Newhotness Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) I thought you said that you were a rogue? RAD's clear lack of a Declaration of War on the Initiative and your declaration of independent action would hardly constitute as a cassus belli against the entirety of your alliance. Unless, of course, your attack was an attempt to bait the Initiative into a Declaration of War which would then allow RAD to claim to be on the defensive and activate their multitude of treaties? No no no. It wasnt bait. I told you on IRC i was helping out a friend. I never once said i was rogue tho. Those were JMs words. not mine. I am still a full member of RAD. If i wanted to bait TSI into attacking RAD and activating treaties i would have attacked 2 TSI nations with my remaining 2 attacking slots, not just one. Or i would have just flamed until you came and attacked us. There was no DoW because we didnt declare war. But, you can look at it however you want. Edited April 28, 2009 by Newhotness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakura Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Nice to see leniency for an alliance that was so ill-prepared for war. I see that honour is not all dead. To White Tree, good luck in the future, wherever that may lead. To TSI, were it not for our treaty obligations, I doubt I would call you 'enemy', and even so, I would call you friend (That doesn't mean I'm going to go easy on you, it would dishonour you if I didn't fight to the best of my abilities). Perhaps after this war is over, TSI and IS may stand together as allies one day. My dealings with TSI have been as pleasant as can be, given our current state of war. (Please excuse Nick's and Torture's trolling on IRC, its in their nature.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 No no no. It wasnt bait. I told you on IRC i was helping out a friend. I never once said i was rogue tho. Those were JMs words. not mine. I am still a full member of RAD. If i wanted to bait TSI into attacking RAD and activating treaties i would have attacked 2 TSI nations with my remaining 2 attacking slots, not just one. Or i would have just flamed until you came and attacked us. There was no DoW because we didnt declare war. But, you can look at it however you want. So how exactly should your action be perceived? Without a Declaration of War, there is no official conflict. And yet, here you are, claiming that despite statements from other members of your alliance that your attack is sanctioned. How precisely should we view your attack as anything else than an attempt to draw the Initiative into a war with RAD which would allow a dogpile by other alliances to commence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subotai Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Generous and honorable. o/TSI o/TP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 The Sasori Initiative is a crown jewel within cybernations, they continue to impress me each and every day with their wisdom, courage, honor, but above all, respectfulness. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurukian Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Nice to see leniency for an alliance that was so ill-prepared for war. I see that honour is not all dead. To White Tree, good luck in the future, wherever that may lead. To TSI, were it not for our treaty obligations, I doubt I would call you 'enemy', and even so, I would call you friend (That doesn't mean I'm going to go easy on you, it would dishonour you if I didn't fight to the best of my abilities). Perhaps after this war is over, TSI and IS may stand together as allies one day. My dealings with TSI have been as pleasant as can be, given our current state of war. (Please excuse Nick's and Torture's trolling on IRC, its in their nature.) Sakura, I've had some very pleasant talks with IS through my dealings with the members and Goverment. I would definitely enjoy fostering our communications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckz3 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Very Honorable TSI and TP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 So how exactly should your action be perceived? Without a Declaration of War, there is no official conflict. And yet, here you are, claiming that despite statements from other members of your alliance that your attack is sanctioned. How precisely should we view your attack as anything else than an attempt to draw the Initiative into a war with RAD which would allow a dogpile by other alliances to commence? Ok, ill go over it again. A buddy came to me and said "hey, could u help me out real quick?" and i said, "hm, well, i am free so sure. I wont get RAD to jump them all since we havent declared war but i can help you out real quick." Perceive it however you want. If you want to think i tried to draw you guys in by attacking that nation then go ahead. I can honestly tell you that wasnt my intention. But it seems as though you dont want to accept it. So why do you want so badly for me to have been trying to pull you guys in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Ok, ill go over it again. A buddy came to me and said "hey, could u help me out real quick?" and i said, "hm, well, i am free so sure. I wont get RAD to jump them all since we havent declared war but i can help you out real quick." Perceive it however you want. If you want to think i tried to draw you guys in by attacking that nation then go ahead. I can honestly tell you that wasnt my intention. But it seems as though you dont want to accept it. So why do you want so badly for me to have been trying to pull you guys in? I think I'm misunderstanding your original comment about fighting you and reading it as some sort of enticement to engage in hostilities against RAD. If your war was launched on your own without consultation with your government's approval then it will continue to be viewed as a rogue action and RAD will not be held responsible as per the statements from their government. If RAD would like to make an official statement to the contrary and post an official Declaration of War then that's just as well by me. Back to the original purpose of the thread, it was a pleasure to get this situation resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 White Tree is a protectorate alliance of Poison Clan. On April 22nd one of their nations engaged in an attack on The Phoenix Federation (as noted in the Initiative's Declaration of War). All communications attempts to that point had failed, leading to the necessary conclusion that the attack was sanctioned. Further communication attempts during the war with individual nations were non-productive and progress was only made when JohnnyApocalypse and Citizenkane volunteered to assist in establishing communications due to personally knowing members of White Tree.I hope that answers this question. Good of JohnnyApocalypse and CitizenKane to help them out. Very good of the combatants to let them go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Due to the fact that White Tree is so politically removed from Bob, we have decided to grant them full White Peace with no terms other than the condition that they stay peaceful for the remainder of the war, and do not aid warring alliances. This is not a surrender, but a cessation of hostilities after analyzing the situation in light of this new information. Can you clarify something for me? I see no solid indication as to where White Tree agreed to this. Did White Tree agree to stop attacking you or are you just trying to make a unilateral ceasefire look like you defeated them? Not trolling, just asking politely as this announcement sounds a bit strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason8 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think I'm misunderstanding your original comment about fighting you and reading it as some sort of enticement to engage in hostilities against RAD. If your war was launched on your own without consultation with your