shahenshah Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 One will lead to eternal war and the other won't. Same choice they offered FAN. See how that ended . Uh, after that they then get a chance to rebuild. If not, they don't. Both choices suck for them, obviously, but fighting it out, taking terms, and then being able to move on is far better than a war with no forseeable end. and the only difference is 'personal opinions' and they should trust you guys on it? Whats the harm in writing it all down on the paper... - 1.If you come out of peace mode..ABCD are your War reps. 2.If you dont come out of peace mode, WXYZ are your War reps. - For outsiders like me, not presenting them the reps actually means ABCD and WXYZ are same terms with perhaps marginal difference only. I just have a gut feeling NPO thinks the same. The only difference between ABCD and WXYZ are the ''personal opinions" of certain people on OWF forums...and the only thing that personal opinions suggest are 'there is going to be a difference'...that can mean many things.. There's a difference between lets say for e.g. 500k tech and 499.9k tech..there's a difference between 500k tech and 250k tech. So those personal opinions are laughable and they suggest nothing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) If the reps get too big which will take a while, they could be reduced or capped, not dropped. Either way NPO screwed itself over not only because the terms will still be harder but also by prolonging the war longer than it needed to be for them. There's a first tacit admission that pre-term plan falls apart after certain days. you are prolonging the war after not offering them terms...its because Either you guys haven't come up with them, or there is little or no difference between the terms if they come out of peace mode or they don't, in which case, they have no reason to come out of peace mode...and the pre-terms will become a political liability after some time. They know it and you admitted it indirectly. Edited May 31, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 I fail to see how it's backfired at all. Instead of us assuring NPO's destruction, we allow them to do it to themselves. Seems like a pretty good way of accomplishing my vision of Karma. Your own allies in this war are turning against you, thats how its backfired. If you really believe you are not doing this that they are then you have lost the plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poet Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 So you agree your plan fails after certain amount of time. Why would this inherently mean the plan had failed? Please answer my question this time. Maybe start off with what you think the original plan with the reps was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poet Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Your own allies in this war are turning against you, thats how its backfired. If you really believe you are not doing this that they are then you have lost the plot. Which of the alliances currently at war with NPO have allies turning against them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Your own allies in this war are turning against you, thats how its backfired. If you really believe you are not doing this that they are then you have lost the plot. If you would kindly check my earlier posts explaining the ties between the alliances on the NPO front, I would greatly appreciate it; or you could ignore them and continue on without seeing the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 If you would kindly check my earlier posts explaining the ties between the alliances on the NPO front, I would greatly appreciate it; or you could ignore them and continue on without seeing the truth. There were no isolated fronts in the war, anyone from Karma in the war was allowed (if they wanted) to attack anyone on the other side. You cant turn around now and pretend its not all one group, one front. People who shared your ideals in this war and fought side by side with you have turned their backs on you in disgust at what you have become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Why would this inherently mean the plan had failed? Please answer my question this time. Maybe start off with what you think the original plan with the reps was. Because it has completely failed to achieve the objective it was made for, to force NPO nations out of peace mode. People on your side have clearly indicated it was not a tool for extortion and even that they'll put a limit to its absurdity if it comes to that. The failure or pre terms have began to unfold. NPO scores another one by staying peace mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o ya baby Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Because it has completely failed to achieve the objective it was made for, to force NPO nations out of peace mode. People on your side have clearly indicated it was not a tool for extortion and even that they'll put a limit to its absurdity if it comes to that. The failure or pre terms have began to unfold. NPO scores another one by staying peace mode. Funny thing is, they lose either way! They stay in peace mode forever, who cares?! They become irrelevant! They come out and get pounded, hurray! They become irrelevant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poet Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 There were no isolated fronts in the war, anyone from Karma in the war was allowed (if they wanted) to attack anyone on the other side. You cant turn around now and pretend its not all one group, one front. People who shared your ideals in this war and fought side by side with you have turned their backs on you in disgust at what you have become. There blatantly were isolated fronts in the war, the peace terms for all alliances have shown this. And I do believe CCC was the only alliance to wage an unsanctioned war on Karma's side while the war was still being organized centrally, so no, not anyone from Karma could wage war with anyone 'if they wanted' - MHA proved this by attacking any random band wagoners. Because it has completely failed to achieve the objective it was made for, to force NPO nations out of peace mode. People on your side have clearly indicated it was not a tool for extortion and even that they'll put a limit to its absurdity if it comes to that. The failure or pre terms have began to unfold. NPO scores another one by staying peace mode. It wasn't designed to force NPO nations out of peace mode. It was simply letting NPO know the consequences of leaving nations in peace mode. Fairly simple. It hasn't changed if or when surrender terms will be presented to NPO at all. If a limit needs to be put on the condition at some point then so be it. That doesn't mean the condition failed, it just means it is no longer necessary, as NPO will have been punished enough for leaving nations in peace mode - what the condition was designed for in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) There blatantly were isolated fronts in the war, the peace terms for all alliances have shown this. And I do believe CCC was the only alliance to wage an unsanctioned war on Karma's side while the war was still being organized centrally, so no, not anyone from Karma could wage war with anyone 'if they wanted' - MHA proved this by attacking any random band wagoners. You must have missed the DF DoW where pretty much everyone made it quite clear that anyone on the Karma side could attack anyone on the other side even if they had no treaty or CB simply because they were on the opposite side of the Karma war. