Announcement from the Tahoe Republic

[Manetheren]

The Tahoe Republic is pleased to announce that as of 12:00 Noon, local time, the autonomous region of Gibraltar has been transfered to the nation of Gebiv. All rights and responsibilities the Tahoe Republic may have had is now transfered to Gebiv, who has full sovereign rights over Gibraltar.

We would take this time to reiterate our stance on decolonization. While Gibraltar cannot have been considered a colony, it was a military base occupied by the former Ferrous Pacific alliance with no economic value to Tahoe, it still presented the problem of an American nation involving itself in European affairs. While we recognized this problem, a satisfactory solution did not present itself until bilateral discussions between Gebiv and the Tahoe Republic finally yielded fruit. This was not an easy solution for us, traditionally Gebiv and Tahoe, despite having similar economic policies have never seen eye to eye on world affairs and have indeed fought numerous wars on opposite sides of each other, culminating in an all out invasion of Gebiv in years past. But we can move on from our differences, and our united feelings toward colonies made this a quite simple solution, really. The exact terms of the treaty are for Gebiv and Tahoe alone (this is not due to any secret terms or the like, our people simply feel no need to publish what exactly was discussed in our talks), the actual affects are simple. Gibraltar is now sovereign territory of Gebiv. All Tahoan civilians and military personnel will withdraw as soon as possible. The Strait of Gibraltar is open to Tahoan vessels, civilian and military at all times.

It is refreshing to see old grudges being forgiven.

It is good to see a united front against colonies.

Signed for Gebiv,

Princess Gebiv IV

Signed for the Tahoe Republic,

President Sean O'Deaghaidh

[Subtleknifewielder]

"This is a step in the right direction for all parties concerned."

[Gebiv]

"What a glorious day it is! Tahoe-Gebiv relations have never been very good, and it is good to see we can finally look beyond our previous differences.

"It is also good to see one less non-European power have a stake on European soil. We salute Tahoe in their efforts to rid the world of colonies. Here's to a better future!"

[JEDCJT]

We applaud both Tahoe and Gebiv on this.

OOC: Yes, my diplomatic staff does tint the 'e' in Gebiv pink.

[Gebiv]

We applaud both Tahoe and Gebiv on this.

OOC: Yes, my diplomatic staff does tint the 'e' in Gebiv pink.

It's always good to see the world take delight in our transactions.

[V The King]

"A noble and sensible move by our Pacific friends. Thankfully, Gibraltar is still in good hands."

[Gebiv]

"A noble and sensible move by our Pacific friends. Thankfully, Gibraltar is still in good hands."

OOC: I see another person can actually spell Gibraltar.

[iamthey]

Congrats to both parties involved.

[LeVentNoir]

It was a colony, and we see that you are taking steps to renounce your hypocrisy, a move towards in the right direction.

[Sir Keshav IV]

"Interesting, good to see this."

[Comrade]

Molakia applauds this decision by both parties to fix an issue that many see as hypocrisy. While we do not see it as that, we are glad that Europe now owns this area again.

[Manetheren]

It was a colony, and we see that you are taking steps to renounce your hypocrisy, a move towards in the right direction.

No, it was a jointly held overseas military base won by the Ferrous Pacific Alliance. For most of the time that that alliance controlled Gibraltar, Tahoe had no stake in it whatsoever, and it was only with the collapse of most of the former members that Tahoe moved in to provide stability with the tacit approval of all major European powers who recognized the legal authority of the Ferrous Pacific, any member of the Ferrous Pacific, mind, to do so. There was no economic benefit to controlling Gibraltar. We did not tax any citizens, demand payments of any kind or, most notably, every demand "gifts" for free passage through the Strait of Gibraltar, which many of its former owners have.

Clearly the nuances of reality are difficult to understand

Edited May 23, 2009 by Emperor Mudd

[LeVentNoir]

No, it was a jointly held overseas military base won by the Ferrous Pacific Alliance. For most of the time that that alliance controlled Gibraltar, Tahoe had no stake in it whatsoever, and it was only with the collapse of most of the former members that Tahoe moved in to provide stability with the tacit approval of all major European powers who recognized the legal authority of the Ferrous Pacific, any member of the Ferrous Pacific, mind, to do so. There was no economic benefit to controlling Gibraltar. We did not tax any citizens, demand payments of any kind or, most notably, every demand "gifts" for free passage through the Strait of Gibraltar, which many of its former owners have.

Clearly the nuances of reality are difficult to understand

By the definition you used to strong arm Imperial Alliance, it was a colony. You may not admit it in public, but that is what it was. According to you. Or does fuzzy definitions allow denial of guilt?

[Manetheren]

Lets look at the differences:

Gibraltar was a purely military base with no economic ramifications one way or another. It was not established to economically benefit Tahoe, nor was it intended that we keep control over it for a long period of time. We never wanted it to begin with, as we already stated. There was no immigration to Gibraltar from Tahoe and the people already living there had total self government in domestic issues.

Norfolk had military applications, but was primarily a civilian "base" that economically benefited the homeland. While we never claimed it was being exploited, it had a strong economic benefit. Furthermore, it was populated with non-Americans on an American continent fulfilling the fundamental definition of a colony.

