Joint Announcement from The Sweet Oblivion and The Order of the Paradox

[terveis]

Because their leadership is saying that isn't the case.

.

I guess being in the Citadel doesn't make you especially privy to their inner workings or being the ultimate authority in regards to all things TOP.

Where did i say that Echelon/others they attacked were friends with them?

I only said that they had friends on both sides, and do you disagree with that?

But yeah, its best if i just go to bed now. Good luck on bashing TOP all!

[President Obama]

I guess being in the Citadel doesn't make you especially privy to their inner workings or being the ultimate authority in regards to all things TOP.

He wasn't talking about the alliances that TOP was directly engaged with.

Both sides of the war means something different.

[Crymson]

Because their leadership is saying that isn't the case.

.

I guess being in the Citadel doesn't make you especially privy to their inner workings or being the ultimate authority in regards to all things TOP.

I believe you misunderstood my post; I referred only to those alliances with whom we were militarily engaged, not to all alliances on the Hegemony side.

[SoxNation]

Then why the trouble with the white peace?

Well, I thought that alliances involved in wars get a say in peace terms? Or do they have to tow the line? What various hegemony alliances have received white peace due to TOP?

No, good sir, and this is where I get annoyed. You and your ilk started tearing Karma apart. Your people started attacking Karma alliances in public, despite a private location to do so. Your friends are marching around as though they are Hegemony incarnate, dare any alliance or member challenge their desire. You, and the rest like you, cannot simply "forget" when you have thrown the first stones. There is a distinct different between attacking "coalition mates" for little reason and declaring a lack of cooperation as a cause for exiting war. Various members of CnG, SF, Chestnut, and others hold the SOLE responsibility for initiating the hate fest that has taken place on these boards. You cannot sit here and plead for unity when you are causing the disunity. You cannot state a war is ongoing and demand cooperation when you do the opposite.

Most of all, good sir, you cannot dare interpret what Heracles said as a threat of ZI when your OWN foreign affairs leader stated that opinions being voiced will "do no good for your alliances in the future". Not once, no sir, multiple times. I am absolutely tired of the double standard here. You folks threw the first stones, and continue to throw them in public for little reason. You cannot complain and cry "foul" when those stones are thrown back with good cause and in retaliation.

I fear for this new world, as it appears we've installed the blood thirsty, power hungry trolls into a position of power.

Except the other dozens of people who claimed what you also claimed.

Please, do not embarass yourself by trying to paint me as a puppet of TOP either. There is more than enough evidence, and most likely personal testimonies, to state otherwise. I'm saving you the trouble of further making yourself look foolish.

TOP and Nizzle are like Oil and Water..

How long did that one thread get?

[NoFish]

Nice edit there.

I think it's fair though, you want payback from past wars, well we could give back all the tech we've ever gotten from wars. Buuuuut you guys wouldn't be happy with only a couple thousand tech, now would you? We're less than half the size we were back then, a lot of the people that benefited from those wars are long gone, and "karma" comes knocking on the doors of people that had nothing to do with it looking for exorbitant reps.

You're welcome to keep trying your offers, but they aren't going to accept something ridiculous.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1575647

Jus' sayin'.

[Blacky]

Where did i say that Echelon/others they attacked were friends with them?

I only said that they had friends on both sides, and do you disagree with that?

So you're saying they're trying to make sure their friends, who they were not at war with "make it out alive"? Does that conclude their involvement in this war? Ensuring their friends in the Hegemony, who they were not at war with, make it out alive?

Please explain how this is not an act of sabotage? Otherwise concede it was a misunderstanding and you are not the ultimate authority in regards to all things TOP.

Good luck on bashing TOP all!

Are you serious? This announcement was made to bash those Karma alliances who fought alongside TOP and TSO. Not vice versa.

edit: grammar xD

Edited May 31, 2009 by Blacky

[Nizzle]

TOP and Nizzle are like Oil and Water..

How long did that one thread get?

One thread? haha. You know, some people actually argue the NpO War with me like I was in favor of it.

[Nizzle]

Are you serious? This announcement was made to bash those Karma alliances who fought alongside TOP and TSO. Not vice versa.

edit: grammar xD

No, the RoK thread was made to bash people. This thread clearly lists the reason for them leaving the war prior to everyone else.

EDIT: Which some of you may disagree with (the reasons for leaving), but it clear isn't in the same boat as that other thread I mentioned.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Nizzle

[President Obama]

Are you serious? This announcement was made to bash those Karma alliances who fought alongside TOP and TSO. Not vice versa.

Or you know, it was made to acknowledge the ending of hostilities between TOP/TSO and Echelon. Endings to wars usually get their own thread on the forums.

[terveis]

So you're saying they're trying to make sure their friends, who they were not at war with "make it out alive"? Does that conclude their involvement in this war? Ensuring their friends in the Hegemony, who they were not at war with, make it out alive?

