Because I will honor my word.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Holding the belief that there is to be a clear and concise demarcation between the occurrences in this realm and the other one, it is at times like these that i see the wisdom of that belief.

Wentworth, there are, as you correctly surmised a lot of people on Planet Bob that have been waiting for some apology or recognition of this event out in the open. Not talking about something that has angered people, pushing it under the carpet as people have had to do for so long in this as well as many other episodes in PB's sordid history, leads to festering sentiment. That can never be a good thing.

Now that it has been posted and discussed, i am hoping that some of the anger and angst would dissipate. There are those among us that still do and will do for some time to come, mourn the passing of ACV from this realm. ACV was an alliance with so much promise and it is still difficult to accept that a great alliance and a staunch ally is no more.

The fact that it was iClean himself that prevented a backlash when the news of this betrayal first started filtering in, and the anger amongst alliance governments started building up (at that time) and fireworks were imminent, should speak volumes about the character of the man and those that cared for him.

All in all, it is good to see this apology and yes i hope that it has provided a closure, even though it may not seem so to some today, to the sordid episode.

[Lucas Perry]

I miss iClean.

However, everyone (including myself) makes decisions that they later regret. It's alright, Wentworth, you did what you felt was right.

[Xiphosis]

I'd just been kicked out of my house and was without internet (no wifi adaptor) when the iClean betrayal was going on, and was sadly absent from what was going on. I pushed for war over it when I came back, but he was already well on his way to ZI and a 'deal' had been struck.

I don't go out and seek people to hold anything against. I've done, actually, the opposite. I drew a line - don't touch me or my allies and I'll leave you well alone. Many people, a shocking amount of people, crossed that line and in some disgusting and scummy ways. You were among them, and none of them will be forgiven unless they pay in the same way as the ones they tormented.

I was like you once. Not nearly as bad, but bad nonetheless. I paid for it. You will to.

[A Soviet Attack]

Yeah, everyone betrays their friends. It's the natural thing to do, that's why we call them friends! Or something.

[caligula]

hm... >.>

[Smacky]

Apologies are swell but it doesn't change what you did, or forgive the contemptible betrayal of your so called friend. Everyone gets what they deserve eventually and for you this incarnation of Karma isn't it.

There is a special place reserved for traitors and false friends.

[Tomcat]

It takes a lot of guts to make an apology like this.

You've got my respect if nothing else.

[JakeFeatherston]

I loved ACV. ACV was the one of finest allies that GUN has ever had the pleasure of meeting.

GUN did all that it could it could to try to prevent ACV from disbanding. I can't say that I'm pleased to learn that one of the alliances that GUN resolutely trusted apparently back stabbed our dear allies in ACV in the back. Hard.

As a mere observer to this issue, I'll reserve further comments for private channels.

Edited May 1, 2009 by JakeFeatherston

[kingzog]

I remember this was mentioned to me at the time, but because it did not concern me directly I had only a passing interest in the matter. (I always liked ACV for some reason. No idea why.)

That you used information from a private conversation between two friends speaking, as you admit, in an "OOC" manner leaves an especially bad taste in my mouth.

It is good that you have apologized for it. Kudos for that.

For there to be full restitution in this matter, however, iClean should return to CN and you should personally oversee rebuilding efforts, regardless of how long this might take.

(Or....iClean can simply accept the apology and the two of you can move on.)

[Kevin McDonald]

Thank you for the kind words Kingzog, I always liked you too for some reason, though I don't know why (OOC: I'm not in the habit of liking people from Ajax.)

To those who missed it, iClean has posted in this thread and has foregiven Wentworth for some, if not all, of his actions.

[Paladin of The Republic]

iClean old friend, I can say you are truly a better man than I, as I can't say forgiveness would have some so easily for me. If it came at all.

o7 iClean

o7 ACV

[mykep]

The Armed Coalition of Valor deserves to be brought back. It deserves reps and NATO on THIER lap. Its pathetic that you had to go and pull a Slayer and take someout out of RL context and place it in this. As Balder put it, not accepted.

ACV had potential and could have been a great asset in the sphere and CN Politics. They were unique and deserved respect. I miss them and hope someday they or something resembling them returns to the Aqua sphere.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

I would totally be up for having ACV back, it was a sad day that ACV disbanded. A major loss to Aqua, and to those that held it dear. One may wonder what was so special about this alliance, and different people will tell you different things. Some might just say that they felt like good friends all the time. That is why this entire affair rankles so much. Friendship betrayed is at the bottom of this.

[gfloyd2002]

Great to see iClean/Balder back publicly, someone I'm proud to call a friend. Kudos also to Wentworth for a brave post - not much more the guy can do but own his choice, apologize and try to make it right. This is a good step towards resolution, one that might be complete if we could see KMac, Balder and the whole crew back together again. So what about it guys?

[Tiberius]

I always wondered who had ratted iClean out, this apology is way too late for me though I am glad you have apologised. We will never truly have iClean back in this game, though he lives on as a new character.

Cress.

[Balder]

Ah, yes, the iClean ZI incident... I remember it well...

For those of you wandering wtf I'm talking about, you would know if you were an active NADCer a few months back.

Sigh... before I get too far heated let me just say simply;

NADC was not involved in anything that happened. Stop trying to pretend your alliance mattered. The ACV was THIS close to rolling you.

This is a good step towards resolution, one that might be complete if we could see KMac, Balder and the whole crew back together again. So what about it guys?

