Krull Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) They were condemned for "stealing 10k tech" but now we're expected to do the same? The point I was trying to make was that getting that amount from a 350K alliance and getting it from an alliance of Valhalla's current strength is entirely different. Edited May 11, 2009 by Krull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I don't respect it...this is akin to being jumped by a mugger, fighting them off and telling them to go home and think about what they've done. As there is no world police to be called, they need to know there is a risk for their behavior. Without the prospect of punishment for one's actions there is little incentive for them to change their ways. If the alliances that were "mugged" want their tech back or to get their pound of flesh, they had plenty of opportunity to do so - they chose not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) The same Hegemony that we're fighting beside in several cases? There was such public outcry over Valhalla "extorting" tech from an alliance that entered into the "noCB" war on a treaty, but now you want us to do the same in the name of "Karma"? Sorry - I don't agree with that. I can see your point of view Tyga, don't get me wrong - but that doesn't mean I agree with it. If you think the tech reps were the issue then you need to go read more. The major issue for me, as leader of the alliance you are referring to, was the 6 month long terms with full military decom, destruction of wonders and improvements, cancellation of all treaties and a ban on signing new ones as well as a ban on all external aid for the duration. Then the reps on top which were 12K tech and 250 million for an 87 member alliance with 350K NS. The reps were not the issue, the oppressive terms spanning 6 months were. So, no, it is not hypocritical to ask that Valhalla are asked to pay a small amount of reps for their support of the aggressors in this war when compared to what they dished out to an alliance that joined the defensive side of a war Valhalla started back in August. You are free to not agree with me, I honestly don;t care. But for the love of Admin get your facts straight before deciding. Edited May 11, 2009 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobgoblin70 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 The same Hegemony that we're fighting beside in several cases? There was such public outcry over Valhalla "extorting" tech from an alliance that entered into the "noCB" war on a treaty, but now you want us to do the same in the name of "Karma"? Sorry - I don't agree with that. I can see your point of view Tyga, don't get me wrong - but that doesn't mean I agree with it.They were condemned for "stealing 10k tech" but now we're expected to do the same? There is a difference between being aggressive and trying to turn a profit and defending yourself and your allies and being compensated. The word is justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 The same Hegemony that we're fighting beside in several cases? There was such public outcry over Valhalla "extorting" tech from an alliance that entered into the "noCB" war on a treaty, but now you want us to do the same in the name of "Karma"? Sorry - I don't agree with that. I can see your point of view Tyga, don't get me wrong - but that doesn't mean I agree with it. To be fair, those that want harsher terms for Valhalla don't want it because they entered the war on a treaty, but because of other actions in the past, so its not really the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Far too lenient, once again the PR machine has churned and minimilised damage that could have been taken by people by NPOs side. Disgusted. /me takes his seat next to Tyga at the 'big mean man' table Can I sit there too? History... it repeats... I thought we'd learn our lesson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobgoblin70 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 If the alliances that were "mugged" want their tech back or to get their pound of flesh, they had plenty of opportunity to do so - they chose not to. You are correct. I didn't say it was my decision to make, I just said I didn't respect the decision made. However, the alliances further up the treaty chain when all of this started may share some disappointment that their attackers (and their allies that made this all possible) may not receive justice. That would also be something I am not directly involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Can I sit there too? History... it repeats... I thought we'd learn our lesson... Sure, pull up a chair and help yourself to the potato chips. No double dipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 You are correct. I didn't say it was my decision to make, I just said I didn't respect the decision made. However, the alliances further up the treaty chain when all of this started may share some disappointment that their attackers (and their allies that made this all possible) may not receive justice. That would also be something I am not directly involved in. Actually, he is not entirely correct. Sure, anyone could have jumped Valhalla but the war fronts were managed by Karma centrally and most alliances entered wars via treaties only. So, while anyone could have jumped Valhalla during the war it would have shagged up operations and any alliance that did it with out a treaty would have also been howled down as bandwagonners. So, as I said to the procession of posters trotting this excuse out, that just doesn't fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 It is an odd day indeed when I find myself agreeing with Tyga. So be it - welcome to Oddday, May 11, 2009. Do you have any herring flavour potato chips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 To be fair, those that want harsher terms for Valhalla don't want it because they entered the war on a treaty, but because of other actions in the past, so its not really the same thing. I understand they want harsher terms for actions taken in the noCB war, but as I said, we're not here to police past actions - if MK, ODN, STA, etc. wanted to get revenge for the actions they took back then, they could have done it during the war - not after the war was fought when the terms were being put into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 It is an odd day indeed when I find myself agreeing with Tyga. So be it - welcome to Oddday, May 11, 2009. Do you have any herring flavour potato chips? I'm sure some could be ordered. But my calendar says it is Monday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Actually, he is not entirely correct. Sure, anyone could have jumped Valhalla but the war fronts were managed by Karma centrally and most alliances entered wars via treaties only. So, while anyone could have jumped Valhalla during the war it would have shagged up operations and any alliance that did it with out a treaty would have also been howled down as bandwagonners.So, as I said to the procession of posters trotting this excuse out, that just doesn't fly. As in MK being assigned to hit Valhalla but never showing up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 If you think the tech reps were the issue then you need to go read more. The major issue for me, as leader of the alliance you are referring to, was the 6 month long terms with full military decom, destruction