Alejandro Villalba Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) To those that might interest, to the side of Karma, and the New Pacific Order. First i wish to congratulate the group known as Karma, for their bravery on standing against tyranny. Even if we were on both sides of the aisle, and i might have thought of some cunning remarks that might have been considered trollish, your bravery amazes me. To our allies in the Hegemony. You all came in honoring your treaties, and i applaud you for that. My second part of the letter is simple, how peace can be achieved. It is clear who the victor here is, there is no dispute Karma has allready won. Now my plan to achieve peace are simple. 1. NPO must sign an apology too Ordo Verde for its agressions. 2. Ordo Verde must post an apology for the screenshots from the NPO private forums. 3. NPO must pay reparations to all Karma involved alliances. 4. NPO must pay reparations to all Hegemony involved alliances. 5. The Hegemony and Karma alliances must participate in a tech deal. 6. NPO must cancel the Moldavi Doctrine, allowing other red alliances to prosper without their consent. [such accords only diminishes the fun of the game] 7. NPO must aid any alliance that tries to enter the red sphere. Anyone can throw things at this sort of treaties, but i want you all to know that it is simple, it is neutral. I do not defend any side of this war, we must all admit mistakes. To the NPO, if a peace deal isn't achieved soon, your beatings will continue, and your allies will continue to abandon you. Now i know this is, in someways mad, but i would like to add something to the list. An 8th section, that many will see controversial, but we all saw how the Continuum failed. Before i bid my farewells to you all. 8. The Continuum bloc must be dissbanded, and another bloc must replace it, with less harsher terms. For those others that might want to join Now some of you are going to say "Who is this nobody, he doesn't know how we do things." that is true, i am a nobody in my alliance, my nation is just a simple soilder, i swore not to get involved in alliance politics. But i do know one thing, whatever it is that the Continuum did, to protect their alliances, has failed. Now i must say my goodbye. Ok goodbye -Nueva Esparta Edited April 30, 2009 by Alejandro Villalba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rahl Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 1. NPO had a valid CB. Why would they apologize for that? 2. Yes 3. No. The ones they fought maybe, not ALL. 4. Why? Makes zero sense. 5. Extortion. 6. Hurts unaligneds. 7. What?! Where's the reasoning behind this? 8. Forced disbandment is one of the things karma is supposedly fighting against. Also, forced creation of a new bloc? How? and why? This is in no way neutral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobama Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 1. Okay. 2. Sure. 3. I'd like to see that. 4. I doubt their allies would take it but okay. 5. Why? 6. I support this. 7. This doesn't make much sense. 8. What is the point of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 1. NPO had a valid CB. Why would they apologize for that? People still believe this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 People still believe this? Some of the stupid ones do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 6. Hurts unaligneds. No it doesn't. I think you are confusing the Moldavi doctrine with the Revenge Doctrine. Moldavi Doctrine is just for alliances not being allowed on red, not the Red Protection Court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geiseric Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 1. I think the NPO deserves a letter of thank you, rather than them making an apology. CN radio was interesting, the OWF is interesting, the IRC is bustling. 2. Ditto, OV too. 3. Errr, weren't this the thing that Karma wants to avoid? Well I dunno, maybe some reps, but not that extravagant. 4. That depends on what their talks. 5. Nope, I'd rather do mine internally within my own alliance. I digress it's not like "Karmic" and "Hegemony" related nations never done tech deals with each other before this. 6. Cancel? NPO can say what they want, but after this, I doubt about enforcing it, even if they're going to cancel it, probably on the account for necessity rather than forced. 7. Eh what? No, sovereignity and independence requires you too stand up for yourself. 8. Whu? Something to replace tC? With less harsher terms? Wut are you on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rahl Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 People still believe this? Some of the stupid ones do. Yes I believe that spying is always a valid CB. Notice I did not say that NPO was not guilty of the same thing. NPO had a valid CB, but so did OV. If you think spying is not a vaid CB, then that is your opinion, that does not make me stupid. Please refrain from such childish comments please. No it doesn't. I think you are confusing the Moldavi doctrine with the Revenge Doctrine. Moldavi Doctrine is just for alliances not being allowed on red, not the Red Protection Court. I was indeed confusing the two, apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 9. Acknowledge defeat in the Great War. Just to end the tiresome debate once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcalkin Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I am a firm believer in asking for no reps (as I believe the Umbrella government is, as well). However, it is my sincere belief that those who are carrying the bags should get to make those choices themselves (though I hope others support us in this endeavor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscher Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 no terms for at least a couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yes