Why I just surrendered

[Loucifer]

Sileath,

You left the NPO on moderately decent terms.

I still like you even though we may not be on the same side, but, I would ask you to not try and dictate our policy or anything else pertaining to our government from your position within another alliance.

Thank you

Loucifer

NPO Imperial Officer

[Sal Paradise]

NPO leadership treating their members with disdain is hardly news.

[Matthew Conrad]

I kept my slots full 100% of the time with $3M/50/50 tech deals that I hustled and got set up myself. Always delivered. I have provided a service that assisted Pacifica. I took care of myself, I never even asked for aid. Not even startup aid.

But, I never received 1 cent of aid from NPO. EVER. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and simply call that accusation an honest mistake on your part. Anyway, the Pacifican bank has been down for "retooling" for almost 2 months now. No aid flows at all. Everyone who reads TWiP knows this. Any aid moving right now is coming from outside NPO.

I'd have to agree with this. Tech dealing with an alliance is much more beneficial for the alliance than the dealer in the bigger picture of things. It's not like he couldn't have tech dealed with another tech hungry alliance like the Gremlins, assuming he is being truthful about paying on time.

[Jocko Homo]

So you wanted to leave, that is fine. But, you could have done it with dignity and respect for the rest of us who still care to be here. Instead you decide to come to this arena and attempt to degrade us with cheap shots and blatantly out of context quotes from unrelated topics.

Actually, you are wrong. It is most definitely NOT fine that I wanted to leave. In fact NPO's policy is to ZI those who wanted to leave. Unless you are Dilber or some other special member. They can apparently come and go as they please. Me? I'm just a serf. I'm going to be shot.

I would like to remind you of the one quote you seem to have forgotten...

Yes, just a few days ago, and after this conflict started I was a loyal pacifican. What has changed since that time? Well mainly my realization that I was going to be forced to fight at the tip of a gun. I will GIVE my honor and loyalty freely but you can NEVER forcibly take it from me. Thank you for your post of my earlier words. It shows that I am not leaving because I am afraid of war. I am leaving because I will not fight for those who do not respect me. You don't threaten your comrades.

Lastly, did you bother to talk to any of the officers about your concerns? Did you even try to understand what we are doing? Unfortunately it seems you did not, as none of the officers remember you asking them about anything.

I definitely did NOT talk to any IO's about this issue beforehand. I have witnessed what talking to an IO will do to your life within NPO. (shorten it). They are for the most part power hungry, egotistical bullies. Not the approachable, touchy feely kind I prefer.

I am trying very hard to be polite here, your actions have upset me quite a bit, and I don't usually get upset about things very easily.

I appreciate it.

Loucifer, Let me give you some advice. You are totally free to ignore it but I will do it anyway. Create a new user account on your forum with a normal member level mask. Pick any name other than your own and go spend some time in your alliance as a normal grunt. Look around and take stock. Watch your IO's interact with the members. Read some of the threads where they have "helped" people with issues. Look around closely and notice whats missing. Notice who is missing. Give it a week. All will be clear by then.

You also need to ask yourself one question. How come so many people on Bob "used to be" members of NPO? I am serious.

[Sileath]

Sileath,

You left the NPO on moderately decent terms.

I still like you even though we may not be on the same side, but, I would ask you to not try and dictate our policy or anything else pertaining to our government from your position within another alliance.

Thank you

Loucifer

NPO Imperial Officer

Out of respect for you and for Internal Affairs in general, (edit: even though you sold out to be a Military IO )) I shall comply with your request.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Sileath

[Loucifer]

In no means is this meant to try and dissuade you from your opinions, but, I will try to answer your concerns as much as Operational Security will allow me to.

Actually, you are wrong. It is most definitely NOT fine that I wanted to leave. In fact NPO's policy is to ZI those who wanted to leave. Unless you are Dilber or some other special member. They can apparently come and go as they please. Me? I'm just a serf. I'm going to be shot.

If you had left before we were in a state of open warfare, your leaving would have been met with "sorry to see you go" or other neutral comments. Unfortunately, you decided to leave during a full scale war, and then come here and make claims that really should have been left between you and us. You have been around long enough to know our policy for those who leave in the middle of a war.

Yes, just a few days ago, and after this conflict started I was a loyal pacifican. What has changed since that time? Well mainly my realization that I was going to be forced to fight at the tip of a gun. I will GIVE my honor and loyalty freely but you can NEVER forcibly take it from me. Thank you for your post of my earlier words. It shows that I am not leaving because I am afraid of war. I am leaving because I will not fight for those who do not respect me. You don't threaten your comrades.

Unfortunately, most alliances are military based alliances, joining them means you will need to fight for them at some point. You stated on your application that you would do so. Now, in that respect, we expected you to fight when we either declare war or are declared upon, which, this time we got both options, how lucky is that? Always good to have options

I definitely did NOT talk to any IO's about this issue beforehand. I have witnessed what talking to an IO will do to your life within NPO. (shorten it). They are for the most part power hungry, egotistical bullies. Not the approachable, touchy feely kind I prefer.

