Offical Announcement from Terra Prime

[cowen70]

Helping to disband an alliance is not something i would be too proud of )):

Good luck TP members I hope you all find good homes. It saddens me to see any alliance disband.

o/ TP may this name rest in peace

I can assure you Jens didn't mean it like that.

[Roadie]

There was a suggestion of reps, but from the logs shown there was never the mention of the amount of the reps. And even then reps could of worked out to be a joint rebuilding program between the 2 alliances, but that didn't get discussed because TP already made their minds up to disband. So let TP rest in peace and stop laying blame on Karma, PC or any other alliance.

It's sad to see an alliance decide to disband. I wish all those in TP well on their futures in Tempest or any other alliance they decide to go to.

Good luck TP o/

We can still blame TPF though, right? Cuz I kinda wanna stick with the lunch money storey.

[Kyle Smith]

It was great working with you guys at TP through OPP. Your presence here on Planet Bob will surely be missed. Please feel free to get a hold of me if you need any help.

o/ TP

[deathcat]

Septer, you were truely an inspiration to small alliances throughout BOB.. I've known you a long time and it saddens me to see your precious TP come to this. I new you from my days in Elysium before you even formed TP and have to say it was my favorite small alliance. You are a very honorable and valued member of this Planet and Hope that the future is brighter than this bleak moment in time seems to be. After this war, feel free to contact any of us for any help you need. Best of luck my friend.

oo/ TP (Gone but not forgotten)

oo/ Septer

Best Regards,

DC

[Archon]

I so have to read up on all the DoWs. I didn't even know Terra Prime was at war with MK.

O Great And Wise One, would you kindly point me in the right direction of required reading materials?

I believe that would be the queries from Akasha of Valhalla and ligolski of Tempest asking me to come speak with TP concerning this incident. But please, continue to run your mouth as though you have any idea of what happened. Don't let your own ignorance stop you.

[Kevin Cash]

There was a suggestion of reps, but from the logs shown there was never the mention of the amount of the reps. And even then reps could of worked out to be a joint rebuilding program between the 2 alliances, but that didn't get discussed because TP already made their minds up to disband. So let TP rest in peace and stop laying blame on Karma, PC or any other alliance.

It's sad to see an alliance decide to disband. I wish all those in TP well on their futures in Tempest or any other alliance they decide to go to.

Good luck TP o/

oh, silly me, i forgot how karma likes to justify its hypocracy. if what you say is true (which i highly doubt, why did you not make an effort to clarify that tp had other options in the discussions?), why do so many of you wear sigs that contain names like tdsm8 who disbanded during peacetime for internal reasons? nevermind those pesky facts, they jut get in the way of what you want to believe! nevermind that goons \m/ and genmay were killed of by polar, nevermind that a number of those disbandments had nothing to do with npo. every post you make twists the truth to your convenience, this goes for all of karma

[Firkked]

[ooc] I have stated the following in another discussion and felt that it should also be stated here [/ooc]

Should the forces labelled as "The Hegemony" be given harsh terms at then end of this war?

That depends on far too many factors and there is no blanket response, thus invalidating the question. Each situation is specific to the circumstances that brought the nation and/or alliance to this conflict, how much they fought and the length of their resistance before coming before the bargaining table.

Is there a difference between a minor alliance that fought bitterly against all comers until the very last battle of this war or the major alliance government member who surrendered at the first hint of tanks rolling across their borders?

I feel that it is true that the "Hegemony" nations are nervous about how the "Karma" nations will handle the terms of the post war environment and that it is up to the participants directly involved that should be making that determination, not public opinion.

Will there be harsh terms meted out? (Yes)

Will there be unfairness in some of the terms? (yes)

Can this be avoided? (No)

Should public opinion guide the process? (No)

For my part in this I expect somewhat harsh terms.

I knowingly exchanged my security at the expense of the freedoms of other nations and alliance both as a member and in the low levels of government of a major alliance.