There is a distinct difference. Colonies are intolerable, overseas military bases are, while not Tahoe's idea of acceptable (hence us giving it up to a responsible local power), they are not in the same league.

[Shadowsage]

It's a Military Installation on a highly-trafficked route away from your home-land. That gives it economical clout and you're well aware of that when you attempted to close the Mediterrenean when Comintern and the NC were dangerously close to war. Furthermore, if it was a military base then the dependants of those stationed were certain to visit at times; the support infrastructure for military occupation would have been constructed.

[Manetheren]

It did give economic power that we never sought to use. The closure of the passage affected only military vessels in an attempt to keep the peace. As for infrastructure, it was already there or constructed by our treaty partners before Tahoe had any interest there. We only effectively controlled Gibraltar for a very short amount of time compared to the amount of time it was controlled by our allies.

[Proxian Empire]

Proxia is pleased to see this.

[welshgazza1992]

The Welsh Empire is glad to hear of this news!

[Subtleknifewielder]

It did give economic power that we never sought to use. The closure of the passage affected only military vessels in an attempt to keep the peace. As for infrastructure, it was already there or constructed by our treaty partners before Tahoe had any interest there. We only effectively controlled Gibraltar for a very short amount of time compared to the amount of time it was controlled by our allies.

Intended or no...the power was there. You still made use of it, to a limited degree, when it served your purpose, and it was a colony, whether you wanted it to be or not.

[LeVentNoir]

Lets look at the differences:

Gibraltar was a purely military base with no economic ramifications one way or another. It was not established to economically benefit Tahoe, nor was it intended that we keep control over it for a long period of time. We never wanted it to begin with, as we already stated. There was no immigration to Gibraltar from Tahoe and the people already living there had total self government in domestic issues.

Norfolk had military applications, but was primarily a civilian "base" that economically benefited the homeland. While we never claimed it was being exploited, it had a strong economic benefit. Furthermore, it was populated with non-Americans on an American continent fulfilling the fundamental definition of a colony.

There is a distinct difference. Colonies are intolerable, overseas military bases are, while not Tahoe's idea of acceptable (hence us giving it up to a responsible local power), they are not in the same league.

And Gibraltar was populated with Americans on a non-American continent, and again you are trapped by your own definitions.

[Manetheren]

And Gibraltar was populated with Americans on a non-American continent, and again you are trapped by your own definitions.

Incorrect. It is interesting you seem to think you know more about our operations than we do. There was never significant numbers of Tahoans in Gibraltar at all, we never encouraged immigration, nor did we allow it. Gibraltar was populated by its natives, not by Tahoans. If you believe otherwise, you may confirm with Gebiv at the number of natives of Gibraltar dispaced by us (the answer would be zero, to save you time). Or perhaps you would like the official tally of Tahoans living there (we don't track expatriates) before and after we left. It never even approached 5% of the total population.

Intended or no...the power was there. You still made use of it, to a limited degree, when it served your purpose, and it was a colony, whether you wanted it to be or not.

Also incorrect. We never made use of Gibraltars immense economic potential in any way. No fines, fees or taxes were ever levied from Gibraltar, nor did we ever gain a single pence from controlling it. In fact, Gibraltar was quite the waste of taxpayer funds, with us paying for the expenses of a small city thousands of miles from home with no way of levying funds to pay for it from the local population.

Again, we thank our European friends in dealing with this matter (has a western european power opposed us...nope) and will leave the chattering class to do what they do best.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Emperor Mudd

[LeVentNoir]

Incorrect. It is interesting you seem to think you know more about our operations than we do. There was never significant numbers of Tahoans in Gibraltar at all, we never encouraged immigration, nor did we allow it. Gibraltar was populated by its natives, not by Tahoans. If you believe otherwise, you may confirm with Gebiv at the number of natives of Gibraltar dispaced by us (the answer would be zero, to save you time). Or perhaps you would like the official tally of Tahoans living there (we don't track expatriates) before and after we left. It never even approached 5% of the total population.

So instead you governed non americans, outside your continent and controlled pretty much a colony in everything but your admittance.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Also incorrect. We never made use of Gibraltars immense economic potential in any way. No fines, fees or taxes were ever levied from Gibraltar, nor did we ever gain a single pence from controlling it. In fact, Gibraltar was quite the waste of taxpayer funds, with us paying for the expenses of a small city thousands of miles from home with no way of levying funds to pay for it from the local population.

We never said you made a profit from it--only that you wielded the power possessing the area granted you, when you attempted to close the Straight of Gibraltar during the rising tensions between the ComIntern and the Nordlandic Cnfederacy.

[Manetheren]

So instead you governed non americans, outside your continent and controlled pretty much a colony in everything but your admittance.

Gibraltar had home rule as long as we controlled it. Also, "pretty much" is not the same as "is".

We never said you made a profit from it--only that you wielded the power possessing the area granted you, when you attempted to close the Straight of Gibraltar during the rising tensions between the ComIntern and the Nordlandic Cnfederacy.

That is correct. I'm sure you can appreciate a desire to keep peace.

[Sargun II]

Can't we all just shut up? Tahoe had the ability to take advantage of Gibraltar but never did - does that not show you the actual character of the state? Instead of condemning them for giving up something which they never abused, you should be applauding them for showing self restraint while much of the world would have use it for their own selfish advantage.