The Fall of the Goons, Polaris, Pacifica and the Pax Pacifica

[Starbuck]

Now I know this topic will draw attacks simply because of its nature, I ask that you read the whole topic before you post. I understand that most people won’t and that is OK, you’re not the people I want to have this discussion with.

I have been playing Cybernation longer than my nation has been around, yes I am a re-roll. I will not discuss my past, but I wish to establish my credibility on this topic. To start with I have been playing long enough to remember the day the Great War 1 started, the time the Legion spent as the #1 alliance. The disbandment thread of the Luenited Nations to be honest I have never been a fan of the either the New Pacific/Polar Order. Both alliances exist by throwing their allies on the fire. They are very good at maintaining an ideology of fear and hate. They both know how to play the game, the alliances that hunted them during the first great war, have been removed from their place in power. GATO, LUE, NAAC, Legion, and the ODN each of these alliances in some way have been eliminated in a wave of aggression by the Orders. ODN has never lost their sanction at the hands of the Orders however the ODN is probably the best alliance at self preservation. Everyone talks about the end of Pacifica. This may or may not be the end of the Orders dominance over the world we live.

I made a video about the "bond" between Pacifica and Polaris a few months ago. I have been and always will be a huge fan of the bond that existed between them. While I think the end of the Drunken Buddies Pact was the beginning of the end of the Orders, I think the final nail in the coffin was the cancellation of OoO. Everything that has happen in the last 2 years has come as a result of the cancellation of these two treaties. So my question of discussion is did the cancellation of the Drunken Buddies Compact and OoO ultimately lead to the end of Pax Pacifica?

~~~Yes spelling and some grammar problems, if you could ignore them please do, if not I understand it does take away from the academic credibility of the essay.

[lamuella]

Fall Goons?

Does that make us Spring Goons?

[RobertFitzy]

this simple answer I have to that is yes, it did

[loannes]

Polaris is by far better than Pacifica. Their 'alliance killcount' is much lower.

Edit: Misread something

Edited May 12, 2009 by Drakedeath

[Starbuck]

Fall Goons?

Does that make us Spring Goons?

Title was suppose to read the fall of the goons, polaris, pacifica, and the pax

[Darth Revan]

Title was suppose to read the fall of the goons, polaris, pacifica, and the pax

and now it does.

[Haflinger]

Lamuella, you are obviously Summer Goons.

This is a simplistic analysis, and yet it appeals to me.

[Sylar]

Polaris is by far better than Pacifica. Their 'alliance killcount' is much lower.

Edit: Misread something

also the legion is creeping its way to sanction & the longer this war lasts the easier it will be

and someone (idk know who) will replace NPO and this will all happen again in a year or so

Also ODN ♥

EDIT: you edited the second i quoted

Edited May 12, 2009 by Sylar

[Starbuck]

and now it does.

thank you

[Mogar]

I agree that Pacifica showing the world there's no ally close enough to them that they'd lose pixels for cemented their eventual fall.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Mogar

[The AUT]

This is a simplistic analysis, and yet it appeals to me.

It's simplistic but in its own very natural and innocent way it reveals a lot of truths and brings about a lot of questions.

[Ogaden]

These were all mere consequences, the result and not the cause.

The true cause of this whole mess, this war being the culmination, lies here:

The end of the OoO, the Unjust War, the War of the Coalition, Vox Populi, the FAN war, all are caused by it.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...showtopic=79932

Note the sides then, and the sides now.

Edited May 12, 2009 by James Dahl

[Dochartaigh]

I have to agree with Mogar on this. though it does not seem to be the fall of Polaris really.

[Mogar]

I'll agree that the Ivan incident certainly helped too.

I have to agree with Mogar on this. though it does not seem to be the fall of Polaris really.

Your fall already happened during the War of the Coalition, you're back on the growing side already.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Mogar

[cookavich]

I agree that Pacifica showing the world there's no ally close enough to them that they'd lose pixels for cemented their eventual fall.

I agree. Not even the two alliances that they founded themselves were worth the sacrifice.

[Owned-You]

From my own experience, Polaris has never treated her allies bad nor used them as meat-shields. Pacifica, I cannot comment on as I've never been allied to her. When Pacifca eliminated GOONS, it was more of a self-preservation move for them. GOONS represented the only true threat to her standing and power, it had also been growing steadily in political power through the Unjust Path bloc. As such it was promptly eliminated by Pacifcan hands, albeit indirectly throguh Sponge. As for Polaris, Pacifica betrayed her once Polaris reached this point as well. Polaris had BLEU in her corner, whilst Pacifica has tC. Pacifica did not view BLEU as favorable to her agendas, as such we were promptly eliminated. Ultimatly, it's been the ruthless Pacifican agenda of eliminating any potential threats to her standing that ultimatly lead it to it's current predicament. Public opinion was swayed through Vox Populi exposing various things, and the seeds of disdain were firmly planted with the fall of Polaris & BLEU with essentially no casus beli.

