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Reps for IRON, NPO, Echelon, and TPF


Chickenzilla

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I don't think that matters much unless VE were incapable of saying they didn't want it.

Yes because saying no when NPO comes a knocking was so healthy for alliances at that time. Actually kind of why we're here.

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Reps for people like IRON and NPO could set some kind of record yet still be "light"

Consider this, if you asked for 80k in tech from IRON (depending on the membership count, im guessing at 600 even) thats only ~130 per nation and can be moved in no time at all. now ask for the same 80k tech from someone whos only, say, 150 nations and thats over 500 tech per nation. Now what is harsher, 130 or 530 tech

Same could be said for NPO, though i have a feeling it could be June before those numbers are even discussed

EDIT: To achive Hegemony-like reps on this scale you would have to be asking for hundreds of thousands of tech and tens of billions of dollars

From the numbers I've heard, it's getting somewhat close (at least in terms of money reps[billions]). From my understanding, that's just one alliance and not on NPO. :o

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Has IRON ever demanded harsh reps from anyone? I know I personally haven't ever been on the receiving end of any war reps, and I've been in IRON for upwards of 500 days. Then again I don't know a WHOLE lot about CN history.

Can someone give me an example of how much reps IRON/NPO/TPF etc accepted in the past?

Maybe you should forward that question FAN. The answer I think would be "Just die"

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[/b]

From the numbers I've heard, it's getting somewhat close (at least in terms of money reps[billions]). From my understanding, that's just one alliance and not on NPO. :o

I hate you for making me do math at 2:30AM

Ok lets say IRON gets hit with a couple billion, theyve still got some big boys in hippy who could probably foot the bill for atleast one or two billion alone(Srsly, how many billions do you think Bubbler has/had?) break it down, 1.5 billion is exactly 2.5 million per nation, 3 billion is still only 5 million per nation. If you cant afford these numbers than you werent prepared for this war

Again i'll use MK as my example, if 150 nations had to pay 3 billion, thats 20 million per nation..on top of however much tech is demanded (i believe my previous example was over 500 tech per nation) is rather harsh

Granted reps are designed to rebuild you quicker and slow your opponents growth but its my opinion you can cross a line between the aforementioned rebuilt/slow growth and just flat out cripple your opponent

Further math can be found in #farkistan, i promise i wont kick you* :)

*I'm lying like a rug

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I suppose it depends on the actions of the alliance in the past. IRON for example has waived reps the last few wars or only asked for a very nominal amount, it would be despicable to demand something on the level of MK reps.

Personally though I don't think punishment reps really work they punish the membership of an alliance which had little to nothing to do with the policies of the alliance. Ultimately they really only serve to unite the membership behind the leadership and against the victimizer alliances making revenge and what not far more likely than if a set of demands geared at reformation were put in place. If you want proof o this the mentality is around us right now. Karma itself is about giving NPO "what was coming to them", if the alliances that are being destroyed now hadn't instituted policies that were along these lines, then none of you would be here today calling for overkill in reparations. All demanding a ton of tech from them is going to do is perpetuate the cycle, and if not in these alliances than in the many other alliances members of these alliances go to when they eventually decide to go somewhere else. This is a pretty popular example but post WWI Germany, the reps did nothing other than cause people to suffer resulting in hatred and a call for revenge. In exchange for their lack of foresight they got another war, a genocide, and an even more repressive fascist regime. Deal with the problem not the symptoms.

EDIT: wickedj; I get what you are saying about high reps not being that bad for large alliances, but the reps that are being discussed are not meant to really pay for damages (there is no way you can really cover damages in a war like this) they are really about two things. A "getting back" and B to be blunt plundering the other alliance for your own nations' gain. Just because an alliance can pay for the reps doesn't mean it isn't just as demoralizing and humiliating to them, nor does it mean that its deserved. If Reps are to be used as a punishment and not just an instrument of personal greed then then it ought to fit the crime not the pocket book. Moreover I might add that while there are many large nations left that could be mobilized to pay the reps its likely only a fraction of them will actually respond, and since we are talking about the large nations you are talking about some losing 500-1k of their tech the result would be devastating to the individuals and the effects I described would be the result.