Wait a few months.

:jihad:

And with that, I exit this thread.

[Jonathan Archer]

iClean was a cool guy when he lead ACV, though I didn't know him too well back then, and it was sad to see him get forced out like that. Having gotten to know him further in his new persona, it makes me rather angry that a good guy like him got back-stabbed by someone who was his friend.

However it's still good to see this apology despite it not being able to undo those events. Congrats on realizing your error, no matter how late this realization may be.

[Archon]

While this is touching and all, it's a damn shame that it took being on the losing side of a brutal war that cannot stand these sorts of acts for this apology to come out.

[King Tom]

While this is touching and all, it's a damn shame that it took being on the losing side of a brutal war that cannot stand these sorts of acts for this apology to come out.

Beter late than never.

[Morskov]

I miss ACV alot. My best times in CN were with them.

But, the past is the past.

[Shamed]

Beter late than never.

Not when you didn't even do this by choice...

[Deadshot]

Not when you didn't even do this by choice...

Actually, you are wrong. I was never forced by anyone to make an apology. This comes of my own free will. Please get your facts straight before commenting on something you know nothing about.

[SpacingOutMan]

Seemingly heartfelt, remorseful, makeup of potential change... the solid apology. I sure hope it doesn't garner you forgiveness. Though I didn't know iClean personally, or really on any level for that matter, I find it utterly despicable that his sentence sprung from an OOC conversation between two (close?) friends.

Let this be your lesson learned: though you have apologized, any trust people have in you through this game will be tarnished to at least a minimal capacity. Thus you reap what you sow: betrayal oft begets betrayal and distrust.

[fireguy15207]

Not when you didn't even do this by choice...

Wentworth was never forced to apologize (I have the logs from when Big Z !@#$%*ed at me in query because I didn't include them in the peace terms to prove it). I had asked Wentworth to post one, which he had done before he even saw the query I left for him.

[Buffalo Niagara]

Being a former member of NATO for almost 2 years and a former government official there, I have to say that many of the FA moves made by NATO were kept close to the chest, so to be honest, I wasn't actually involved in this matter.

Lets speak of the character of Wentworth the Brave. Wentworth did what each of us would do. He saw a potential threat to his alliance, and his allies, and made that threat known. Folks read the treaties..he was honor bound to do so. While some don't believe that, I have known Went for about a year now, and it is true. At the time, it may have been the right decision. Looking back causing the death of an alliance I am positive was NOT his intention.

I have left NATO twice in my CN life. Once on frustration and pure emotion which Wentworth called me out for stating I was a selfish $%^%$$#$#. The second time was to form Olympus. Both times were extremely hard on myself as well as NATO. NATO is and always will be my family, regardless of treaties, or other in game issues. Has NATO made mistakes in the past? Yep...but haven't we all?

Some in this thread state actions speak louder than words. Lets look at the actions and see if they back up the words shall we? NATO walked away from NPO due to their concerns on the current conflict being ignored, and proper notice on the aggressive action wasn't given to allies. If they stood by NPO they were the great evil Satan. If they didn't they were in the eyes of many, infra lovers. They instead chose to defend others. Also for the record yes this is true and yes this did happen this way as Olympus and NATO were discussing our future together at the time and I asked multiple leaders in NATO what their intentions were. Timeframe on all this was the very beginning of the conflict.

A treaty partner acted in a way that ignored the basis of the treaty and in response of NATO among others, canceled said treaty with NPO. Again they were chastised for making it effective immediately, rather than honoring the cancellation terms. But if a treaty partner acts in an aggressive manner and doesn't inform their allies, are the allies really committed to the action not knowing if all avenues of diplomacy were used prior to the conflict? I support NATO's immediate cancel of the treaties with NPO, on principle alone. If an ally won't allow your input, ignores your opinion, and goes and does something you disagree with, why should you have to stand by them.

Fast forward to the last few days. MHA, FARK and NATO have grown apart since the days of the UJW. Friends yes, committed to aqua peace, yes. MDP or higher partners...I don't think so. The treaty web alone shows that. Again leading up to the conflict I was told NATO was reviewing her treaties. I'm glad to see moves like this as it SHOWS change.

These two changes can be said to be a marriage of NATO politics and convenience. Those of you with memories of UJW might even cite the issues from then. But, that would mean that your holding current leadership to the faults of others from the past...you all realize that Anu is the only one left in government from that time right? btw...Anu, I still stand behind that decision.

Wentworth is a man of dedication and honor. While some of the ways things have been done in the past with NATO may have been questionable by some. The decisions made, were the right ones at the time for the alliance as a whole. Can you fault them for those decisions? Sure can...but, as I have said in other discussions and what has been said here holds true...you reap what you sow.

I leave with this. Its easy for a man to point out a splinter in another mans eye. Whats hard is seeing the two by four in their own.

Wentworth, thank you for standing by NATO and turning the ole girl around again back to the correct route that made us all fall in love with her in the first place. I love the direction you all are going and it is the right one. Keep the good work up brother, for this too shall pass.

iClean- I'm sorry as well for the actions undertook as I was in NATO at the time. Kev and crew are great people and if you all do rebuild ACV look Olympus up. It would be our honor to assist you in rebuilding her.

to the rest of cyberverse- If iClean and Wentworth can move on and look into the future, cant the rest of us?

o/ ACV

o/ NATO