreme. May as well use up the nations they've got, burn em to the ground, and start over. That's where this has been heading, with the starting numbers on those reps. If you have any interest in peace, then work towards that as a goal. You can't expect to recoup even a tiny portion of losses in a nuclear conflict, so why bother? Get what you can get out of it and move on.

Only those with a full compliment of wonders would rebuild faster than a well played re-roll.

They lose most of their tech, that is hardly re-roll worthy. In fact it's advantageous in that if you're creating it as you go you have to pay for it. 1000 tech costs about 15-16 million or so if bought and sent 50 at a time (0-50 twenty times). They keep to remaining infra, war chests, improvements, wonders, tech on top of what they send, etc. It also doesn't take 32 nations to send 34,000 tech in a time period 3 months.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Azaghul

[ChairmanHal]

And one I also concur with...scary.

LOL LOL LOL LOL. Oh my God, this one will force me to get a new keyboard. You don't find good ole fashioned hypocrisy like this anymore.

o/ Valhalla. You know, that alliance that always did everything on their own, and NEVER got into a bloc because of who they cuddled with. LMFAO.

Oh thank you so much Hal.

NPO helped out Valhalla in the aftermath of the departure of noWedge. You might even say that they kept Valhalla from getting curbstomped. For that reason, Valhalla felt a certain amount of loyalty to NPO.

Really though, much like \m/ (I'm pretty sure you remember \m/) and other alliances that were associated with NPO over the past 3 years, they took advantage of the play dates that were arranged for them. It was mutually beneficial. Valhalla got to war with reasonable frequency, something they LOVE, and got backed up in the OWF when they trash talked. NPO got first class hitmen and given that NPO tends to go through hitmen like some people go through cars, they needed Valhalla.

Times have changed. People from GOD, Valhalla, and such can agree on things. Valhalla I'm quite sure will in the future still enjoy a good fight, but they'll have to change how they do business.

So I'm sorry that your hypocrisy detector went off. Perhaps in the New Era you should have it recalibrated.

[Matthew Conrad]

I couldn't do a tech deal until I surrendered

This is a propaganda goldmine.

[Caliph]

Hold on there, buckaroo. All of BLEU was told at the time that Polaris had evidence, and they would release it shortly, once it was all put together etc, blah blah.

I remember this line, they said it to the whole OWF at the time, and you and yours fully supported them in the midst of it.

That was an error in judgement, from every alliance in BLEU, for putting faith into our ally. We trusted them and took them at their word and went to war at their side. I only found out for sure AFTER the war, when a Polaris member showed me the proof, where Assington posted to his body republic that they had no evidence, but they "knew it was NADC".

So glad to know you felt so bad about it that Echelon issued an apology and decided to leave the BLEU bloc because of episodes like this. Wait, thats not why Echelon left BLEU ...

Additionally, Echelon has never given any terms that even remotely resemble 400 mil and 35k tech, and certainly not with stupid restrictions on who can send it. That 10k tech from MK is the only thing that's even in the same neighborhood, and as has been said before, when you ride with NPO, you take the good with the bad - Just like all of the Karma alliances that were once allied with NPO have done in the past. When big brother lays down the reps and tells you to take them, you just do it.

If you don't like it, you can always speak up and distance yourself from "big brother". The thing is, you had no qualms supporting them in all that they did, and only now are against such actions because your favorite alliances are on the receiving end of such behavior instead of the dictating end.

^ That's wrong on a fundamental level, but it's how the world worked. If you bunch of d-bags succeed in creating an anarchistic world where there is no proven power at the top calling most of the shots, then that will be a great improvement to the political metagame within planet Bob's system. I'm not optimistic, though. Instead of 1 power, we'll have a handful of powers, and they'll act the same way. Why? Because they can.

Speculation based on propoganda against Karma. Karma never stated to want an anarchist world, they just wanted NPO et all to be on the receiving end for once, instead of issueing beatdown after beatdown with its allies either participating or fully supporting their actions.

Instead of 1 power, we will have more than one power. I am pretty sure you were around when there were multiple powers, and I for one thought those days were better in that you had less of one particular group dictating terms to everyone else. Less increasingly harsh reps, because you didn't want to anger the rest of the world because the military power wasn't just in your camp, but spread out over several alliances and blocs.