If you are referring to making a forum post and calling an IO out, most certainly it garners you some disrespect and a lot of members take umbrage at that. If you had approached one of us privately, we are not hard to talk to, In fact, I answer anyone who contacts me, be it on IRC, or PM you will get a response. Ask anyone who has dealt with me if you dont take my word for it.

I appreciate it.

Loucifer, Let me give you some advice. You are totally free to ignore it but I will do it anyway. Create a new user account on your forum with a normal member level mask. Pick any name other than your own and go spend some time in your alliance as a normal grunt. Look around and take stock. Watch your IO's interact with the members. Read some of the threads where they have "helped" people with issues. Look around closely and notice whats missing. Notice who is missing. Give it a week. All will be clear by then.

I don't need to do that, as a bit over 2 years ago, I was in your spot, well not exactly, but a new member as you were. I lurked around the forums for a while and then found something to do within the alliance that interested me, at the time the department was led by Doitzel (who is now Vox), I will always have some respect for him as he gave me that chance to participate. (OOC: Don't get all mushy Doitzel, I still despise your character ). All it takes is a little initiative and you can gain a position within the alliance, its not all that difficult if you truly wish to work with those you have decided to join.

You also need to ask yourself one question. How come so many people on Bob "used to be" members of NPO? I am serious.

That is one I cannot answer, for I have never felt the need or desire to switch alliances, or been disillusioned enough to want to try and ruin my chosen alliance. So this is one mindset I cannot see. If i had to guess, I would say boredom, wanting a new challenge, expecting something from the NPO that wasn't there, or not accepting that alliances sometimes can and must change over time.

OOC: I hope when you choose your next alliance, you consider my words, and take an active role within your new alliance, it will not only make this game more fun, but it will also allow you to see that sometimes things have to be done for the sake of the alliance, and that the officers are not some lofty position to rule the members like serfs, they are players like you doing the best they can for those who have put their trust in them.

Thank you for your time.

Loucifer

NPO Imperial Officer

[Sileath]

Not implying that he would want to join, but just in case, membership in NSO is closed to Jocko Homo due to his actions and conduct in this thread.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Sileath

[Matthew Conrad]

If he wan't forum active i don't see where he would have learned that war was coming. Or at least a hard war.

Good sir, I'd appreciate you not embarrassing me by pointing out a key post I seemed to have missed whilst browsing this thread.

Good day

[Deidara]

Gotta love threads like this.

[Freelancer]

Ok, we attacked Ordo Verde a week ago, and he saw no problem with that until someone attacked him.

That curb stomp mentality does have it's drawback doesn't it, I think stumpy said it best with the title of his last trash cat, "The Meat Shields become Aware" waking up to reality must just suck for your current rank and file.

I do adore how your entire upper echelon is in peace mode, I know its a tactic, however do they plan on staying there as long as FAN did ?

Oh, and this is great. Much enjoyment. I love train wrecks. Please carry on.

I couldn't agree more

[kingzog]

One of the reasons I left the NPO was the way the leadership treated members who responded to situations with anything other than "o/ Moo" and "Pacifica Prevails!"

Jocko Homo -- fantastic name and avatar, btw [OOC: I've been a huge Devo fan for about 30 years] -- I believe you will find a new home quite easily. And, if the NPO wants to come after you when this war is over, they will ignite another conflagration.

The days when the NPO could impose its will on the rest of CN are over. You have nothing to fear from your former "leaders" as they sit cowering in their bunkers. All they have left is chest-thumping, empty threats and vague references to the far-off future, for their 'present' and immediate future look grim indeed.

[Detlev]

These guys have to understand that you cant force respect with the business end of a gun, you have to earn it. And that is where they failed.

Actually, NPO has forced respect with the business end of a gun for three years, nearly since the beginning of CN.

[Comrade Smith]

Good luck with your post-NPO cyber existence, Jocko. Good to see one of the rank and file acknowledging how messed up things are rather than blindly repeating the party line.

[bkphysics]

I'm curious as to how the Body Republic of Pacifica feels about Dilber and Triyun leaving during open warfare. I mean if this guy is considered a traitor, they must be considered super-mega-ultra traitors, right?

Corinan, you know that if you are part of the 'club' you can do what you want

If you want to see where the diplomatic failure is, your best bet is to look higher on the totem pole than where you're looking now.

Please do elaborate because based off of what I have seen, the entire NPO FA has failed. From horrible damage control after each TWiP article to outright ignoring public opinion of questionable tactics via their extreme arrogance. If you feel someone is the blame then come forth and don't be coy.

If an entire alliances ongoing destruction is rooted by the ineptitude of one or a few individuals, would it not be best to put their feet to the nuclear fire and not damn the rest? As an ally, at this point, your best action would be to help clear out the bad apples.

