Attention "The Phoenix Federation"

[Rush Sykes]

Supposedly you want to be better than your enemies, at least that's what the word on the street is , I'm not going to defend their past actions, that's up to them to do, I will express my opinion as to what I feel they should get for terms, and I know that mhawk's TPF != Slayer99's TPF, although right now trying to convince anyone of this is like trying to say Assington wasn't Sponge's puppet during the War of the Coalition.

DING DING DING...Called it.

[neneko]

It is, but TPF wasn't the one who was the main source of the get out of peace mode taunts towards FAN, NPO was, and that's the root of my problem with this thread, is someone acting exactly like NPO members acted in the past, and then half of Karma cheering him on for it.

Not the main source? Well if they were just going with the crowd then the statements they made totally doesn't count.

also if you feel that your alliance have extorted tech from STA in a unfair way feel free to give it back to them any time you want

[Mogar]

Not the main source? Well if they were just going with the crowd then the statements they made totally doesn't count.

also if you feel that your alliance have extorted tech from STA in a unfair way feel free to give it back to them any time you want

Ok, I'm waiting for you to call out your friends in OG, TOP, and Grämlins for going along with the crowd, and to give Polaris her tech back, I'll happily ship back every unit of tech IRAN received from STA if you manage that one, but we both know it isn't going to happen because TOP/Grämlins are honorable and just alliances for using the hegemony to their own advantage to get their blood lust quenched against Polaris, but IRAN is dishonorable for accepting tech reps from the same exact war... oh wait.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mogar

[Rush Sykes]

Ok, I'm waiting for you to call out your friends in OG, TOP, and Grämlins forgoing along with the crowd, and to give Polaris her tech back.

The obvious difference is that TOP, Gramlins and OG are not suggesting White Peace for the most criminal of the hegemony alliances.

[Tygaland]

Supposedly you want to be better than your enemies, at least that's what the word on the street is , I'm not going to defend their past actions, that's up to them to do, I will express my opinion as to what I feel they should get for terms, and I know that mhawk's TPF != Slayer99's TPF, although right now trying to convince anyone of this is like trying to say Assington wasn't Sponge's puppet during the War of the Coalition.

The key factor being whether TPF gets the same sort of terms they dished out. There is a lot of daylight between white peace and the terms the Continuum meted out. But I guess you need to ignore that for dramatic effect.

Karma never said everyone would get white peace.

[Mogar]

The obvious difference is that TOP, Gramlins and OG are not suggesting White Peace for the most criminal of the hegemony alliances.

The obvious difference is that TOP, Grämlins, and OG all used the same exact system you all are crying was so evil, yet 2 of the 3 are fighting on the Karma side, so they're forgiven for their sins, and that's bullcrap, everyone knows it, just turns a blind eye to it because it's nice to have those heavy hitters pounding IRON for you.

The key factor being whether TPF gets the same sort of terms they dished out. There is a lot of daylight between white peace and the terms the Continuum meted out. But I guess you need to ignore that for dramatic effect.

Karma never said everyone would get white peace.

Really I think it depends on which alliances they're at war with get more say in what their peace terms are, I can think of one alliance they're currently fighting who wouldn't be happy unless TPF was their eternal tech farm, although they're one of the alliances I see Karma stomping out soon after this war is over, so I'm not sure if they're going to get much say due to that fact, and I agree that there is such thing as "reasonable reps" but I'd rather just see an end to reps all together, they're simply not needed and just fuel hatred.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mogar

[Rush Sykes]

The key factor being whether TPF gets the same sort of terms they dished out. There is a lot of daylight between white peace and the terms the Continuum meted out. But I guess you need to ignore that for dramatic effect.

Karma never said everyone would get white peace.

This is the part that nobody seems to get, no matter how many times we repeat it.

[Un4Gvn1]

The obvious difference is that TOP, Gramlins and OG are not suggesting White Peace for the most criminal of the hegemony alliances.

Uhh... OG fought with the Hegemony side.

[Haflinger]

The obvious difference is that TOP, Gramlins and OG are not suggesting White Peace for the most criminal of the hegemony alliances.

Mogar's suggesting white peace for pretty much everyone, and saying that if this happens and the reps from WotC get refunded, he'll happily join in. You might disagree with his proposed solution, but he's being logically consistent.