Please explain how this is not an act of sabotage? Otherwise concede it was a misunderstanding and you are not the ultimate authority in regards to all things TOP.

One question, did you think FCC was sabotaging karmas war effort, when we spoke on behalf OG when they were getting peace? If no, why is it so much different that TOP might do the same for their friends?

[Nizzle]

One question, did you think FCC was sabotaging karmas war effort, when we spoke on behalf OG when they were getting peace? If no, why is it so much different that TOP might do the same for their friends?

I've already explained this, and it should be becoming quickly clear to everyone.

Those aligned against Hegemony alliances desire them all to be stomped out. Unfortunately, they had to split them. They have done so, letting some "slip away". After the end of this war, they will come after the ones they feel "got away". That is why there is such a focus on TOP.

EDIT: Bring the tinfoil, I'm trying to compete with WC here.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Nizzle

[SoxNation]

One thread? haha. You know, some people actually argue the NpO War with me like I was in favor of it.

I think we both annoyed TOP a bit in that thread

[Archon]

What is amazing here is how at first TOP had some terrible PR going, and were doing quite a piss-poor job controlling it. Then a couple of people came and turned it around for them, despite not even being in their alliance, due to subpar posting and poor quality attacks. It's funny how things can work out.

[R&R-Viking]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1575647

Jus' sayin'.

well yeah, its much easier to armchair general a war when you remove yourself from danger

Edited May 31, 2009 by Viking

[Essenia]

What is amazing here is how at first TOP had some terrible PR going, and were doing quite a piss-poor job controlling it. Then a couple of people came and turned it around for them, despite not even being in their alliance, due to subpar posting and poor quality attacks. It's funny how things can work out.

I am actively and fully investigating those people for sabotaging TOP's bad PR campaign.

[neneko]

I think TSO and TOP could have kept their reasons for dropping out private instead of casting accusations on alliances they fought alongside with in public, especially when it seems like the reasons were based more on speculations from TOP and TSO rather than any facts.

[Nizzle]

What is amazing here is how at first TOP had some terrible PR going, and were doing quite a piss-poor job controlling it. Then a couple of people came and turned it around for them, despite not even being in their alliance, due to subpar posting and poor quality attacks. It's funny how things can work out.

I'm quoting your post out of convenience.

How can anyone believe TOP did this as a PR stunt when it would be obvious, despite seeing how it turned out, that this would be unpopular? They went against the blood thirsty masses. I hardly consider that a PR stunt.

[Nizzle]

I think TSO and TOP could have kept their reasons for dropping out private instead of casting accusations on alliances they fought alongside with in public, especially when it seems like the reasons were based more on speculations from TOP and TSO rather than any facts.

Same question right back at the alliances crying foul. Why can they not keep anything negative private?

EDIT: There is more of a reason for TOP/TSO to reveal their reason for leaving, as it would have turned into a flame fest demanding to know why in the end regardless.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Nizzle

[Xiphosis]

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

Don't throw stones on behalf of others, either. The only people in the world who have any legit basis to be pissed about what GOD did in UJW with regards to Polaris are RandomInterrupt, Assington, MyWorld and ES. They know, and saw first hand, what went down. They know it wasn't done out of some sort of farking malice for Polar. I stressed OOC for months trying to get GOONs and Polar to come to the table and at the end of the day, I had good friends telling me they were scared out of their minds because they were about to be blitzed, so I made the call.

Our original plan was neutrality. We had MADP's with \m/, GOONS, MK and Polaris. But neutrality is unbearable when you have legit friends you, you know, don't want to see burned to the ground - especially not by the likes of Norden Verein, of all people. And guess what, AUT? We lost. We lost, and furthermore, we got hunted for it.

I can't tell you how many times BLEU folks interceded to make situations they weren't involved in hard, just to spite us. I can't tell you how many times allies of mine had told me, prior to the BLEU war, that they'd be threatened or asked to drop us.

So don't even whine about us attacking CCC. We hit them for four days, let them off, and defended Polaris as much as possible on the forums when people started accusing them of crap they didn't do. And don't pull the history card on someone like me unless you intend to back your lies up. We considered Polaris a threat because they threatened us - we did our piece, dismantled their power so they couldn't hit us, then left them alone. I beg anyone to come forward with anything showing me being spiteful to NpO at any point in time.

Picking a side in UJW was one of the most gut wrenching decisions I've ever made on this game. Don't you dare go there unless you're willing to go there, kay?

[cowen70]

Then why the trouble with the white peace?

I believe the trouble is with the supposed moral outrage not the white peace.

Well, I thought that alliances involved in wars get a say in peace terms? Or do they have to tow the line? What various hegemony alliances have received white peace due to TOP?

See above.