Although I had left the major alliance several months before this current conflict my new, smaller alliance was still firmly in the "Hegemony" camp. Thus I found myself on the battlefield arrayed against forces nominally under the "Karma" aegis.

They won. My alliance lost, disbanded in fact.

I still remain defiant and unapologetic.

I made my choices and I refuse to surrender to the opponents I have met so far, I will retain my disbanded AA and I will take the wrath of the entire planet before I break.

[The Manbearpig]

From what I've heard, good show TP. I'm sad to say I barely got to know you all.

[Roadie]

I believe that would be the queries from Akasha of Valhalla and ligolski of Tempest asking me to come speak with TP concerning this incident. But please, continue to run your mouth as though you have any idea of what happened. Don't let your own ignorance stop you.

Thank you. I've been trying to figure out who runs the show so we know who to demand reps from when this war is over.

Okay, maybe not so much.

Edit: When we both hit ZI (I bet I beat ya there!) we can compare notes.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Roadie

[Roadie]

[ooc] I have stated the following in another discussion and felt that it should also be stated here [/ooc]

Should the forces labelled as "The Hegemony" be given harsh terms at then end of this war?

That depends on far too many factors and there is no blanket response, thus invalidating the question. Each situation is specific to the circumstances that brought the nation and/or alliance to this conflict, how much they fought and the length of their resistance before coming before the bargaining table.

Is there a difference between a minor alliance that fought bitterly against all comers until the very last battle of this war or the major alliance government member who surrendered at the first hint of tanks rolling across their borders?

I feel that it is true that the "Hegemony" nations are nervous about how the "Karma" nations will handle the terms of the post war environment and that it is up to the participants directly involved that should be making that determination, not public opinion.

Will there be harsh terms meted out? (Yes)

Will there be unfairness in some of the terms? (yes)

Can this be avoided? (No)

Should public opinion guide the process? (No)

For my part in this I expect somewhat harsh terms.

I knowingly exchanged my security at the expense of the freedoms of other nations and alliance both as a member and in the low levels of government of a major alliance.

Although I had left the major alliance several months before this current conflict my new, smaller alliance was still firmly in the "Hegemony" camp. Thus I found myself on the battlefield arrayed against forces nominally under the "Karma" aegis.

They won. My alliance lost, disbanded in fact.

I still remain defiant and unapologetic.

I made my choices and I refuse to surrender to the opponents I have met so far, I will retain my disbanded AA and I will take the wrath of the entire planet before I break.

/v\ Firkked /v\

[Beauty]

Terra Prime, We shall not forget thee.

Sad day for alot of folks.

[Affluenza]

Would you say that if it was Mushroom Kingdom disbanding?

These announcements are always sad.

If MK hadn't contributed to Bob then I would. TP had had very little if any impact on Bob.

I dislike alliances that just believe existing is enough...

[OOC] This is a game would one play Monopoly to just exist and survive? I beleive that if one wants to set up an alliance then one should have a goal or objective...that s why I would never join an alliance that hasn't got something going for itself. Like-wise if I was to set-up an alliance I would do it with the spirit that it would be contributing to the game.

[Rebel Virginia]

I fail to see why reps were even requested here. For doing damage? Both TP and FSO entered this war knowing they were going to get hurt. This was not a surprise attack. This was a global war. Quite frankly the only alliance that has any legitimacy in asking for reps would be OV, since they were the original alliance attacked and did not enter of their own volition.

Furthermore no justice is served by requesting reps from Terra Prime. They have committed no crimes, and merely followed a treaty. NPO, GGA, etc. I can understand. But this alliance? Even NATO, who's actions led to the disbandment of ACV, got off with white peace. Reparations from this alliance is simply unnecessary and is nothing more than a gross abuse of power.

