Edward Curella Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) TPF a warrior alliance? Not likely. Did they have a warriors exit from the Unjust War? Certainly not, far from it. Did they have an internal schism/purge/falling out/whatever you want to call it during the NoV/Continuum war that resulted in many of their senior and most respected members leaving and subsequently nearly losing their sanction? They most certainly did. The fact that they have managed to hold together for this war does not earn them the title of a warrior alliance. You have your facts wrong. First exodus happened before the NoV war, so hardly related. Second exodus (which I was part of) happened after the NoV war. Sorry - but it had nothing to do with NoV. The fact that TPF managed to hold together, keep its sanction for one more year after the 1st exodus and still have a solid membership and solid numbers means there's capable and hard-working people in its ranks - who are willing to fight for this alliance till the gates of hell and actually have fun while doing so. And seriously - the entire jibber jabber about UJP is sort of becoming boring and old. It happened what....two years ago? Edited May 13, 2009 by Edward Curella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I would see loving war and being a warrior alliance as two very different things. Those who love war talk the talk. Those who are a warrior alliance walk the walk. I was highlighting the internal issues as an example of TPF failure during war. It's not about talk, it's about attitude. Other than a few infra huggers that every sanctioned alliance acquires (and just about all of whom have already left), everyone in TPF is willing to go to ZI for the alliance, and not grimly, but with smiles on our faces and all guns blazing. The vibe I get is that most everyone here is having the most fun they've ever had in CN. And doing what? Going to ZI for TPF and our friends. THAT is what makes a warrior alliance. As E_C said, the issues you speak of did not happen during a war. And you ignored my response to your UJW comment. Come on. Would YOU fight for an ally who did that crap? Lastly, sorry I missed this... I read the post before you edited it. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) You have your facts wrong.First exodus happened before the NoV war, so hardly related. Second exodus (which I was part of) happened after the NoV war. Sorry - but it had nothing to do with NoV. OOC: That's not true. I looked back at the sanction race and less than a month into the NoV/Continuum war TPF was bleeding members. I remember it vividly as I was constantly pointing it out and was told to keep my politics out of the thread Go ahead and look for yourself. TPF's rapid fall even rejuvenated a conversation about how the member limit for a sanction should be relooked at because if TPF had lost their sanction (which they were extremely close to doing) MA would have becomed sanctioned and they were ranked 17th in score. I've done some research into what I've said. Sorry to burst your rhetoric bubble. And seriously - the entire jibber jabber about UJP is sort of becoming boring and old. It happened what....two years ago? We're still talking about TPF right? Whether it be two weeks or two years your military history is how you will be judged a military alliance or an alliance that thrives off war. It's not about talk, it's about attitude. A lame duck with the attitude of a lion is still a lame duck. Edited May 13, 2009 by Captain Flinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Curella Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) OOC: That's not true. I looked back at the sanction race and less than a month into the NoV/Continuum war TPF was bleeding members. I remember it vividly as I was constantly pointing it out and was told to keep my politics out of the thread Go ahead and look for yourself. TPF's rapid fall even rejuvenated a conversation about how the member limit for a sanction should be relooked at because if TPF had lost their sanction (which they were extremely close to doing) MA would have becomed sanctioned and they were ranked 17th in score. I've done some research into what I've said. Sorry to burst your rhetoric bubble. Whatever floats your boat. Once the 2nd exodus started - the NoV war had long been initiated and NoV itself was hardly an opponent. While I disagreed with the reasoning behind that war - I can assure you it was never the motivating factor for all the resignations. I remember Geopet having a great time while reading your posts and how you believed it was all about NoV when in fact...it wasn't. But yeah - sure. If it helps you feel better or important - go for it. We're still talking about TPF right? Whether it be two weeks or two years your military history is how you will be judged a military alliance or an alliance that thrives off war. The decisions made by leadership at the time to leave the war should in no way represent how the general members faced the conflict. If you're going to take TPF's military power at the time as the general rule - keep in mind you are referring to Gantan, JBone, Chinatownbus and many others who we all know to be passionate about war. It's amazing how quickly everyone assumes TPF had no balls in that war - when I know many who have fought in that conflict in the best way they could. All of them were never willing to abandon the battle field and only did so because the decision making body at the time thought it was appropriate given the reason. Even if I were to take your logic as valid, you're forgetting one small detail. TPF's membership nowadays is completely different from its membership from two years ago. Unless you believe every single TPF member should carry over things done by people who were in this alliance long before them. I'm perhaps silly - but I do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. So far, our members have been showing great resolution and determination - I can only admire them for it. Edited May 13, 2009 by Edward Curella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 People don't realize how many huge personalities were in TPF during the NoV war, we couldn't keep that much ego all in one place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravnica Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 A small fraction of my post had to do with the UJP. Did you even read it? Mhawk never reads. He gave reading the hard six when he was young. I can see TPF thriving off of the war, sure. I think the war games held between TPF and PC proved that most of the warriors left a long time ago. TPF is at, what? Forty percent of pre-war strength? If that's "thriving", then damn, a lot of Hedgemony alliances are thriving! O: People don't realize how many huge personalities were in TPF during the NoV war, we couldn't keep that much ego all in one place. Ego doesn't win you wars. There's very few places you can shove that ego... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 TPF is at, what? Forty percent of pre-war strength? If that's "thriving", then damn, a lot of Hedgemony alliances are thriving! O:Ego doesn't win you wars. There's very few places you can shove that ego... I know it's absolutely shocking after a few weeks of being on the losing end of a gangbang you lose more than half your ns, and I was referring to the topic that was being discussed and explained why there were so many splits after that war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Whatever floats your boat. Once the 2nd exodus started - the NoV war had long been initiated and NoV itself was hardly an opponent. While I disagreed with the reasoning behind that war - I can assure you it was never the motivating factor for all the resignations. It's not about what floats my boat. While the numbers do indeed support my claims, the numbers also speak for themselves. The fact of the matter is that for an alliance that claims to thrive on war, you historically have not. You can sugar coat or dodge or evade that point but it stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) It's not about what floats my boat. While the numbers do indeed support my claims, the numbers also speak for themselves. The fact of the matter is that for an alliance that claims to thrive on war, you historically have not. You can sugar coat or dodge or evade that point but it stands. I do believe E_C is saying that the NoV war was hardly a war at that point, and the departures were not due to the war. That's like saying that everyone who's left NPO since December 07 left because of the FAN war, or everyone who left GOONS during the FARK war did it because of that, etc. It really has nothing to do with our fighting spirit being intact during that war or not. -Bama Edited May 14, 2009 by BamaBuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I do believe E_C is saying that the NoV war was hardly a war at that point, and the departures were not due to the war. That's like saying that everyone who's left NPO since December 07 left because of the FAN war, or everyone who left GOONS during the FARK war did it because of that, etc. It really has nothing to do with our fighting spirit being intact during that war or not. -Bama Except I'm talking about a large amount of members leaving within a small period of time. Less than a month for the most part. Again, you can marginalize it if you want but thriving alliances do not bleed members and they especially do not bleed some of their most senior and respected members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I was disappointed to open a thread that I thought was light battlefield banter to find it had devolved into acrimonious bickering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Except I'm talking about a large amount of members leaving within a small period of time. Less than a month for the most part. Again, you can marginalize it if you want but thriving alliances do not bleed members and they especially do not bleed some of their most senior and respected members. That is just plain ignorant. I could probably start a list. Regardless, yes, TPF has had major internal issues in the past. And how does that show that we don't have a strong fighting spirit today? -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I was disappointed to open a thread that I thought was light battlefield banter to find it had devolved into acrimonious bickering. A nicely timed voice of reason. I, for one, would like to keep talking to peeps from Mushroom Kingdom, as that was the original intent of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 A nicely timed voice of reason. I, for one, would like to keep talking to peeps from Mushroom Kingdom, as that was the original intent of the thread. Agreed. I don't remember how exactly my comment about our morale turned into this big NO U fest, but I'm done arguing about it. Apologies for helping to derail the thread. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 That is just plain ignorant. I could probably start a list. Regardless, yes, TPF has had major internal issues in the past. And how does that show that we don't have a strong fighting spirit today?-Bama /lesigh I'm not saying TPF doesn't have a fighting spirit. I was protesting the theory that they are an alliance that thrives on war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 /lesighI'm not saying TPF doesn't have a fighting spirit. I was protesting the theory that they are an alliance that thrives on war. Well, that's more or less what I meant. Ah well. So CCC and FoB, how goes it? -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 A nicely timed voice of reason. I, for one, would like to keep talking to peeps from Mushroom Kingdom, as that was the original intent of the thread. Amen, can't we all just pass the shrooms, and sit back and giggle uncontrollably? MK, share please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Boris Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Well, that's more or less what I meant. Ah well.So CCC and FoB, how goes it? -Bama I for one am enjoying the nuclear glow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Amen, can't we all just pass the shrooms, and sit back and giggle uncontrollably? MK, share please. oooooooh..... make sure to get some nuclear powered shrooms. those are the bestest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 oooooooh..... make sure to get some nuclear powered shrooms. those are the bestest. ooohh! Glowing shrooms. MK! We need you! You supply the shrooms, we'll supply the radiation. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Those aren't strawmen. Those are examples of your performance in military engagements. You might want to look up what a strawman fallacy actually is. OOC: An OOC attack like labeling an alliance a "White Supremacist Alliance"? TPF would never associate themselves with such terrible OOC attacks right? Actually, neither of your examples has anything to do with the the engagement portion of either war you mentioned. This very important distinction is what qualifies them as strawmen you as lacking in sufficient faculties to carry this conversation any further forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I was disappointed to open a thread that I thought was light battlefield banter to find it had devolved into acrimonious bickering. My apologies. I don't have the power to keep Flanders from stinking up the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Actually, neither of your examples has anything to do with the the engagement portion of either war you mentioned. This very important distinction is what qualifies them as strawmen you as lacking in sufficient faculties to carry this conversation any further forward. My examples have everything to do with how TPF conducts itself and holds itself during war. What you do on the battlefield is only one part of being a warrior alliance and it certainly is only one fraction of "thriving" during war time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 My examples have everything to do with how TPF conducts itself and holds itself during war. What you do on the battlefield is only one part of being a warrior alliance and it certainly is only one fraction of "thriving" during war time. I've decided it's best we all just ignore mr. flinders. He has his ideas, we'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 oooooooh..... make sure to get some nuclear powered shrooms. those are the bestest. I'm taking a bite out of one myself. They taste pretty good, and they make you all tingly inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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