Edited by iamthey
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I suppose it might. Just as much as TPF caving to Valhalla for TDSM8's surrender terms during the BAPS War.

But, but, but...I love stumpy!

Edited by Desperado
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Has IRON ever demanded harsh reps from anyone? I know I personally haven't ever been on the receiving end of any war reps, and I've been in IRON for upwards of 500 days. Then again I don't know a WHOLE lot about CN history.

Can someone give me an example of how much reps IRON/NPO/TPF etc accepted in the past?

i'd be delighted to. (Note: All of these can be found on the CN Wikia, but im linking the OWF threads)

TOOL paid 90 million to IRON in the UJW

Wolfpack paid 18,000 tech to Q

GPA pays 70k tech to Q

GATO got a Viceroy plus eons of war

FAN got perma-war

As far as i know IRON is still at war with Jarheads

CSN paid close to 9k tech to IRON, Polar, as well as 9 other alliances

Theres more :) but i'll let someone else finish

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I hate you for making me do math at 2:30AM

Ok lets say IRON gets hit with a couple billion, theyve still got some big boys in hippy who could probably foot the bill for atleast one or two billion alone(Srsly, how many billions do you think Bubbler has/had?) break it down, 1.5 billion is exactly 2.5 million per nation, 3 billion is still only 5 million per nation. If you cant afford these numbers than you werent prepared for this war

Again i'll use MK as my example, if 150 nations had to pay 3 billion, thats 20 million per nation..on top of however much tech is demanded (i believe my previous example was over 500 tech per nation) is rather harsh

Granted reps are designed to rebuild you quicker and slow your opponents growth but its my opinion you can cross a line between the aforementioned rebuilt/slow growth and just flat out cripple your opponent

Further math can be found in #farkistan, i promise i wont kick you* :)

*I'm lying like a rug

I apologize for putting you in the position to attempt math at this hour. I don't like math either. Further, I think you wouldn't know who I was if I didn't use an alliance tag. :lol1:

So several billion plus about 100K in tech is fair for IRON. From what I can tell, generally speaking, IRON is usually considered a fair alliance and, from the content of many posts I've read, less "evil' than TPF or NPO (or several others alliances for that matter). What then, would be the appropriate reps for TPF in your opinion?

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As far as i know IRON is still at war with Jarheads

Jarheads got peace from NPO a month or more ago and IRON was somewhere around then as well. They have had peace for a month or more from what I remember.

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If Valhalla got off scotch free, OG the same, and GGA and MCXA nearly unscathed I don't get what TPF has done that was so bad. They fought to the end. Never once did they support P/EZI nor did they force any alliance to disband or lay upon them very harsh terms. Why is it that TPF is getting singled out? Because they gave you the war that you wanted? Or is it because "rolling a hard six" really irritates you that much?

Seriously, what the heck did TPF do that was so catastrophic that warrants them of all alliances to be singled out? I don't understand it. Do you people not realize that they stood up for most of the things you stood for and forced the Hegemony to make some changes?

What did TPF do to deserve this? Please answer me because right now some of these comments are beyong ridiculous. And Orkules, you sound like a damn NPO IO after his alliance has been betrayed I'll tell you that right now.

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As I said nominal amounts. (IRON's take was 2k). And 90 million is pretty easily paid.

As far as i know IRON is still at war with Jarheads.

They peaced them out about a month ago. Maybe less.

Edited by iamthey
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I believe IRON and TPF should pay minimal reps, say 10000 tech and $100000000 each, while NPO should be bombed and blasted until they are no more. They have brought on all which they are recieving now and if they are ever given peace, it should be extremly harsh terms. 500000 tech and $5 billion would probably be acceptable for monetary reps, definate destruction of all military wonders and improvements, definate EZI for many of their government officials, this would be a great start in my opinion; but then again, I detest the NPO.