[Bad JuJu]

I cant wait for TWiP to cover this.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Bad JuJu

[Speer]

I definitely did NOT talk to any IO's about this issue beforehand. I have witnessed what talking to an IO will do to your life within NPO. (shorten it). They are for the most part power hungry, egotistical bullies. Not the approachable, touchy feely kind I prefer.

Then you clearly haven't. I've spoken to pretty much all of them, including Moo, and they most certainly do NOT act power hungry or egotistical. They listen, then they act. If you need something, they'll do it (within reason). If you need advice, they'll give it.

Please stop spreading such lies like that. Since most of the discussions between member and government are conducted privately, then admitting you have not even spoken with any of them, you really aren't in a position to tell the rest of the world how they act in a private arena.

[Jocko Homo]

That is one I cannot answer, for I have never felt the need or desire to switch alliances, or been disillusioned enough to want to try and ruin my chosen alliance. So this is one mindset I cannot see. If i had to guess, I would say boredom, wanting a new challenge, expecting something from the NPO that wasn't there, or not accepting that alliances sometimes can and must change over time.

I thought I was pretty clear on why I left, but apparently not.

Read slowly: I am a very loyal person and I will charge the gates of hell with my comrades but I'll be damed if I will so much as walk through an open door at the point of a gun.

I now understand that for the NPO to function and the IO's and other leadership to stay in power you feel you must bully everyone but sorry mate, Homo dont play dat.

[lcdt94]

I never asked for aid nor did I accept any.

You sure did a lot of tech deals with Pacificans (and a bunch of free aid), along with protecting yourself under our AA.

It's funny how you could even possibly think him doing tech deals benefits himself more than it does NPO. Do yourself a favor and just stop posting here.

[Krashnaia]

(...)

Ok, I know I shouldn't be really writing this, being as I'm the leader of a nation fighting for the Karma bloc, but...

So, Jocko Homo, you where a redteam nation, and joined NPO, as it was a big, powerfull red-team alliance. You didn't like what you saw there, so you decided to leave.

That's Ok, but you stayed there for 5 whole months.

Ok, so you really didn't realized where you stood, until war times come. That's reasonable, most people don't realize things until hard times come over. Or you didn't left NPO before for fear of reprisals, so waited until the NPO was messed and broken up by a war, and left when they no longer had the power to take reprisals on you. That's even more reasonable.

So you desert your side and sign up into a POW camp. I fully approve, and I encourage every single nation fighting for the Hegemony to follow your lead. Well done, guy!!

But...

But then you come over to the Public sphere, to spread crap about your former alliance mates, and to encourage their enemies to totally wipe them.

Dude, you are lobbing for the Vlassov-Von Paulus Award, or what?

I mean, you totally took benefit from the protection of being into Planet Bob's Hegemonic Power for, like, 5 whole months. That's enough a reason to just shut up and spend your time growing potatoes in the POW camp, like everyone else.

Rome didn't reward Treason. I don't expect Karma to do otherwise.

And be afraid not, if the Karma guys have a barely minimal understandig about what they are doing (and I'm pretty sure they have), when they bow the Hegemony to Surrender Terms, there will be a big, pretty clausule about "thou shalt not take reprisals against any Karma POW".

...

Well, forget what I have just written. Hang on, keep spreading good propaganda for Karma. We are proud of you. I totally encourage your actions. Yeah.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Krashnaia

[Hymenbreach]

Any one who surrenders during war time is not clean enough to be spat upon.

[lcdt94]

Any one who surrenders during war time is not clean enough to be spat upon.

I am sorry you have been so utterly brainwashed by your alliance.

[muffasamini]

I joined NPO because I was on red and they were the red alliance.

Why did you even join NPO if you aren't willing to stand up for it? Any unaligned red team nation can form trades and even conduct tech deals with us, so if you weren't willing to defend your haven, why did you even join? Who could have just stayed on the red team, participated in our limited affairs and been in peace. You knew what you signed up for.

[Lycurgus Rex]

Yup, hows it go again?, the actions of the leaders speak for the membership? That sound right? Well here we have a member speak of leadership's actions..

[kingzog]

Then you clearly haven't. I've spoken to pretty much all of them, including Moo, and they most certainly do NOT act power hungry or egotistical. They listen, then they act. If you need something, they'll do it (within reason). If you need advice, they'll give it.

Please stop spreading such lies like that. Since most of the discussions between member and government are conducted privately, then admitting you have not even spoken with any of them, you really aren't in a position to tell the rest of the world how they act in a private arena.

Well, during my time in the NPO I spoke with nearly all of their leadership at one time or another and found that with notable exceptions (Moo and Dilber come to mind) they are a bunch of swaggering bullies and blowhards. Some of the mid-level leadership are even worse.

[shakes]

Everyone alliance should target deserters. You can't benefit from protection when the sun shining then run away screaming like a little child when it rains. It's just utterly pathetic and unbecoming to any man (or woman) to desert.