To be fair to GOD, they have never rolled with NPO, and only briefly with NpO in the old days before their merge. (IBC represent! A great alliance!) So when they do things their way, they really are doing it their way. They don't have any history like many karma alliances that would point them out to be hypocrites. GOD has stood on their own merits for a long time, without aligning with the elite powers in the world. That is to be respected, for what it's worth.

This whole line about "many Karma alliances are hypocrits" has been spouted before, yet I have yet to see proof that the majority of alliances fighting on Karma's side of this war are hypocrits. Instead, I see increasing behavior for the Hegemony side that is in the blatant hypocritical nature. Perhaps if you could give me a breakdown of all the hypocrit alliances, and then we can tally up the complete number of alliances on Karma's side and see if there are indeed more than half that you can claim are hypocrits. We can also go through that list and most likely debunk several of those as non hypocrits if we examine the events surrounding this war.

You're still a bunch of d-bags, though.

Heh, well I don't consider you to be that word, I just think that your bias here allows you to overlook an abundance of bad behavior and poor treatment of others for the past 2 years on the part of your former alliance. And that, my dear, is the very definition of hypocricy.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Caliph

[Stormsend]

I couldn't do a tech deal until I surrendered

I spent 15 minutes thinking of a witty reply, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt. Also, a migraine.

[Leetopia II]

I'm at a loss of words other than if you re-engage I don't think you should expect any leniency by those you're fighting.

Actually I'm quite fine with (some) reps, if need be. This was just merely needed so I could continue to exist. If you actually bothered to look at my nation you'd see I couldn't fight anymore, even if I wanted to.

Edit: and if you really want to complain about stuff then look at all the PoW's actually buying tech. I fought until I couldn't fight anymore, and now I'm simply looking to stabilize myself. There are tons of real cowards out there that didn't want anything to happen to their precious nations and went to hide in the safety of the PoW AA.

So I have no shame in what I'm doing, and the PR that might result from this has no relevance to Echelon since I've not even actually been a member for a few weeks now. So my situation "in the alliance" was unique. I could go on, but what's the point, no one would care anyways.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Leetopia II

[R&R-Viking]

no one would care anyways.

p.much

It's always good to think of your own nation in game while strongly defending those you abandoned on the OWF.

[Barix9]

Actually I'm quite fine with (some) reps, if need be. This was just merely needed so I could continue to exist. If you actually bothered to look at my nation you'd see I couldn't fight anymore, even if I wanted to.

Edit: and if you really want to complain about stuff then look at all the PoW's actually buying tech. I fought until I couldn't fight anymore, and now I'm simply looking to stabilize myself. There are tons of real cowards out there that didn't want anything to happen to their precious nations and went to hide in the safety of the PoW AA.

So I have no shame in what I'm doing, and the PR that might result from this has no relevance to Echelon since I've not even actually been a member for a few weeks now. So my situation "in the alliance" was unique. I could go on, but what's the point, no one would care anyways.

haha, I've seen nations much worse off than yours be rebuilt in a mater of days.

Way to drop flag and run at the first sign of anything close to the destruction you deserve.

[Barix9]

I'm not sure how you can prove what you think that they thought. That's probably a good reason not to go around claiming something that's just not true, isn't it?

I quite liked this one, the whole "what you think they thought" is wrong thought crime mentality, is great coming from someone who obviously spends the day completely devoid of any rational, or useful thought that does not involve Hypocrisy, or some sort of falsity(it’s a word, I looked it up). Way to tell people to do the exact opposite of you, it's actually quite smart considering the great nations of OWF have shot you down at every turn.

[Solidus117]

Way to drop flag and run at the first sign of anything close to the destruction you deserve.

Leetopia was ejected from Echelon as pursuant to Echelon's anti-rogue policy. Try harder next time Barix.

[Barix9]

Leetopia was ejected from Echelon as pursuant to Echelon's anti-rogue policy. Try harder next time Barix.

Im sorry, you're right. I was trying out the echelon point of view, you know always being wrong and such.

[Solidus117]

Im sorry, you're right. I was trying out the echelon point of view, you know always being wrong and such.