government's approval then it will continue to be viewed as a rogue action and RAD will not be held responsible as per the statements from their government. If RAD would like to make an official statement to the contrary and post an official Declaration of War then that's just as well by me.Back to the original purpose of the thread, it was a pleasure to get this situation resolved. Y'see, bro, Newhotness here is a bit of a freelancer. He's our Director of War, so he can give himself clearance to war on someone. And he totally saw a friend that needed a bit of help, so he decided to help. RAD is not going to war with the TSI. Treat Newhotness as if he's a member of IS. It should simplify the situation a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Y'see, bro, Newhotness here is a bit of a freelancer. He's our Director of War, so he can give himself clearance to war on someone. And he totally saw a friend that needed a bit of help, so he decided to help. RAD is not going to war with the TSI. Treat Newhotness as if he's a member of IS. It should simplify the situation a bit. Works for me - I'm sure we'll get around to him once NADC clears out of his defensive slots B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Works for me - I'm sure we'll get around to him once NADC clears out of his defensive slots B) SWEET! This war gets more fun by the minute :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 As someone that has been in the same position as white tree before (and was delt far far far harsher terms for it), I have to comment SI and Terra Prime on their excellent decision and understanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Can you clarify something for me? I see no solid indication as to where White Tree agreed to this.Did White Tree agree to stop attacking you or are you just trying to make a unilateral ceasefire look like you defeated them? Not trolling, just asking politely as this announcement sounds a bit strange. I spoke directly with Gearnet of White Tree and he communicated with the rest of his alliance - unfortunately even he acknowledged that he couldn't negotiate on behalf of the entire alliance. As for any attempt to look like we defeated them, the OP clearly states that this is not a surrender on the part of White Tree - we are not claiming some sort of military victory here, simply acknowledging a parting of ways and the fine performance of White Tree on the battlefield. They deserve recognition for their part of the conflict as much as any other alliance and should be afforded the respect of the community as a whole for making do under very tough circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason8 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Works for me - I'm sure we'll get around to him once NADC clears out of his defensive slots B) I figured it would be. Kick his $@! for me, will ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurukian Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Edit: Toku got it first. Edited April 28, 2009 by Shurukian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I figured it would be. Kick his $@! for me, will ya? I'll hit you up if I need a friend to give me a hand! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) I'll hit you up if I need a friend to give me a hand! :lol: Lol. WAIT A SECOND!!! Dammit u guys. Im not your friends anymore. Tokugawa or Jason But seriously, i got nothin againts you guys. I just like to talk !@#$ Edited April 28, 2009 by Newhotness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I spoke directly with Gearnet of White Tree and he communicated with the rest of his alliance - unfortunately even he acknowledged that he couldn't negotiate on behalf of the entire alliance. As for any attempt to look like we defeated them, the OP clearly states that this is not a surrender on the part of White Tree - we are not claiming some sort of military victory here, simply acknowledging a parting of ways and the fine performance of White Tree on the battlefield. They deserve recognition for their part of the conflict as much as any other alliance and should be afforded the respect of the community as a whole for making do under very tough circumstances. Thank you. I think this is a definite case of "private channels FTW". You could have just PMed their members saying, "We are going to stop attacking you unless you attack back." Since no agreement is in place I don't see the point of this announcement other than to boost Hegemony morale in a disingenuous way. Most people don't have the time in the maze of DoW topics to fully read what is actually be said in the OP. I doubt any White Tree members even read these forums so you aren't really communicating anything to them by posting this either. To each his own I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurukian Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Thank you. I think this is a definite case of "private channels FTW". You could have just PMed their members saying, "We are going to stop attacking you unless you attack back." Since no agreement is in place I don't see the point of this announcement other than to boost Hegemony morale in a disingenuous way. Most people don't have the time in the maze of DoW topics to fully read what is actually be said in the OP. I doubt any White Tree members even read these forums so you aren't really communicating anything to them by posting this either. To each his own I suppose. Private channels would have been used if they could have been ascertained. We did try to PM each individual member, and they basically all told us where to go. They didn't know it was sent as a message to the alliance, not just to them. So we decided to try more official communication methods. And it's an official delcaration, it's not meant to boost morale, or do anything other than inform. To inform the rest of Bob that our war with White Tree is over. I would rather do it this way than have to PM every individual government that could ever possibly be involved. It is a completely legitimate announcemet about the end of a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think this is a definite case of "private channels FTW". You could have just PMed their members saying, "We are going to stop attacking you unless you attack back." This was done - I'd happily post some of the responses to the first round of attempts but the language contained there-in would not be appropriate for this venue. Since no agreement is in place I don't see the point of this announcement other than to boost Hegemony morale in a disingenuous way. Most people don't have the time in the maze of DoW topics to fully read what is actually be said in the OP. I don't see how announcing a cessation of hostilities would be a boost for anyone's morale, especially when it is with an alliance that most people have never heard of. This thread serves as a followup to the Declaration of War made by the Initiative against White Tree to signal the closure of that section and to notify the Cyberverse of our agreement. I doubt any White Tree members even read these forums so you aren't really communicating anything to them by posting this either. In the event that any of them do browse these forums, I'm sure they would be happy to see this announcement. Showing respect doesn't have to only happen when the other person is watching, after all. I hope that this has addressed some of your concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyndicatedINC Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Glad to see actions such as this. Having been in White Tree's shoes before I really can sympathize with their predicament. Thankfully others were lenient and understanding then as well. Good show TSI and TP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathcat Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Shuru and Septer.. You do OPP proud oo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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