of wonders and improvements, cancellation of all treaties and a ban on signing new ones as well as a ban on all external aid for the duration. Then the reps on top which were 12K tech and 250 million for an 87 member alliance with 350K NS. The reps were not the issue, the oppressive terms spanning 6 months were. So, no, it is not hypocritical to ask that Valhalla are asked to pay a small amount of reps for their support of the aggressors in this war when compared to what they dished out to an alliance that joined the defensive side of a war Valhalla started back in August. You are free to not agree with me, I honestly don;t care. But for the love of Admin get your facts straight before deciding. So rather than locking down their aid slots for 90 days, you'd rather we have taken 10,000 tech? Is that what would have made Tyga happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 As in MK being assigned to hit Valhalla but never showing up? I wouldn't have a clue what MK did or didn't do. But you are throwing my alliance's name around and I'm telling you you are full of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobgoblin70 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Actually, he is not entirely correct. Sure, anyone could have jumped Valhalla but the war fronts were managed by Karma centrally and most alliances entered wars via treaties only. So, while anyone could have jumped Valhalla during the war it would have shagged up operations and any alliance that did it with out a treaty would have also been howled down as bandwagonners.So, as I said to the procession of posters trotting this excuse out, that just doesn't fly. I stand corrected by proxy. My point was that somewhere up the treaty chain a Karma ally has been shorted justice by these terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelrat Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 To Valhalla membership, consider yourself very lucky, you fought a fair opponent and you got a 2nd chance not many can say that in CN. I don´t know if all Valhalla rank and file member have any idea how much bad was done in Valhalla´s name. I suggest to ask your leadership and the other parties involved about several incidents mentioned here, you may understand why some here on OWF are mad about you. To MK, you will never walk alone. To STA, i respect you a great deal, you will always find an open door at Grämlins. To Umbrella, FARK, Kronos, Poison Clan, Random Insanity Alliance, Coalition of Royal Allied Powers, Internet Superheroes and Alpha Omega ... one word ... Kudos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 You are correct. I didn't say it was my decision to make, I just said I didn't respect the decision made. However, the alliances further up the treaty chain when all of this started may share some disappointment that their attackers (and their allies that made this all possible) may not receive justice. That would also be something I am not directly involved in. I can understand not liking them, and I can respect that - I would just hope that you would respect our decision despite not liking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobgoblin70 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I can understand not liking them, and I can respect that - I would just hope that you would respect our decision despite not liking it. I respect that it was your decision to make. I hold no ill will toward you for making it, I simply view it as a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 So rather than locking down their aid slots for 90 days, you'd rather we have taken 10,000 tech? Is that what would have made Tyga happy? Oh, here comes the smug! It usually follows when your meme-like excuses dry up. You aren't locking down their aid slots at all, you are allowing them aid from your own alliances. Hell, people just have to leave Valhalla and they can send all the aid they like and be free from the terms. Laughable. If you really cannot fathom that I believe that Valhalla should have had to shell out some tech as reps then I'm really wasting my breath conversing with someone who has no interest in what I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Oh, here comes the smug! It usually follows when your meme-like excuses dry up.You aren't locking down their aid slots at all, you are allowing them aid from your own alliances. Hell, people just have to leave Valhalla and they can send all the aid they like and be free from the terms. Laughable. If you really cannot fathom that I believe that Valhalla should have had to shell out some tech as reps then I'm really wasting my breath conversing with someone who has no interest in what I have to say. But Tyga! That's like super ebil! I mean, that would make losing a war like a bad thing... OMFG! NOOOOOOOO! (Not that selling tech is really a bad thing but whatever, you get the point ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaciaut Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 To Valhalla membership, consider yourself very lucky, you fought a fair opponent and you got a 2nd chance not many can say that in CN. I don´t know if all Valhalla rank and file member have any idea how much bad was done in Valhalla´s name. I suggest to ask your leadership and the other parties involved about several incidents mentioned here, you may understand why some here on OWF are mad about you. To MK, you will never walk alone. To STA, i respect you a great deal, you will always find an open door at Grämlins. To Umbrella, FARK, Kronos, Poison Clan, Random Insanity Alliance, Coalition of Royal Allied Powers, Internet Superheroes and Alpha Omega ... one word ... Kudos Thank you for the well wishes and the voice of reason friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Your a great group of folks Valhalla, and it was an honor to fight alongside you on the field of battle. We hold no ill will for your decision, only respect and gratitude. You gave everything you could, and fought like ferocious warriors, nothing more can be expected. For that, TPF will always be grateful to you all. Were glad to see you have peace now, rest, and rebuild. o/ Valhalla Edited May 11, 2009 by Airikr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 But Tyga! That's like super ebil! I mean, that would make losing a war like a bad thing... OMFG! NOOOOOOOO! (Not that selling tech is really a bad thing but whatever, you get the point ) Yes, clearly in CN the aggressors deserve the spoils if they win the war and a free pass if they lose. The defenders deserve to have their carcass pillaged if they lose and a nice war bill if they win. This world is truly mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) If the alliances that were "mugged" want their tech back or to get their pound of flesh, they had plenty of opportunity to do so - they chose not to. Seriously, $%&@ you and your high horse, if you truly sympathized with where MK, STA and GR are coming from in this thread you wouldn't be speaking to us like complete jackasses. You would instead attempt to respect our opinion instead of belittling us. Most of the people in this thread expressing outrage out of frustration. IF YOU TRULY knew what Valhalla has put us through you would be able to see why people are venting in such a way. Edited May 11, 2009 by AirMe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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