I believe that spying is always a valid CB. Notice I did not say that NPO was not guilty of the same thing. NPO had a valid CB, but so did OV. By the definition of spying the NPO used to declare war on OV, reading TWiP is spying. The post I quote here is actually a worse case of "spying". If you think spying is not a vaid CB, then that is your opinion, that does not make me stupid. Not all opinions are equal. Some are uninformed, some poorly constructed or poorly derived. And some are the tragic children of a below average intellect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Peace isn't fun. War is. Let the war continue. RAWR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rahl Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 By the definition of spying the NPO used to declare war on OV, reading TWiP is spying. No. The info in twip is provided by spies that are unaffiliated, in a public location. There is no way to stop that at all. It is not at all the same as one alliance engaging in such actions. A spy didn't go to the OV forums and simply post information for everyone to see, which is what twip is. If they had done that, then no actualy spying would be involved (save for the spy that posts the info). All OV had to do was reject the info. That's it. Not all opinions are equal. Some are uninformed, some poorly constructed or poorly derived. And some are the tragic children of a below average intellect. So, I'm of below average intellect because I think spying is a valid CB, and you do not. I don't understand why you have to resort to personal attacks, simply because I disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Murometz Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 NPO's CB was "my spies said you spied". Just wanted to clarify that, because some people are not getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Yes I believe that spying is always a valid CB. Notice I did not say that NPO was not guilty of the same thing. NPO had a valid CB, but so did OV. If you think spying is not a vaid CB, then that is your opinion, that does not make me stupid. Please refrain from such childish comments please. Not when you obtain evidence of "spying" through the exact same method. At that point you can't call anyone on anything. As to this...some of it make sense, most is just insane. Reps to Karma alliances they're fighting makes a some sense, though all of Karma is insane. Reps to Hegemony is...I don't even know but it makes no sense. Apology to OV, ok sure. No more Moldavi Doctrine, why not. Why aid red alliances? That makes no sense. Disbandment of Continuum and creation of new bloc? What? Forced tech deals are really dumb, especially after reparations. Edited May 5, 2009 by Orkules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Who ever said I want everlasting peace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 i: lose the war first ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertFitzy Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 don't bury them before they are dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpreb Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Not when you obtain evidence of "spying" through the exact same method. At that point you can't call anyone on anything. Wouldn't it just mean that both sides are in a legal state of war despite no shots being fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Wouldn't it just mean that both sides are in a legal state of war despite no shots being fired? It means you claim to be aggrieved. Well you can, just when you're caught you look like a real jackass (see now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Yes I believe that spying is always a valid CB. Spying is certainly a valid reason for concern and action, potentially up to and including war. However what was presented was not evidence of spying. At least not in that sense. It was evidence of Blackstone spying. But only that OV received information. And receiving information is not the same thing as spying. Had the NPO gone to OV as a way to get at Blackstone, and pulled this out and said 'we know you had contact, here's how, now you need to help us get them' that would have been pretty reasonable. Demanding removal/expulsion/zi of the guy who was shown only to have recieved information, not to have done any spying himself, was on the other hand not appropriate, and rather makes the whole thing sound more like a farce or a shakedown than a real negotiation however. It came out, IIRC, that the information used against OV was in fact obtained from Blackstone themselves, who had already disbanded by the time OV is attacked, and who quite curiously passed on this nugget to their sworn enemies as a farewell present! In effect we have the spies themselves, the actual culprits against whome the CB would be valid, simply walking away apparently scot free, and at the same time someone known only to have received information was being threatened with a beatdown war for his whole alliance! Come on, surely you can smell this one. This, combined with the testimony from NPO allies they werent even informed anything was going to happen, just paints a picture of the height of hubris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Spying is certainly a valid reason for concern and action, potentially up to and including war. the actual culprits against whome the CB would be valid, simply walking away apparently scot free, and at the same time someone known only to have received information was being threatened with a beatdown war for his whole alliance! nine times out of ten information about an alliance is obtained from "whistleblowers" (legit members) and not from "spies" which is commonly used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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