No, good sir, and this is where I get annoyed. You and your ilk started tearing Karma apart. Your people started attacking Karma alliances in public, despite a private location to do so. Your friends are marching around as though they are Hegemony incarnate, dare any alliance or member challenge their desire. You, and the rest like you, cannot simply "forget" when you have thrown the first stones. There is a distinct different between attacking "coalition mates" for little reason and declaring a lack of cooperation as a cause for exiting war. Various members of CnG, SF, Chestnut, and others hold the SOLE responsibility for initiating the hate fest that has taken place on these boards. You cannot sit here and plead for unity when you are causing the disunity. You cannot state a war is ongoing and demand cooperation when you do the opposite.

Most of all, good sir, you cannot dare interpret what Heracles said as a threat of ZI when your OWN foreign affairs leader stated that opinions being voiced will "do no good for your alliances in the future". Not once, no sir, multiple times. I am absolutely tired of the double standard here. You folks threw the first stones, and continue to throw them in public for little reason. You cannot complain and cry "foul" when those stones are thrown back with good cause and in retaliation.

I fear for this new world, as it appears we've installed the blood thirsty, power hungry trolls into a position of power.

Who made the OP?

I'm not really involved but most of your statements didn't seem to have a whole lot to do with what the people who are posting substantive cases for hypocricy are saying.

[Aurion]

I'm quoting your post out of convenience.

How can anyone believe TOP did this as a PR stunt when it would be obvious, despite seeing how it turned out, that this would be unpopular? They went against the blood thirsty masses. I hardly consider that a PR stunt.

I think the people saying it's a PR move are referring to the moral superiority argument.

I have no idea how TOP conducted themselves or didn't conduct themselves in times past, so I'm not going to argue about it myself.

[Chickenzilla]

In that case, let the world bow to it's new master... RV - So cool, he doesn't need proof, his word is enough...

At least you recognize how awesome he is. Some people don't believe RV, and that is why they fail.

[Sandwich Controversy]

Don't throw stones on behalf of others, either. The only people in the world who have any legit basis to be pissed about what GOD did in UJW with regards to Polaris are RandomInterrupt, Assington, MyWorld and ES. They know, and saw first hand, what went down. They know it wasn't done out of some sort of farking malice for Polar. I stressed OOC for months trying to get GOONs and Polar to come to the table and at the end of the day, I had good friends telling me they were scared out of their minds because they were about to be blitzed, so I made the call.

Our original plan was neutrality. We had MADP's with \m/, GOONS, MK and Polaris. But neutrality is unbearable when you have legit friends you, you know, don't want to see burned to the ground - especially not by the likes of Norden Verein, of all people. And guess what, AUT? We lost. We lost, and furthermore, we got hunted for it.

I can't tell you how many times BLEU folks interceded to make situations they weren't involved in hard, just to spite us. I can't tell you how many times allies of mine had told me, prior to the BLEU war, that they'd be threatened or asked to drop us.

So don't even whine about us attacking CCC. We hit them for four days, let them off, and defended Polaris as much as possible on the forums when people started accusing them of crap they didn't do. And don't pull the history card on someone like me unless you intend to back your lies up. We considered Polaris a threat because they threatened us - we did our piece, dismantled their power so they couldn't hit us, then left them alone. I beg anyone to come forward with anything showing me being spiteful to NpO at any point in time.

Picking a side in UJW was one of the most gut wrenching decisions I've ever made on this game. Don't you dare go there unless you're willing to go there, kay?

I love you.

[Blacky]

I believe you misunderstood my post; I referred only to those alliances with whom we were militarily engaged, not to all alliances on the Hegemony side.

So basically you're confirming what we've thought all along. Your involvement in this war was to ensure your "friends on the other side" namely your Hegemony friends get off lightly. Nobody wasn't going to make it out alive.

One question, did you think FCC was sabotaging karmas war effort, when we spoke on behalf OG when they were getting peace? If no, why is it so much different that TOP might do the same for their friends?

Not in the least considering FCC's involvement in the war effort and Karma as a whole was clear. There were no secret agendas to get off their friends lightly.

Endings to wars usually get their own thread on the forums.

They had threatened to do similar earlier had they not gotten their way. This was obviously part of a smear campaign ranging from inflating offered rep amounts to threatening seperate peace offers for not having the ultimate say in regards to peace negotiations and surrender terms.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Blacky

[HeinousOne]

Cropped my $@!. I told bigwoody precisely what I was told by Moo-Cows. It is not my responsibility or desire to check with Moo-Cows to see if he had informed his ally before talking to me. What bigwoody did from there was of his own volition, and I will not go into that.

Ok, so maybe bad word choice. Did you show Woody every bit of logged material? I understand why you wouldnt wish to go any further into what Woody did, but it is a pretty big deal and would change exactly how people viewed a very serious event that happened right before the war blew up.