[neneko]

Initial TSI attempt at reps after they gave a white peace to their White Tree.

Yes the entire karma side have shown their full support for that. Right.

The Soldier disbandment, which was premature but they were vindicated by the RV posts in their assumption they would be hit with very hard reps. The Terra Prime disbandment.

You can't blame their incompetence on karma. Karma did nothing to froce them to disband. Unless you know something the rest of us don't.

An ambassadors repeated threat to infiltrate and spy on an alliance.

wait..what? Can you link me to what you're refering to here?

The constant call for things like harsh reps and PZI/EZI which was only really dealt with by MK (props to them) but never curtailed, to my knowledge by other leaders.

Random non gov that call for harsh reps speak for the whole karma side but when 'only one' alliance leader claims the opposite it doesn't really count?

You also forgot the fact that BAPS and most other alliances not part of Q got terrible terms with loads and loads of reps.

[Tygaland]

Initial TSI attempt at reps after they gave a white peace to their White Tree.

TSI got a viceroy and all that, did they? Last I looked they got lighter terms than given to peripheral alliances in the war back in August. So, I'll cross that off your list.

The Soldier disbandment, which was premature but they were vindicated by the RV posts in their assumption they would be hit with very hard reps.

Soldier were already outof the war well before they disbanded as far as I'm aware.

The Terra Prime disbandment.

What about it?

The idea one side needs no real CB or treaty link (DF) because they are on one side of the war.

Examples?

An ambassadors repeated threat to infiltrate and spy on an alliance.

Examples?

The constant call for things like harsh reps and PZI/EZI which was only really dealt with by MK (props to them) but never curtailed, to my knowledge by other leaders.

Thats some off the top of my head.

Examples?

[Rush Sykes]

Uhh... OG fought with the Hegemony side.

I know this...The point still stands. They are not falling all over themselves in every thread crying because the remaining hegemony alliances will likely not see white peace.

[Mogar]

Uhh... OG fought with the Hegemony side.

I just listed the Citadel alliances that participated in the War of the Coalition, he repeated the list I gave.

Mogar's suggesting white peace for pretty much everyone, and saying that if this happens and the reps from WotC get refunded, he'll happily join in. You might disagree with his proposed solution, but he's being logically consistent.

You're correct, I disprove of reps in general, I think of it like this, I'm not going to beat the crap out of an 8th grader, and then make him pay me $120 to buy me a new pair of Air Jordans because he got blood all over my shoes, that's not right in my eyes, even if I didn't start the fight, I won, I have no reason to add insult to injury.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mogar

[Tygaland]

Mogar's suggesting white peace for pretty much everyone, and saying that if this happens and the reps from WotC get refunded, he'll happily join in. You might disagree with his proposed solution, but he's being logically consistent.

What a pity Mogar, once again, is in no position to champion his merciful cause. He never once offered to pay back the reps IRAN took from the STA, even after Battalion left. Now he is shilling for a free pass for TPF it is suddenly somethign worth considering. Heh.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Tygaland

[Mogar]

What a pity Mogar, once again, is in no position to champion his merciful cause. He never once offered to pay back the reps IRAN took from the STA, even after Battalion left. Now he is shilling for a free pass for TPF it is suddenly somethign worth considering. Heh.

When TOP, Grämlins and the rest who also took tech reparations in that war pay back their reps to Polaris, I'll be happy to, they got harsher terms than even your alliance did, since I don't recall your terms forcing your top 25 to screw over their nations for the rest of the time their nations exist(sending out every unit of tech from their top 25? I'm only at 2300 tech and I would hate to have to waste the amount of time it'd take to send all of that out and then rebuy it all).

[Rush Sykes]

Mogar's suggesting white peace for pretty much everyone, and saying that if this happens and the reps from WotC get refunded, he'll happily join in. You might disagree with his proposed solution, but he's being logically consistent.

Funny thing about that stance, its real easy to take the stance as you describe it, word for word, when you totally know that there is a 0% chance of success. This is about the singular issue of him campaigning for white peace on TPFs behalf. It is illogical to a) be in an alliance that has accepted reps....b ) be blindly loyal to an alliance that has handed out harsh reps...and c)castigate the winning side of the current conflict for terms that have not yet been delivered while the alliance he is arguing for repeats over and over again, they are not surrendering. And his being present in IRAN for WotC reps is irrelevant. This is not about HIM , this is about the alliance that was, and is. If he cannot let Karma pass on MHA being part of it because of their past ties to ~, then his lone voice cannot equal total dissent and repentence for IRAN imposing reps on a decimated alliance.

