Attention "The Phoenix Federation"

[neneko]

No there isn't, Unlike an alliance like Umbrella, IRAN doesn't have that many nations that can assist in growth aid, so our slots are better suited to do that instead of paying STA back for something that happened over a year ago, and I dont believe I ever claimed they were ok to steal,just all of the reps are no longer in the alliance anymore, since most of the tech(I just checked on the old forums) went to Dutchy and Batallion(800/1000) so since they took the tech they can pay it back.

How convinient. Everything bad leads back to batallion.

You really don't get what it means to be a leader of a alliance do you? If you support your alliance stealing from others you are saying that it's okay to steal. Your alliance stole from STA when they lost 80% of their ns and you're saying that you wouldn't have the resources to pay it back because of a few days war?

You don't get a clean slate as an alliance just because you appoint new leaders (or in this case have your protector appoint new leaders) unless you make some sort of ammends for what you did.

edit:

Not being critical here... but since when did CN start equating Reps with Stealing? Again, not being critical but this seems to be something of a new thought (outspoken at least). I for one am only interested in reps for roguing. I don't mind the tech deal reps if the alliance is only selling tech with their normal tech selling nations and not everyone. I have never taken reps ever and have even been involved in helping rebuild our foes after (BAPS ) who got free 3m/50t shipments sent to help them recover.

I know you don't want to consider TPF has been a vastly different alliance under mhawk.. but we understand alot of people who were on the losing end of a war wants to revenge. I personally think that by showing your defeated enemies the terms you would have rather seen in the past by offering them (whatever they are) in their own defeat.. There may be a residual effect for future wars that are positive for both sides..

Meh.. who am I but a nice guy that pretty much likes anyone.. even the guy nuking me to hell and back

You have a better word than stealing for extorting reps from a alliance you beat down to 20% of it's original size when the alliance in question did no crime except honoring a defensive treaty? I think stealing is pretty spot on here.

Edited May 17, 2009 by neneko

[Neo Uruk]

No there isn't, Unlike an alliance like Umbrella, IRAN doesn't have that many nations that can assist in growth aid, so our slots are better suited to do that instead of paying STA back for something that happened over a year ago, and I dont believe I ever claimed they were ok to steal,just all of the reps are no longer in the alliance anymore, since most of the tech(I just checked on the old forums) went to Dutchy and Batallion(800/1000) so since they took the tech they can pay it back.

If you were really Mr. Morality you'd be more than happy to give up your tech for an honorable alliance anyway.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Rey the Great

[deathcat]

If you were really Mr. Morality you'd be more than happy to give up your tech for an honorable alliance anyway.

I say.. that's an interesting new strategy.. give an alliance favorable terms to get them out of war.. then guilt them into sending reps voluntarily.. let me know how that works out for your guys

[Roadie]

I appreciate Karmas more pendantic posters stopping in for a visit to this thread and sticking around to wear out their welcome.

By all means, you are all more important than everyone else, so please, continue.

[neneko]

I say.. that's an interesting new strategy.. give an alliance favorable terms to get them out of war.. then guilt them into sending reps voluntarily.. let me know how that works out for your guys

Now now I don't honestly expect mogar to honor his word from earlier in this thread. Mogar changes moral stance faster than any of us can reply so expecting that any of the things he say actually mean anything would be pretty dumb.

[Neo Uruk]

I say.. that's an interesting new strategy.. give an alliance favorable terms to get them out of war.. then guilt them into sending reps voluntarily.. let me know how that works out for your guys

I'm not trying to make him go on a guilt-trip. He keeps saying he'd be happy to give STA their tech back, but on conditioned terms. I personally would be willing to give STA tech if I had enough and all that.

I appreciate Karmas more pendantic posters stopping in for a visit to this thread and sticking around to wear out their welcome.

By all means, you are all more important than everyone else, so please, continue.

It's not that we're more important, it's that our points are valid.

[Roadie]

It's not that we're more important, it's that our points are valid.

Water is wet. That's a valid point. What you don't see is those of us who are trying to have fun in this thread and one other, out spamming every thread with the same 'valid point'

But like I said, y'alls more important. You have the floor. Please continue.

[Roadie]

What kind of reps did TPF get from STA?

[deathcat]

Now now I don't honestly expect mogar to honor his word from earlier in this thread. Mogar changes moral stance faster than any of us can reply so expecting that any of the things he say actually mean anything would be pretty dumb.