[twodivine]

oh, silly me, i forgot how karma likes to justify its hypocracy. if what you say is true (which i highly doubt, why did you not make an effort to clarify that tp had other options in the discussions?), why do so many of you wear sigs that contain names like tdsm8 who disbanded during peacetime for internal reasons? nevermind those pesky facts, they jut get in the way of what you want to believe! nevermind that goons \m/ and genmay were killed of by polar, nevermind that a number of those disbandments had nothing to do with npo. every post you make twists the truth to your convenience, this goes for all of karma

Why I didn't make an effort? I wasn't anywhere close to that meeting or invited cause it wasn't my alliances fight to get involved in. And if you read CTB's logs he does ask if they are sure about the disbandment. He did ask, and then proceeded to talk about the path that TP picked for itself.

With regards to GOONS, \m/, and Genmay, there were a lot more than just Polar involved with those disbandment's. And since that time there has not been any forced disbandment's of alliances. I could go into reasons why or how they came to an end but that is the past and this thread is about TP and their choice. Debating the past doesn't change the past.

[Haflinger]

If MK hadn't contributed to Bob then I would. TP had had very little if any impact on Bob.

TP were smaller than MK, and didn't last as long. But they had an impact on some of us. In particular, I think you're seeing the friends they made here in Purple mourn their passing.

Just because you didn't know them doesn't mean they didn't have an impact.

(Wow alotta negatives there.)

[ChairmanHal]

From the logs provided by PC, it appears that an attempt was made to negotiate peace by TP, the PC protectorate demanded reps for peace, and TP not being able to pay any reps, disbanded.

Now, could TP have at least asked what the reps would be? Yes, however...given that reps beyond fair market rate for tech have not been asked for to my knowledge by any single member of Karma or its allies in this war, the act of asking for reps in this case was an extremely poor show. Many alliances have suffered greatly, far more than whatever the PC protectorate had in mind for reps, yet they shook hands with their opponents and walked away. Do those that asked for reps somehow think the more special than the others? Guess what, you're not.

PC claims that they have no responsibility in this. Wrong. You as protector and someone who claims to have at least daily contact with your protectorates could have called an immediate halt to the proceedings and pulled the protectorate aside to ask them why they were demanding reps, which as previously stated went against the general conduct of this war. I see no evidence that this took place, instead I see what amounts to an "oh well."

I do not believe that Karma's high command is at fault here. From the evidence I see in this thread, you are/were doing your best to sort this out and were not informed until after the fact.

I wish the former members of Terra Prime good luck with the future and may prosperity follow you into the future.

Edited May 5, 2009 by ChairmanHal

[JWConner]

Sad to see you all go TP. We had many good dealings with you all. Always a bummer to see a small alliance disband.

And to those that feel the need to be negative and/or recruit from the disbanding members...you're pathetic!

[Great Lakes Union]

Sad to see this. TP, you guys were a great group.

If MK hadn't contributed to Bob then I would. TP had had very little if any impact on Bob.

I dislike alliances that just believe existing is enough...

They had an impact on their friends and allies. Just because they didn't shout loudly, or cause much drama does not diminish that.

[Blacky]

Sad to see any alliance disband. Pressing the 'disband alliance' button on an alliance should always be the last option. Please for the love of admin, could the protectors of smaller alliances be present at these negotiations so that this might not happen again for the duration of this war?

Yes, however...given that reps beyond fair market rate for tech have not been asked for to my knowledge by any single member of Karma or its allies in this war, the act of asking for reps in this case was an extremely poor show.

I don't know if reps that go beyond fair market trade in a joint rebuilding program were going to be asked for but if so you are right in that it was a poor show. Though I'm inclined to believe it may very well have been light reps in the form of market rate tech deals.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Blacky

[cowen70]

The conversation took place in an extremely short amount of time we barely had a chance to get into what would be asked for, as is the case for another peace we are negotiating we are going down the route of tech deals.

I said that the discussion would have to wait until I could get PC and TP into a room with me, since PC have to be present to negotiate a peace. Before anything more could be done TP disbanded.

Chairman Hal I realise you are fiercly desperate to paint a bad picture and run negative PR but your not going to have a whole lot of success here.