Wow, what a zinger!

[Bob Janova]

If he's a rogue then presumably he is still being rolled and therefore can't do a tech deal anyway?

I don't understand what's so bad about the message displayed in the OP. Propaganda is a part of war and of getting surrenders, and what GOD are doing there is very respectful propaganda.

[Amoshu]

I agree with Matt and support this message 100%.

Echelon has never acted uncivil or without honor. We expected the same from all our opponents, however its clear that we expected too much of GOD.

Mmm. I remember a different feeling from you, Memoryproblems. But then again, you may have some memoryproblems.

in #ttk;

(12:08:46 AM) memoryproblems: greetings guys

(12:08:54 AM) KingC[TTK]: hello

(12:09:13 AM) memoryproblems: so about your whole "nuke us and we nuke your thing" - i forgot to listen.

(12:09:56 AM) KingC[TTK]: ?

(12:09:59 AM) memoryproblems: but its not cuz i don't like you guys

(12:10:04 AM) memoryproblems: just cuz thats the way things are.

(12:10:16 AM) memoryproblems: in TTK's DoW there was a note about nukes

(12:10:21 AM) KingC[TTK]: ya

(12:10:28 AM) mode (+v thatperson[GOD]) by ChanServ

(12:10:33 AM) KingC[TTK]: It was about not being first strike I blieve

(12:10:37 AM) KingC[TTK]: believe*

(12:10:39 AM) memoryproblems: yeah

(12:10:43 AM) memoryproblems: well... needless to say.

(12:10:47 AM) memoryproblems: i forgot.

(12:10:48 AM) KMBanana[Echelon]: shhhhhhhhh

(12:10:49 AM) Aurion[GOD]: He nuked a TTKer, tl;dr

(12:10:52 AM) Aurion[GOD]: Norada (spaceruler15) of the Maroon team of the alliance The Templar Knights was attacked with a nuclear weapon by Leninland (memoryproblems) of the Blue team of the alliance Echelon on 4/26/2009 11:08:27 PM.

(12:10:54 AM) Amoshi[GOD]: O_o;

(12:10:58 AM) memoryproblems: haha

(12:11:00 AM) memoryproblems: welcome to war guys

its no lie that some players of this game have no sense of humor. That particular propaganda was made completely in fun and games, and never has Echelon ever published any propaganda formed with malice aforethought. Echelon has always acted with poise and honor and tried to stay on the right side of the line of whats appropriate and whats not appropriate. To compare NoFish's actions with that of Echelon's The Body Bag are like comparing poodles and great bernards. There is no comparision.

Regardless of what Echelon may have done in the past, we never sank to the levels of which NoFish did tonight, and besides, two wrongs never make a right, sinking down to their level makes you just as bad, etc. I can for one say that I'm very disappointed in NoFish's actions tonight and was saddened he stooped to this level.

I did succumb to my sense of humour in that channel. ='/ I wasn't very proud of it at the time. Now? Oh yeah.

(12:11:01 AM) Amoshi[GOD]: You have memoryproblems, memoryproblems?

(12:11:06 AM) KingC[TTK]: Ah your the guy who got space

(12:11:13 AM) Amoshi[GOD]: s'fine.

(12:11:28 AM) Amoshi[GOD]: El Casa del Daiblo (El Hefe) of the Blue team of the alliance Echelon was attacked with a nuclear weapon by Mysidia (Amoshi) of the Maroon team of the alliance Global Order of Darkness on 4/26/2009 11:09:23 PM.

(12:11:34 AM) Amoshi[GOD]: I don't suffer the same obligations.

[SonOfHoward]

What's this I hear? Honour and humanity?

This can't be the same Echelon that posted that thread a while back that ended up with 2 warns, 2 bans, being locked at one point, and Admin editing the OP for containing obscene subject matter relating to another CN player? (http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55403&hl=echelon&st=120)

To think we've already forgotten about that is insulting.

What GOD did is nowhere near as dishonourable and dispicable as that.

[Barix9]

What's this I hear? Honour and humanity?