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If Valhalla got off scotch free, OG the same, and GGA and MCXA nearly unscathed I don't get what TPF has done that was so bad. They fought to the end. Never once did they support P/EZI nor did they force any alliance to disband or lay upon them very harsh terms. Why is it that TPF is getting singled out? Because they gave you the war that you wanted? Or is it because "rolling a hard six" really irritates you that much?

Seriously, what the heck did TPF do that was so catastrophic that warrants them of all alliances to be singled out? I don't understand it. Do you people not realize that they stood up for most of the things you stood for and forced the Hegemony to make some changes?

What did TPF do to deserve this? Please answer me because right now some of these comments are beyong ridiculous. And Orkules, you sound like a damn NPO IO after his alliance has been betrayed I'll tell you that right now.

Trying to take out PC. So we have every right to hate TPF.

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Well how about we say for IRON 6billion 50,000-100,000 tech.

Now i was in NAAC from just after GW1 till we disbanded. I'm astounded at those sort of reps. Karma was meant to be about teaching them a lesson. About being the bigger person. However, i dont think they should get off without reps but i dont think they should be crucified.

When Zenith got into this war DK had already said to Mhawk that if it turned our that our side wins Zenith are giving our opponenets white peace. How hard is that to say? Yet what we had was alot of alliances not brave enough to speak up when these actual attrociates were being done. Now however they want to offer the same punishment. (Hypocriate alert)

What your are basically punishing alliances for here, is being on the winning side for too long. However TPF & IRON have stayed with the same allies even when they are losing. I see alot of those alliances that were involved have switched to be on the winning side again and are now demanding what NPO would have demanded had they been on the winning side.

KARMA has lost my respect and i wanted you to succeed.

Cheers

SunTzu

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I suppose it might. Just as much as TPF caving to Valhalla for TDSM8's surrender terms during the BAPS War.

From what I remember noWedge wanted to P-Zi entire alliances and Slayer and others stopped all that nonsense and noWedge didn't last much longer.

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If Valhalla got off scotch free, OG the same, and GGA and MCXA nearly unscathed I don't get what TPF has done that was so bad. They fought to the end. Never once did they support P/EZI nor did they force any alliance to disband or lay upon them very harsh terms. Why is it that TPF is getting singled out? Because they gave you the war that you wanted? Or is it because "rolling a hard six" really irritates you that much?

Seriously, what the heck did TPF do that was so catastrophic that warrants them of all alliances to be singled out? I don't understand it. Do you people not realize that they stood up for most of the things you stood for and forced the Hegemony to make some changes?

What did TPF do to deserve this? Please answer me because right now some of these comments are beyong ridiculous. And Orkules, you sound like a damn NPO IO after his alliance has been betrayed I'll tell you that right now.

Hi, I'm somebody who TPF perma-ZI'd. In truth I was eternal ZI'd, they just had the exact same name at the time. Stop with the "We never did it!" stuff.

Also, I would definitely say that I openly and vocally disagreed with the terms given to Old Guard and Valhalla, as did many others. They deserved worse. MCXA is admittedly the one of you that I cared the least about and GGA frankly I don't see as a threat even if we hadn't touched them, let alone forcing them to rebuild with terms. I think you deserve worse even if just for helping the NPO so well and loyally while they did what they did.

As for how I sound...not entirely sure what you mean but I assume it's the harsh terms and the like. Well you people do deserve it. But you won't get it because we, and I am included in this, don't believe in that kind of thing. You will get a reasonable amount of terms but they will not be ridiculous or over the top, even if true Karma or retribution would demand it.

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definate EZI for many of their government officials, this would be a great start in my opinion

Please don't bring this practice back in. It is something that serves no purpose.

Trying to take out PC. So we have every right to hate TPF.

I would say that you have something worse than hate...maybe an obsession with illusion?

Edited by Desperado
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