Jump to content

Observations.


Francesca

Recommended Posts

Like Tyga indicated, the differences are smaller than people thought they were. Karma had a vested interest in speaking louder about 'morals' before the war, almost everyone shouted morals, suddenly with war, thats gone and people are into " 'We'd do the same old' but you cant call us 'same old' ok." You'll find examples in this very thread.

Sure, that explains the white peace given to TORN, Invicta, TFD, GRAN, VA etc. + the very lenient individual terms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Well I wasn't informed or ordered to give that said terms. Until I see a thread stating "Official" terms

of surrender from our side, their are none.

http://yfrog.com/ensurrendertermsj

What about that? For those of you who can't be bothered looking at the screenshot:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: Francesca From: bryn1030 Date: 4/27/2009 8:49:51 PM

Subject: Hey Fran

Message: Here are the individual surrender terms for the nations we are at war at and anyone associated with the Karma Coalition.

QUOTE

1. Decommission all military (tanks, aircraft, CM's, navy) Allowed to carry a maximum of 5 nukes.

2. No more than 30% soldiers.

3. Remain out of peacemode.

4. Publicly resign here(owf surrender thread) and change AA to 'Hegemony PoW'

Link for surrender can be found here - http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=213

5. You are not to support any of karma either militarily or financially through the remainder of the war or to work against the hegemony in any way.

I know what the answer is but it doesn't hurt to try :P

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, you were saying?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob, that is a complete lie, a complete and total lie :P. Karma has been well under way for months, planning is referred to by your side in what I thought were relatively smug posts and I think to deny it is folly. It does not sit well with me that this planning, (yes yes we all have the logs of the meetings way back when), was going on while people were still holding hands and promising to be best buddies forever.

Only Gramlins had the guts at the time this really all started to back themselves, hold to their principles and do the right thing when faced with the reality of the situation ie leave tC. Karma started back then, the meetings were conducted and most of the people I see on Karma's side were present and accounted for at that time. There has been little surprise to me as to who rolled where (except for that rascally NpO who I still don't know what they are up to, so stop asking me in 999 queries a day) so I find it hard to swallow that ''under a month'' is true... maybe under a month to name it was what you meant?

Whether this was planned for a month or a year is irrelevant, everyone knew once Polaris was smacked down that the eyes of the world would turn onto the next likely candidate and it is no shock that the NPO had upset enough people to qualify.

Bob, I like you guys, I really do but be straight with the great unwashed, this was a well planned offensive just waiting for the opportunity with the appropriate degree of moral outrage to get started. It was only a matter of time before the trip wire was passed.

You're brutally wrong. This hasn't been a plan for the time frame you have indicated and if you have logs, I urge you to send them this way. Some believe there was an early faction of Karma, which didn't include Grämlins, even so, you could consider any 'collective gathering who didn't like the NPO' "karma", and this all wouldn't have happened if NPO didn't initiate some of its actions the way it did.

Your side contradicts itself cause we have one person saying "Only Grämlins had the guts at the time this really all started to back themselves"..then we have another side stating "There was a faction, but it didn't include Grämlins at the time".

Grämlins are not an aggressive alliance, trying to claim so is like trying to state Gary Coleman is nearly the size of Bill Clinton, which really isn't an argument mate. Trying to start a coalition against an alliance 'from back in the day' would GIVE them a reason to attack us, why would we give an alliance a REASON to attack us? We wouldn't. We aren't idiots - to go planning an offensive strike against an alliance, furthermore, our brothers are allies with them and we tell our brothers nearly everything, it is why we are brothers (TOP).

Sorry, but this assertion was more than inaccurate. Have logs, provide them mate, really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

re: Ejayrazz/AlmightyGrub - the truth is somewhere in between. There has been a gradual movement toward this current effort and quiet discussions for months. Nothing 'official' or 'on the record'. Many of you will recall that I revealed the proposed formation of a bloc called 'Bastion' back in February. The alliances I mentioned now form much of the core of the current effort: FARK, Sparta, MHA, FOK, RIA, GOD, RnR, Umbrella (as well as TOP and Grämlins, who were initially included according to my reports but backed out).