[Alexander III]

You're correct, I disprove of reps in general, I think of it like this, I'm not going to beat the crap out of an 8th grader, and then make him pay me $120 to buy me a new pair of Air Jordans because he got blood all over my shoes, that's not right in my eyes, even if I didst start the fight, I won, I have no reason to add insult to injury.

I think Planet Bob would be a much better place if everyone thought like that.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Alexander III

[Tygaland]

When TOP, Grämlins and the rest who also took tech reparations in that war pay back their reps to Polaris, I'll be happy to, they got harsher terms than even your alliance did, since I don't recall your terms forcing your top 25 to screw over their nations for the rest of the time their nations exist(sending out every unit of tech from their top 25? I'm only at 2300 tech and I would hate to have to waste the amount of time it'd take to send all of that out and then rebuy it all).

Ah, so now it is conditional on everyone else on your side in that war following suit! NpO did get harsher terms than we did, I've never said otherwise.

Can you tell me why those top NpO nations had to send out so much tech? Was it anything to do with punishment for being in...peace mode by any chance?

[neneko]

Ok, I'm waiting for you to call out your friends in OG, TOP, and Grämlins for going along with the crowd, and to give Polaris her tech back, I'll happily ship back every unit of tech IRAN received from STA if you manage that one, but we both know it isn't going to happen because TOP/Grämlins are honorable and just alliances for using the hegemony to their own advantage to get their blood lust quenched against Polaris, but IRAN is dishonorable for accepting tech reps from the same exact war... oh wait.

You're the one that claim you in no way support that IRAN recived tech and blame it all on previous leaders. If this is true all you need to do is ship the tech back and don't worry I can manage the transactions. I love to help.

I missed the posts from grämlins and TOP mocking alliances for using peacemode. I doubt OG has done it either. Feel free to point them out though so I can read them myself. I think you're mixing up two differnt arguments though. If you mean I should call out OG, TOP and grämlins for reciving reps in that war I think I've done that quite alot. Although I think grämlins deserve some credit for paying for the tech I've been pretty vocal about my feelings on that extrortion both against my allies and others. If it's the extortion you're talking about I don't see where you get OG from though. I don't recall them getting any reps after that war.

Anyway I'm ready to coordinate your repayments to STA any time. Since both of you are out of the war I think we can get started right away.

Edited May 17, 2009 by neneko

[Rush Sykes]

When TOP, Grämlins and the rest who also took tech reparations in that war pay back their reps to Polaris, I'll be happy to, they got harsher terms than even your alliance did, since I don't recall your terms forcing your top 25 to screw over their nations for the rest of the time their nations exist(sending out every unit of tech from their top 25? I'm only at 2300 tech and I would hate to have to waste the amount of time it'd take to send all of that out and then rebuy it all).

Here is a thought...Lead by example... Go to the IRAN trium and suggest they give the tech back in good faith. See how far that gets you. Next, go to TPF and ask them to give back their reps received in the last war in exchange for white peace...see how far THAT gets you. Then, when all that has failed, come back to this thread and continue to tell Karma they are just like the Hegemony.....????....PROFIT.

[Mogar]

Funny thing about that stance, its real easy to take the stance as you describe it, word for word, when you totally know that there is a 0% chance of success. This is about the singular issue of him campaigning for white peace on TPFs behalf. It is illogical to a) be in an alliance that has accepted reps....b ) be blindly loyal to an alliance that has handed out harsh reps...and c)castigate the winning side of the current conflict for terms that have not yet been delivered while the alliance he is arguing for repeats over and over again, they are not surrendering. And his being present in IRAN for WotC reps is irrelevant. This is not about HIM , this is about the alliance that was, and is. If he cannot let Karma pass on MHA being part of it because of their past ties to ~, then his lone voice cannot equal total dissent and repentence for IRAN imposing reps on a decimated alliance.