I've just seen this question posed in other threads.. I would expect him to send it back "if" the others who partook in it would agree to. Hell, I'd offer a few slots up to make up for Battalion and Dutchy. Again, only so that the sins of the fathers aren't paid for by the sons/daughters. I suggest a new trend. In any surrender negotiations, offer up terms that YOU (this goes for anyone) would accept and then be held to those same terms in the future. I don't mean to go back in time past "this" war.. so for those who feel the need to Punish.. Give the terms you want to be given (IE the Golden Rule)

And no.. I'm not asking that you give white peace to anyone.. that would be YOUR decision alone..

oo/

I take my leave of this seriousness.. and go back to my mindless hails, torturing others with foodie talk, and being a silly person again.

[neneko]

What kind of reps did TPF get from STA?

I know it's a bit confusing but technically mogar isn't part of TPF.

[BamaBuc]

What kind of reps did TPF get from STA?

We didn't fight STA, OPP did.

Can we just make a "TPF discussion thread" so the friendly banter threads can stay un-serious?

-Bama

[Neo Uruk]

What kind of reps did TPF get from STA?

5. STA pays the Alliances at war with them $250 million and 12,000 tech total.

Signed for the combined group of OPP and IRAN and FUC by TPF:

Slayer99 - Evil Overlord

Desperado` - Phoenix Magistrate

Jbone - Phoenix Magistrate

Mhawk - Flaming Consul

Wingwhiper Jr - Phoenix Magistrate

Mogar - Minister of the Protectorates

MagicNinja - Minister of the Protectorates

There we go.

EDIT: It should be noted that TPF didn't actually get reps as they did not fight STA.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Rey the Great

[Mogar]

I'm not trying to make him go on a guilt-trip. He keeps saying he'd be happy to give STA their tech back, but on conditioned terms. I personally would be willing to give STA tech if I had enough and all that.

It's not that we're more important, it's that our points are valid.

Yes on conditions terms even if I did it nobody else would too, and it'd just stagnate the growth of my own alliance, without any benefit for my or my allies, give me a reason to and I'd be happy to, otherwise I'm not going to waste my warchest and tech to satisfy your morals, I'd rather have you start whining at TOP and gang first, then I'll start sending tech back once Polaris starts to get hers back. If it was unfair for IRAN to do it a year ago under other management, it was unfair for your allies to do it too .

There we go.

Mogar - Minister of the Protectorates

wait what? Shows how active of a government member I was, <3 magicninja.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mogar

[Neo Uruk]

Yes on conditions terms even if I did it nobody else would too, and it'd just stagnate the growth of my own alliance, without any benefit for my or my allies, give me a reason to and I'd be happy to, otherwise I'm not going to waste my warchest and tech to satisfy your morals, I'd rather have you start whining at TOP and gang first, then I'll start sending tech back once Polaris starts to get hers back. If it was unfair for IRAN to do it a year ago under other management, it was unfair for your allies to do it too .

wait what? Shows how active of a government member I was, <3 magicninja.

We're not arguing whether or not it was wrong to take the massive reps, we're wondering why you won't do what you think's right (according to your posts, but as neneko pointed out, it may not be what you think).

[neneko]

Yes on conditions terms even if I did it nobody else would too, and it'd just stagnate the growth of my own alliance, without any benefit for my or my allies, give me a reason to and I'd be happy to, otherwise I'm not going to waste my warchest and tech to satisfy your morals,

It's not our morals, it's your morals. You're the one that claimed that you didn't in any way support your theft from STA. The rest of this just show how much your morals are worth. You'll only stand up for your morals if there's a direct benifit to you and your allies? Nice to see how much your morals are worth.

I'd rather have you start whining at TOP and gang first, then I'll start sending tech back once Polaris starts to get hers back. If it was unfair for IRAN to do it a year ago under other management, it was unfair for your allies to do it too .

yet again, the fact that others did it doesn't make your theft any more morally right

[Doitzel]

We didn't fight STA, OPP did.

Can we just make a "TPF discussion thread" so the friendly banter threads can stay un-serious?

-Bama

The irony here is not lost on me as it might be on others. Thank you.

[mhawk]

There we go.

EDIT: It should be noted that TPF didn't actually get reps as they did not fight STA.

We didn't take anything from them so far as I'm aware. This is getting pushed on to us as a continuation of the STA/valhalla crap. We don't have an issue with STA. I've told tyga several times I even went to cj about lowering the terms on STA as they were out of line at the time, especially regarding gov members.

Now it is silly to argue about terms for tpf since I won't even begin talks until our allies are out. We'll deal with whatever folks want to deal to us. We don't need to accept anything that isnt reasonable to us so I really don't see the issue. Please return this topic to mocking the 10% of TPF's original nations that have not fought yet.