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56818 On this day, the alliance of Dark Fist, would like to issue declaration of war on the Nusantara Elite Warriors. The reason for the war is pretty simple; We're on one side, they're on another...of the same war. We got word that some alliances fighting NEW could use some backup, and so we're going to provide it. DF is not an alliance which needs a piece of paper as an excuse to do what's right and help out some friends. Edited May 31, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poet Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 You must have missed the DF DoW where pretty much everyone made it quite clear that anyone on the Karma side could attack anyone on the other side even if they had no treaty or CB simply because they were on the opposite side of the Karma war. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56818 I do believe this is after Karma central had split up, feel free to clarify that with LM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 There were no isolated fronts in the war, anyone from Karma in the war was allowed (if they wanted) to attack anyone on the other side. You cant turn around now and pretend its not all one group, one front. People who shared your ideals in this war and fought side by side with you have turned their backs on you in disgust at what you have become. Huh, I completely forgot the part wherein my government told me I could attack any alliance I wished to. We played by treaty rules and, because you lost, you whine and moan about your ineptitude. Feel free to show me any significant disagreement among the alliances fighting NPO. Oh that's right, you can't. Also, you avoided my point and evidence pointing towards our treaty ties. Please continue ignoring facts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 You must have missed the DF DoW where pretty much everyone made it quite clear that anyone on the Karma side could attack anyone on the other side even if they had no treaty or CB simply because they were on the opposite side of the Karma war. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56818 By everyone, did you mean you? Forget about a treaty or CB for your DoW Karma dont even need a reason to attack anyone they want, membership to the block is good enough. This will be saved for a rainy day when alliances in Karma are complaining about a weak CB as karma comes back on them, new rules no treaty at all necessary, no CB at all necessary. I love the "Cue whining" line, thats a keeper too. You will reap what you sew, you are now a genuine power bloc that does what it wants and crushes people not on your side of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 By everyone, did you mean you? I complained about it I didnt agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) I complained about it I didnt agree with it. Yours was the first (and only?) post to say that anyone in Karma could attack any other alliance they want. And now you're citing that thread as proof that "everyone made it quite clear that anyone on the Karma side could attack anyone on the other side" when the everyone in question seems to be only you. I think you linked general approval of DF's DoW to Karma as a whole without cause. Edited May 31, 2009 by Teriethien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 And now... NPO passes 300 nations in peace mode. Yeah I'd say this measure did not have the desired effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 And now... NPO passes 300 nations in peace mode.Yeah I'd say this measure did not have the desired effect. Depends on what the desired effect is/was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahnite Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Seeing how Karma is the alliance founded on hypocrisy, I would say they got what they wanted, eternal war, since peace was an unobtainable lie. Edited May 31, 2009 by Kahnite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Depends on what the desired effect is/was. The claimed desired effect was for the NPO to bring nations out of peace mode so they could get killed properly. Now I've been accused of being paranoid enough but I actually think this was the truth. I don't see what benefit the coalition gains from NPO moving its nations into dove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Seeing how Karma is the alliance founded on hypocrisy, I would say they got what they wanted, eternal war, since peace was an unobtainable lie. Open your eyes, geez. You hegemony folk are whinging and bleating the same arguments over and over. NPO is the one prolonging the war currently, the 'unobtainable lie' of peace is within your grasp if you buck up and swallow your medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Before long you will see Free NPO in sigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Before long you will see Free NPO in sigs. Naw no one cares about them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahnite Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Open your eyes, geez. You hegemony folk are whinging and bleating the same arguments over and over. NPO is the one prolonging the war currently, the 'unobtainable lie' of peace is within your grasp if you buck up and swallow your medicine. Pity how logic gets in the way of propaganda. Fact, its better for them to stay in peace mode than agree with mathematically challenged figures, and that only covers the ones that have been released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Pity how logic gets in the way of propaganda. Fact, its better for them to stay in peace mode than agree with mathematically challenged figures, and that only covers the ones that have been released. In the war of the coalition, Complaints and Grievances expected nothing less then ZI for every nation as punishment from the hegemony and still fought the war, we did not hide in peace mode. CnG received harsh reps that were not a choice and managed to pay them off and here we are now beating you down. We expected worse retribution from reps then you guys do now, face it, your cowards and you deserve no sympathy for being cowards and not having the spine to receive what you have dished out multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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