(blacky bolded for you)

Edited May 5, 2009 by cowen70

[Chinatownbus]

From the logs provided by PC, it appears that an attempt was made to negotiate peace by TP, the PC protectorate demanded reps for peace, and TP not being able to pay any reps, disbanded.

Now, could TP have at least asked what the reps would be? Yes, however...given that reps beyond fair market rate for tech have not been asked for to my knowledge by any single member of Karma or its allies in this war, the act of asking for reps in this case was an extremely poor show. Many alliances have suffered greatly, far more than whatever the PC protectorate had in mind for reps, yet they shook hands with their opponents and walked away. Do those that asked for reps somehow think the more special than the others? Guess what, you're not.

PC claims that they have no responsibility in this. Wrong. You as protector and someone who claims to have at least daily contact with your protectorates could have called an immediate halt to the proceedings and pulled the protectorate aside to ask them why they were demanding reps, which as previously stated went against the general conduct of this war. I see no evidence that this took place, instead I see what amounts to an "oh well."

I do not believe that Karma's high command is at fault here. From the evidence I see in this thread, you are/were doing your best to sort this out and were not informed until after the fact.

I wish the former members of Terra Prime good luck with the future and may prosperity follow you into the future.

There were no proceedings.

TFO (specifically Cowen70) said, without consulting me: "well we'd like reps but i have to talk to CTB"

TP disbanded

I talked to TP and asked them if they were sure about disbanding, after clarifying that no reps had actually been asked for. Septer was set on disbanding his alliance as a knee jerk reaction to the mere prospect of paying reps, without any reps even being negotiated. I asked if he was dead set on the course of action, he said yes, Tempest said yes, so I moved on. Why should I care more about Septer's alliance than he does?

I don't know why I even bother.

[Buds The Man]

If MK hadn't contributed to Bob then I would. TP had had very little if any impact on Bob.

I dislike alliances that just believe existing is enough...

[OOC] This is a game would one play Monopoly to just exist and survive? I beleive that if one wants to set up an alliance then one should have a goal or objective...that s why I would never join an alliance that hasn't got something going for itself. Like-wise if I was to set-up an alliance I would do it with the spirit that it would be contributing to the game.

I disagree sir TP did have an impact maybe not globaly but with in the purple sphere. If some one is killed in Antartica does it effect me not really but it does effect some one, absolutely it does, your statement about them mearly existing is false and unfounded.

Once again TP sorry to see this decision good luck to all in their further journeys on PB.

[rebound]

My goodness.. shame to see this thread turned into this. Terra Prime decided it was best to disband, not septer by himself and not simply because "the mere prospect of reps" what an awfull thing to say, hang your head in shame mate, and slap cowen in the face for thinking he should get reps just because he copted a few nukes.

o/ Terra Prime will not be forgotten

o/ to all our friends thanks for the messages of support.

Edited May 5, 2009 by rebound

[enderland]

Now, could TP have at least asked what the reps would be? Yes, however...given that reps beyond fair market rate for tech have not been asked for to my knowledge by any single member of Karma or its allies in this war, the act of asking for reps in this case was an extremely poor show. Many alliances have suffered greatly, far more than whatever the PC protectorate had in mind for reps, yet they shook hands with their opponents and walked away. Do those that asked for reps somehow think the more special than the others? Guess what, you're not.

Is this the best you've got?

"Everyone else you are aligned with is so much better than you that you look bad hahahahahah"

Like, seriously?

I don't understand why an alliance would just disband in this nature, because seriously, it doesn't make sense at all.

[Hob Dobson]

I don't understand why an alliance would just disband in this nature, because seriously, it doesn't make sense at all.

Much earlier in the discussion it was pointed out that Terra Prime was going through more difficulties than just the prospect of reparations. While I do not like the ultimate outcome, I do understand that holding an alliance together - even without external pressures - is not at all easy.

As long as the members have a place to hang their hats without being raided into oblivion, that would be enough for me as an outsider to ask.