[Neo Uruk]

Please return this topic to mocking the 10% of TPF's original nations that have not fought yet.

But... but.... That was a horrible experience for me, those 6 days of no fighting, blanketed by a white sheet.

[Mogar]

We're not arguing whether or not it was wrong to take the massive reps, we're wondering why you won't do what you think's right (according to your posts, but as neneko pointed out, it may not be what you think).

Because I don't think it's right to give someone a refund on reps, it's never happened before because it's an absolutely retarded idea, it's not like I'm going to get my 120 million back from GOONS or my 60 Million back from NV, nor do I care to, I lost a war and accepted surrender terms, my point at the very beginning of this thread, is I feel giving out terms is morally wrong, but obviously LET'S BAIT MOGAR INTO CONTRADICTING HIMSELF, is far more entertaining than accepting an opinion.

It's not our morals, it's your morals. You're the one that claimed that you didn't in any way support your theft from STA. The rest of this just show how much your morals are worth. You'll only stand up for your morals if there's a direct benifit to you and your allies? Nice to see how much your morals are worth.

yet again, the fact that others did it doesn't make your theft any more morally right

My moral tell me that my alliance shouldn't pay back something my alliance didn't benefit from, 2 members did and neither are in the alliance, so I don't believe it's our responsibility anymore. Once again I did not steal anything, nor did IRAN, it was reps, reps != theft, if you sign surrender terms, you have to follow them, sucks to lose a war, I've done it a lot. I'll stand up for my morals when it's proven to be an intelligent thing to do, paying out 1000 tech no one in my alliance currently actually benefited from makes no sense, unless you'd like to explain to me your logic there, other than BAWWW GIVE STA THE TECHS AND MONEY YUOZ GUYS STOLED, EVEN IF NOBODY WHO TOOK SAID REPS ARE IN YOUR ALLIANCE ANYMORE.

[Neo Uruk]

Because I don't think it's right to give someone a refund on reps, it's never happened before because it's an absolutely retarded idea, it's not like I'm going to get my 120 million back from GOONS or my 60 Million back from NV, nor do I care to, I lost a war and accepted surrender terms, my point at the very beginning of this thread, is I feel giving out terms is morally wrong, but obviously LET'S BAIT MOGAR INTO CONTRADICTING HIMSELF, is far more entertaining than accepting an opinion.

My moral tell me that my alliance shouldn't pay back something my alliance didn't benefit from, 2 members did and neither are in the alliance, so I don't believe it's our responsibility anymore. Once again I did not steal anything, nor did IRAN, it was reps, reps != theft, if you sign surrender terms, you have to follow them, sucks to lose a war, I've done it a lot. I'll stand up for my morals when it's proven to be an intelligent thing to do, paying out 1000 tech no one in my alliance currently actually benefited from makes no sense, unless you'd like to explain to me your logic there, other than BAWWW GIVE STA THE TECHS AND MONEY YUOZ GUYS STOLED, EVEN IF NOBODY WHO TOOK SAID REPS ARE IN YOUR ALLIANCE ANYMORE.

This is going to be my last post on the matter. We didn't have to bait you to contradict yourself. You did it naturally. Morals aren't meant to be based upon intelligence, that's politics, which you have to disregard morals to be an expert on.

[shahenshah]

Lol if Reps start getting refunded, it will be Karma leading the show closely behind NPO...wait..or was it the other way round?.

*Fixed the tense.

Edited May 17, 2009 by shahenshah

[TehChron]

If I were making these arguments just for "attention" I wouldnt be arguing this side of the argument, believing in the YAY KARMA side would make me more well liked, so your logic isn't very good.

OMG look here to see what I was saying.

How can you respect Mogar?! The man's just spewing Devil's advocacy in the hope of getting attention. He doesn't actually believe anything he's saying here. I mean, ffs, Didnt you read his Q&A thread?

Didn't say well-liked. You just want people to pay attention to you. Congratulations on achieving the delicate art of lifting words into my mouth, then trying to put them there. But don't bother trying, I'll just requote you and make you look ridiculous again.

[Vilien]

Lol if Reps start getting refunded, it will be Karma leading the show closely behind NPO...wait..or is it the other way round?.

What?

[Neo Uruk]

What?

I think he means that if reps were refunded, we'd have to pay NPO at this time?

Edited May 17, 2009 by Rey the Great

[Vilien]

I think he means that if reps were refunded, we'd have to pay NPO at this time?

If that is the case, then his claim would be highly dubious, considering how reps have never been extracted from Pacifica.