Was that planning for this war? No, probably not. It was, however, a crucial moment. It was a sign that the foundations of the hegemony were cracking. Those leaders that took part in that bloc talk knew exactly what they were doing - they were making a split from Pacifican domination. Once they saw the numbers of people who actually wanted it to happen it was just a matter of time before it did. It was inevitable that once this alignment of thought took place that an alignment of action would come soon enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

re: Ejayrazz/AlmightyGrub - the truth is somewhere in between. There has been a gradual movement toward this current effort and quiet discussions for months. Nothing 'official' or 'on the record'. Many of you will recall that I revealed the proposed formation of a bloc called 'Bastion' back in February. The alliances I mentioned now form much of the core of the current effort: FARK, Sparta, MHA, FOK, RIA, GOD, RnR, Umbrella (as well as TOP and Grämlins, who were initially included according to my reports but backed out).

Was that planning for this war? No, probably not. It was, however, a crucial moment. It was a sign that the foundations of the hegemony were cracking. Those leaders that took part in that bloc talk knew exactly what they were doing - they were making a split from Pacifican domination. Once they saw the numbers of people who actually wanted it to happen it was just a matter of time before it did. It was inevitable that once this alignment of thought took place that an alignment of action would come soon enough.

You have some interesting and notable points, such as nothing being official or on the record, I think every alliance on Karma's side can attest to talks about frustration with some actions and behavior created and/or used by several alliances, but nothing to the point where anything was constructed, notably a bloc or a vendetta-like cause (this is about Gremlins specifically, not the movement itself - that is largely debated within Bastion itself which many would seem to argue). Grämlins were offered a spot within but ultimately decided against it, if the urge to 'take down the hegemony' as AlmightyGrub suggests in fact existed, perhaps we would have joined, but we didn't due to our own mitigating circumstances and internal opinions.

You do bring valid points up, indeed. I feel this "Grämlin mastermind" thing is a little over dramatic and, well, inaccurate. As much as I would love to boost our ego (haha), we can't take credit for this - especially when I was leader, merely because trying to build an opposition merely because of distaste (The League as an example) fails merely because building something merely for the destruction of something else usually never succeeds (such as blocs, not movements such as Karma, Vox, etc). By building opposition as Grub suggests, well..it would GIVE the NPO and lovers a REASON to attack us, by which I personally consider a diplomatic fallacy and would HURT us, if you can see where I am coming from. Plus, we're too lazy for all that !@#$.

Haha. ^_^

Edited by Ejayrazz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have some interesting and notable points, such as nothing being official or on the record, I think every alliance on Karma's side can attest to talks about frustration with some actions and behavior created and/or used by several alliances, but nothing to the point where anything was constructed, notably a bloc or a vendetta-like cause (this is about Gremlins specifically, not the movement itself - that is largely debated within Bastion itself which many would seem to argue). Grämlins were offered a spot within but ultimately decided against it, if the urge to 'take down the hegemony' as AlmightyGrub suggests in fact existed, perhaps we would have joined, but we didn't due to our own mitigating circumstances and internal opinions.

You do bring valid points up, indeed. I feel this "Grämlin mastermind" thing is a little over dramatic and, well, inaccurate. As much as I would love to boost our ego (haha), we can't take credit for this - especially when I was leader, merely because trying to build an opposition merely because of distaste (The League as an example) fails merely because building something merely for the destruction of something else usually never succeeds (such as blocs, not movements such as Karma, Vox, etc). By building opposition as Grub suggests, well..it would GIVE the NPO and lovers a REASON to attack us, by which I personally consider a diplomatic fallacy and would HURT us, if you can see where I am coming from. Plus, we're too lazy for all that !@#$.

Haha. ^_^

Grub never said anything of the sort.

He only referred to the Gramlins once, and that was leaving tC.

That is when the movement began, when people saw someone could just up and walk away.

The backroom logs of people creating a bloc was very telling, and for such talks to take place, they had to of been formulated some time beforehand.

Edited by caligula
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only Gramlins had the guts at the time this really all started to back themselves, hold to their principles and do the right thing when faced with the reality of the situation ie leave tC.

This could be interpreted either way. "This really all started to back themselves", which I held as the foundation because I have heard this before, haha. I see both interprets logical really, I just wished to clarify in general rather than specifically point it towards Grub.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for bossing around, its good you guys try and attempt to fix your own problems from now onwards instead of dragging us into your mess. Seriously I'll be happy when ODN actually does that, don't goto Karma bosses next time when likes of VE and yourself cant fix problems amongst themselves and bring around the blood brother..suddenly the blood brother turns into a boss comes a great war. o\ Optional Defense Network.

Good Luck anyway and I genuinely wish OrangeDN good luck and I hope they do stand up and take a better place in the world in times ahead.