This can't be the same Echelon that posted that thread a while back that ended up with 2 warns, 2 bans, being locked at one point, and Admin editing the OP for containing obscene subject matter relating to another CN player? (http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55403&hl=echelon&st=120)

To think we've already forgotten about that is insulting.

What GOD did is nowhere near as dishonourable and dispicable as that.

BOOM HEADSHOT

SonofHoward wins the thread, echelon was never in the running for this one.

[R&R-Viking]

hilarity

this is really awesome

[Death666Angel]

Yes that's really what we intend to do believe it or not we want your peace mode warriors to pay for their crimes too, not only those that actually fought.

Also I hope Xiph is adding 1k tech to the reps for every flame. We'd be rich.

If the OP posting of GOD's propaganda is true, I don't get it. Here is Echelon on the verge of annihilation, and they are quibbling over those with 1K tech paying the reps? Why then did Echelon keep nations in Peace Mode throughout the war? The purpose of Hippy during the war is to allow for rebuilding and reps. If Echelon is crying about those nations paying the piper, as it has long been SOP for those defeated in warfare, Why keep them in Hippy? Was the Infra THAT MUCH MORE important to them than friendship and honor?

If you can show me that to be true by monitoring our peace mode nations pre war, during war and post war, I would maybe see your point. As it stands, you are absolutely talking out of your $@! if you think that "above 1k tech means they must have been !@#$%*^ who sat this war out". If you want peace mode nations to pay reps send us a list of the peace mode nations and we will consider it pending the reason of their sitting this war out (we have had deaths and tragic illnesses among family members as reason, so pardon us if we don't condemn them for staying in peace then).

Hardly. 35K tech can be regained within a few months, if that. That's 700 aid packages / 85 members = 8 deals per member. That can be accomplished in, what, a few cycles?

You act like we're asking for something you couldn't possibly handle. Sounds to me like you're underestimating your alliance a little.

Did I say we cannot do this? No. Did I say this would cripple the nations in our alliance most capable of fighting a war which we do not like? Yus. Did I say the reasons the opposition gave us were bogus? Yes.

Everyone knows, it would just be unwise to give Echelon a chance to stand back up. Those guys are insane, and man they never let go of grudges! If you don't crush them now, they will absolutely end you. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next month, but eventually. And a year from now, when you are being crushed underfoot while Echelon laughs maniacally and chases the last of your life away, you'll think back on this moment, when you so very nearly had them in your grip and let them go, and you'll cry out. But it will be too late. It will be over.

Don't let Echelon stand again, they're just too dangerous.

The essence of Echelon, thanks man !

Edit: just to make sure: I don't think there is anything wrong with the message shown in the OP. They have every right to that. But since we are beyond the OP already, I thought I would stay in this discussion .

Edited June 1, 2009 by Death666Angel

[Wu Tang Clan]

NPO helped out Valhalla in the aftermath of the departure of noWedge. You might even say that they kept Valhalla from getting curbstomped. For that reason, Valhalla felt a certain amount of loyalty to NPO.

Really though, much like \m/ (I'm pretty sure you remember \m/) and other alliances that were associated with NPO over the past 3 years, they took advantage of the play dates that were arranged for them. It was mutually beneficial. Valhalla got to war with reasonable frequency, something they LOVE, and got backed up in the OWF when they trash talked. NPO got first class hitmen and given that NPO tends to go through hitmen like some people go through cars, they needed Valhalla.

Times have changed. People from GOD, Valhalla, and such can agree on things. Valhalla I'm quite sure will in the future still enjoy a good fight, but they'll have to change how they do business.

So I'm sorry that your hypocrisy detector went off. Perhaps in the New Era you should have it recalibrated.

So, you're saying that Valhalla riding NPO's coattails is more justified because NPO saved your $@!. Where as since GOD used diplomacy to get into SF, and that's them mooching off their friends.

Right...

Edited for clarity.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Wu Tang Clan

[Leetopia II]

If he's a rogue then presumably he is still being rolled and therefore can't do a tech deal anyway?

I don't understand what's so bad about the message displayed in the OP. Propaganda is a part of war and of getting surrenders, and what GOD are doing there is very respectful propaganda.

Well considering the people I'm dealing with are the people that I went rogue on I'd say things are fine.