Essentially, Pacifica was playing in an early 2008 political mind-set when it was no longer viable to her well being. Culmulating with the downfall evident today. Will Pacifica rise? Of course she will, as for her political standing and capital that's been expended. That can only be rebuilt if Pacifica changes her disposition and conduct, and that ultimatly falls onto her leadership whom thus far have been stubborn to such changes.

Lastly, Polaris has changed and is a rising power once more. She was the beckon of Blue hope and she remains that still today. Don't let anyone tell you anything else because then they would be telling a lie.

[Dochartaigh]

I'll agree that the Ivan incident certainly helped too.

Your fall already happened during the War of the Coalition, you're back on the growing side already.

i am a Gremlin now. though you could say that Polaris did fall, not nearly as hard as either GOONS or NPO though.

[Mogar]

i am a Gremlin now. though you could say that Polaris did fall, not nearly as hard as either GOONS or NPO though.

You still have Polaris in your heart, and NpO got light terms compared to what NPO will get, and GOONS didn't get terms.

[D34th]

ODN is probably the best alliance at self preservation.

I agree just with that.

[Heracles the Great]

I believe their downfall, Pacifica's more specifically, was the result of ego more than anything else

[Cirrus]

I agree that Pacifica showing the world there's no ally close enough to them that they'd lose pixels for cemented their eventual fall.

Correct.

The cancellation of the treaties mentioned by OP was merely a symptom. The cause of Pax Pacifica's failure is that by its very nature, Pacifica is a divider of nations. Its never-ending thirst to dispose of any potential threat and to maintain a constant stream of wars to feed its boredom with peace has the effect of turning allies into foes. The pax was doomed from the start, because it was a lie from the start. Pacifica was never interested in peace; it was merely interested in creating new enemies

[TehChron]

I believe their downfall, Pacifica's more specifically, was the result of ego more than anything else

You have no idea how right you are.

[Aeternos Astramora]

These were all mere consequences, the result and not the cause.

The true cause of this whole mess, this war being the culmination, lies here:

The end of the OoO, the Unjust War, the War of the Coalition, Vox Populi, the FAN war, all are caused by it.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...showtopic=79932

Note the sides then, and the sides now.

I wouldn't say that was a cause. However, it did show weakness in the NPO. An internal power struggle surely made them seem less omnipotent.

Honestly, I think the causes of NPO's demise are all of those things. The more alliances they attacked, the more people began to dislike them. You have all of the GWIII era people who have, by now, spread all throughout Planet Bob. You have the Unjust Path refugees that have done likewise. You have BLEU that has rebuilt. You have tons of people disgusted by some of their tactics. The Viridicide, in my opinion, was huge in PR. Eventually, you just had enough people that hated NPO to form a significant threat. Once you had that, the only thing that was required was to win over the alliances that had ties to both sides. This last part turned a very even war into a curb stomp. Since I didn't visit OWF or AP after the War of the Coalition until the start of this war, I'm not sure how the last part was accomplished. Would anybody like to fill out the rest of the story?

[Chief Savage Man]

The New Pacific Order threw its allies on the fire. The New Polar Order never did (as far as I remember). Sponge's NpO from the Moldavi Rebellion to his removal was perhaps the most hostile and aggressive NpO seen so far, but it was so because Sponge didn't play the power games that the NPO does. While Sponge's NpO was responsible for the destruction of many alliances, the NpO's allies have always known who they are and the NpO's enemies have always known who they are. On the other hand, NPO created a power structure that encompassed the entire game, a complicated alliance system with NPO on top, and they held that position because of their willingness to lie and betray others. That's why the NPO is being stomped on, while NpO thrives. Nobody is angry at the NpO right now, but a hell of a lot of people are pissed at the NPO. Pardon my babbling, my point, in a nutshell, is that the "Orders" haven't existed as a unified political force for years, and therefore, your use of the term "Orders" isn't really valid in this sense.

[Merrie Melodies]

Polaris is by far better than Pacifica. Their 'alliance killcount' is much lower.

Edit: Misread something

Do you have a score card of alliances killed by both? I never really recorded them, but it seems to me Polaris has killed far more.