Was it us or VE who called IRON into that VE/OV/INT issue? seems i hear different things from different people. And while i can respect the tone of your post its rather puzzling to see you make the Optional Defense Network reference followed by the whole spiel of best of luck, etc, etc..i mean you spitting at us or hugging us? you got me confused :lol:

And let me say this one more time because you IRON people need to be told over and over again :rolleyes: we have taken a stand and therefore a decision was discussed and a choice made, partly because we believe in Karma and the better place it aspires to build unlike 1V and its stinking legacy...can you really defend 1V at this point in time? can you as an IRON member defend the many actions IRON has undertaken in 1V's name?

Edited by Cataduanes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I find ironic is that people from "The Hegemony" are !@#$%*ing now that its happening to them. They didnt have a problem when they did anything, but now that hey are getting beat, its the worst thing to ever happen and we are all monsters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I find ironic is that people from "The Hegemony" are !@#$%*ing now that its happening to them. They didnt have a problem when they did anything, but now that hey are getting beat, its the worst thing to ever happen and we are all monsters.

It isn't irony in my opinion merely because they wont have to go through the things others did, but I get your point. Hopefully this starts a new foundation and concept to the game:

There NEEDS to be an opposition

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It isn't irony in my opinion merely because they wont have to go through the things others did, but I get your point. Hopefully this starts a new foundation and concept to the game:

There NEEDS to be an opposition

I guess Im saying its funny that they are !@#$%*ing about the things that we are supposedly going to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess Im saying its funny that they are !@#$%*ing about the things that we are supposedly going to do.

Of course they are. Here comes the arguement "You are like us, yet you say you have honor, morals, etc"

Yea. Cause we are the ones EZI/PZI, Viceroys, tech farming, etc.

Edited by Ejayrazz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder when people will realise that the irony card doesn't actually help their argument all.

The constant 'oh the irony' or 'ironic coming from you' type lines do nothing to disprove the other person's point and just add to unnecessary clutter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder when people will realise that the irony card doesn't actually help their argument all.

The constant 'oh the irony' or 'ironic coming from you' type lines do nothing to disprove the other person's point and just add to unnecessary clutter.

But its amusing :huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dont forget forced disbandment.

What are you guys talking about? When NPO did those things it was completely justified. You all should be grateful they let people off so lightly. I know I am. I was ZIed for ONLY ten months. All hail mighty Pacifica and her infinite mercy! God only knows what I'll have to go through once you jerks are in charge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder when people will realise that the irony card doesn't actually help their argument all.

The constant 'oh the irony' or 'ironic coming from you' type lines do nothing to disprove the other person's point and just add to unnecessary clutter.

It does if you're discussing who should be in power.

I'd rather not have people who do ironic and hypocritical things, in power. That might just be me though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does if you're discussing who should be in power.

I'd rather not have people who do ironic and hypocritical things, in power. That might just be me though.

ummm no it really doesn't.

If an orange cat calls an orange dog orange then even if it's perceived to be ironic as the orange cat calling the orange dog orange is itself orange, the dog is still orange.

I have no problem with people calling irony, but they could at least try to disprove their opponents point as well, instead of just thinking saying 'irony!' automatically nulls whatever point their opponent was making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it more ironic that people who have supported and thrived in the hegemony for years have recently changed sides and are now acting all high and mighty and self righteous about teh ebil NPO (and I'm not talking about you or VE, for the record <_< )

This. Many of the karma alliances are just as responsible for the Bob we live in today as is the NPO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ummm no it really doesn't.

If an orange cat calls an orange dog orange then even if it's perceived to be ironic as the orange cat calling the orange dog orange is itself orange, the dog is still orange.

I have no problem with people calling irony, but they could at least try to disprove their opponents point as well, instead of just thinking saying 'irony!' automatically nulls whatever point their opponent was making.

:mellow:

What you used to prove an example of irony was fact. The cat never denied it was orange, or even said there was anything negative about being orange.

This isn't capable of describing the situation AT ALL.

You are saying that the very same policies you enacted and agreed with until just before this war are now wrong. You associate a negative stigma with it.

What's more, how about you explain your argument of how Karma even RESEMBLES the Hegemony? You could argue size, but that's about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This. Many of the karma alliances are just as responsible for the Bob we live in today as is the NPO.

That's realpolitick for you. Play nice until they turn their back.

Vox of course, never played with realpolitick, and in fact, I doubt most Karma alliances did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder when people will realise that the irony card doesn't actually help their argument all.

The constant 'oh the irony' or 'ironic coming from you' type lines do nothing to disprove the other person's point and just add to unnecessary clutter.

Like the "YOU'RE JUST LIKE US, BUT ONLY WORSE" card?

Except the irony card has some validly points. -.-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...