wat

first off, your post is pretty lulzy because I've personally paid out over 200 million for reps to make sure CDS wasn't PZI'd post GW3, and then again post UJW, I've been on the losing end more than the winning end, and never accepted reps while on the winning end except in one case where it made sure the guy I accepted reps from didn't get ZI'd for nuking, he gave me the tech back that his nukes killed and went off on his merry way.

a) well then you might want to get on Grämlins, TOP, and almost every other alliance that has won a war, ever.(I admit I don't believe STA has accepted reps before, and I respect Tygaland greatly for that, I wish more alliance leaders would learn from his example)

B) TPF has always been an ally and a friend to me since GW3, they always will be, I stand by my friends and want the best deal possible for them, last I checked it's what you should do for your friends, I may not have the firepower that Grämlins/TOP have and used to make sure OG got white peace, but I can express my opinion.

c) I know damn well TPF is not going to surrender anytime soon, doesn't mean I don't want them to have white peace when the war ends.

I'll repeat, once you convince your allies in TOP/Grämlins to send their 40,000 tech back to NpO, I'll be happy to send back every unit of Tech IRAN got from the same war.

[Rush Sykes]

wat

first off, your post is pretty lulzy because I've personally paid out over 200 million for reps to make sure CDS wasn't PZI'd post GW3, and then again post UJW, I've been on the losing end more than the winning end, and never accepted reps while on the winning end except in one case where it made sure the guy I accepted reps from didn't get ZI'd for nuking, he gave me the tech back that his nukes killed and went off on his merry way.

a) well then you might want to get on Grämlins, TOP, and almost every other alliance that has won a war, ever.(I admit I don't believe STA has accepted reps before, and I respect Tygaland greatly for that, I wish more alliance leaders would learn from his example)

B) TPF has always been an ally and a friend to me since GW3, they always will be, I stand by my friends and want the best deal possible for them, last I checked it's what you should do for your friends, I may not have the firepower that Grämlins/TOP have and used to make sure OG got white peace, but I can express my opinion.

c) I know damn well TPF is not going to surrender anytime soon, doesn't mean I don't want them to have white peace when the war ends.

I'll repeat, once you convince your allies in TOP/Grämlins to send their 40,000 tech back to NpO, I'll be happy to send back every unit of Tech IRAN got from the same war.

And I will repeat, when TOP/Gramlins lose a war and they or their protectorates come here bawwwwwwwing that they should get white peace or else the victors are just like what they fight against, then I will tell them. Im pretty sure you wouldnt find a SINGLE TOP or Gramlins member that would say if, God Forbid, they DID lose a war, there should be no terms imposed on them.

[Alterego]

Yes the entire karma side have shown their full support for that. Right.

I wasnt asked to show instances were Karma was united behind abuses. They dont exist, but some parts of the grouping did behave contrary to what the majority wanted.

You can't blame their incompetence on karma. Karma did nothing to froce them to disband. Unless you know something the rest of us don't.

The argument that people cant be forced out of the game was countered by you can make it so they are severly restricted. I will adapt that Karma argument for this.

wait..what? Can you link me to what you're refering to here?

Its not on the OWF and I wont name names. You can chose to believe me or not on this.

Random non gov that call for harsh reps speak for the whole karma side but when 'only one' alliance leader claims the opposite it doesn't really count?

Staying silent in these threads or allowing posts that are absolutely against what an alliance stands for wasn't as good as approval but without some clear disapproval it appeared to some on the H side it was acceptable to some of Karma at least due to the sheer volume of people calling for them

You also forgot the fact that BAPS and most other alliances not part of Q got terrible terms with loads and loads of reps.

We were treated quite well in relation to terms by most of the alliances at war with us.

@Tyga: Im not going off to dig through every thread of the last month for quotes etc. If you really believe there has been no abuses on the Karma side then you will not be convinced. Some of your own side have given out about the behavior of some on your side.

[Coven]

TPF this.. TPF that...

damn you TPF, you're always get to be on the center stage...

i envy you

What can we say, when you hang with the cool kids, you are popular.

[Tygaland]

@Tyga: Im not going off to dig through every thread of the last month for quotes etc. If you really believe there has been no abuses on the Karma side then you will not be convinced. Some of your own side have given out about the behavior of some on your side.

You made the accusations, the burden of proof lies with you.