General RPing Guidelines II

[LeVentNoir]

UnOfficial CNRP IRC channel - #cnrp OOC ONLY

UnOfficial CNRP IRC channel - #cnrpic IC ONLY

For all practical purposes, this is considered an OOC thread. Please restrict OOC discussions relating to the topics in the OP to this thread only.

I really don't enjoy intervening in roleplay as a moderator, but it seems to be rather necessary here. Good roleplay requires a degree of respect for one another. Saying a group of people RP nazis is not a good idea; however, neither is godmode-ing and deciding what happens in another player's nation. Declaring that you have assassinated a foreign leader without his/her consent is certainly godmode, and I would argue deciding what events happen in another player's country are as well. What is not godmoding, in my opinion, would be attempting to incite rebellions in another player's country, or attempting to assassinate a leader.

That being said, when you are trying those options, to maintain a good RP, the other player needs to be accepting that not everything will go their way. It is unfair to declare that every assassination attempt, every rebellion, every attack fails. This is again where the mutual respect comes into play. You should not decide what happens in another player's nation, but at the same time, you should roleplay your nation and your leader with a degree of realism and acceptance that you are not invincible. If you find a player is doing so unfairly, and not stopping after being asked, you can always make an OOC request that your fellow leaders ignore the person in question.

These are purely my opinions and I am not about to go around handing out warns to people who disagree or don't roleplay in a way I agree with, excluding that which is prohibited in the forum rules themselves. What I am trying to do is lay a general groundwork here that people can live by. You all know the details on what's happening here better than I do, so I am open to any criticisms, suggestions, or clarifications.

OOC: TONE DOWN THE EGOS.

Christ, everyone seems to think they are incapable of error. Remember, the writing you are reading is a PERSON. Just because you can't see their face doesn't mean you need to treat them like dirt.

It is human nature to be wrong occasionally. I make mistakes, you make mistakes, the President makes mistakes. Why is it that when people are told they are wrong, they act like it's some HUGE INSULT to their character when what we should be doing is working together as a community to improve our overall ability and RP, and use each other as a check-and-balance for our mistakes we DO make.

These guidelines aren't meant to be used as a rulebook. This is mainly for newer nations to look at so that they don't do anything to piss the big guys off. This is mainly for new players to look at. The guidelines listed below are so that you know what godmodding is and how to prevent, what a "10x multiplier" is and what "OOC and IC" are. If you need to, you can reference this post for personal RPing, but when dealing with someone else you two should use this as a guide to make your own rules for the roleplay.

I know that CNRP isn't perfect, but there is way too much bickering. This isn't supposed to be "ZOMG LOOK HERE IT SAYS YOU CAN'T DO THAT" when in reality this thread is just supposed to be a way for new players to start off without screwing up and for players to settle OOC disputes.

General Rules for CyberNations Roleplaying

*The first claim made by your nation must be within your in-game sphere of influence (SoI). Any claims outside of your sphere after your first claim must be roleplayed out and accepted by the general community.

Claims should be made here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54653

*Your in-game (your actual CyberNations nation) citizen count will be multiplied by one hundred (100), and the subsequent number can be your CNRP (CyberNations Roleplaying) citizen count. As long as it isn't !@#$% insane, you can go with other numbers.

*For soldier and tank counts, multiply max soldiers x10 and take tanks as the max tanks you can have.

*Your in-game tech (technology) level is directly used in CNRP. See below for technology guidelines.

*Your in-game navy is directly used in CNRP. Meaning, whatever you have IG = whatever you have in RP.

*Your in-game air force is counted as your CNRP airforce. However, once you become a "developed" nation, one plane may count as one squadron.

*When engaging in a CNRP war, the out come should be decided before hand by the participants. In cases of rather obvious out comes, common sense can be used, but with larger nations, fortified nations and older RPers coming to an agreement before hand is a much easier and less hateful path than the OOC mud slinging which most wars devolved into.

*The amount of nukes (warheads) you have is equal to your in game level of warheads. Everyone with standard nukes has fission bombs(max 500kt) Weapons research complexes give you hydrogen bombs (keep them within reason not tens of megaton warheads), and neutron weapons. This decision was reached by consulting with the GMs and at their urging.

*Also, large Fuel air explosive bombs, chemical weapons, large EMP weapons, and biological weapons are capped at 50 and equal to the number of CMs you have in game.

*You cannot arm your citizens and have them fight a war. It does not matter if you give them full time military training and automatic weapon, the maximum number of armed people you can field in a war is determined by your soldier count.

Game Moderator "wipe" effects

*Type one, total impossibility. IE Death star. Total RP wiped. These kind of god mods are easy to spot, and will be called quickly, so little RP to go back and redo.

*Type two, feature impossibility. IE Fighter jet with a laser. These are sometimes unnoticed, and when found / called, Rp should be paused, while they are argued out in a separate thread. If the feature is found to be impossible, then the Rp continues as if all actions had occurred minus that feature. IE, you still used your fighters, but since they didn't have lasers, they got annihilated.

Communication

*Whenever you say something that is not "in character", use the 'OOC:' tag before the statement.

For example, if Uberstein decides to hold a gladiator tournament, we may insult the action in-game but then add "OOC: haha, nice" to show that we (in real life, not in game) like the idea.

*If something is to be a private message, put "PRIVATE MESSAGE TO <nation name here>" before the message. While the rest of the community will be able to see the message, only the person you send it to will be able to respond or use that information.

*Embassies exist in CNRP. An embassy is a building in a foreign country that would technically belong to you. A diplomat and his staff would be sent to live in the embassy building, and would be there in case you need to talk to the nation the embassy exists in (or vice-versa).

Treaties

*Any treaty (MDP, ODP, economic, NAP, etc.) can be made in CNRP with another nation. For instance, if you sign a Mutual Defense Pact (MDP) with Uberstein, whenever you are attacked in CNRP, Uberstein will activate the MDP and attack whoever attacked you.

*Economic treaties are treaties where you trade with another nation (be it food, technology, medicine), and both nations are to be treated as if they have the same level of whatever they're trading. This is usually called tech trading, see the tech trading rules below.

Rerolling

* This is RPing with a RP entity that is not the one you first RP'd with.

*When Rerolling, you give up the ability and right to RP anything connected with your old entity. This means that people not present in your current country are unable to be controlled while physical installations cannot be controlled unless you own the land they are on.

*If rerolling as a continuation of the same nation, this is voided.

*ANYTHING THAT DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, AERODYNAMICS OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT EXISTS IN REAL LIFE WILL BE NULL AND VOID

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TECH

Background

Before any scientific experiment or anything like that, background information must be given. In real life, people aren't at certain tech levels, like at '89 tech or '74 tech. Technology levels are divided, in RL, into three distinct terms: First World, Modern, and Third World.

In RL, First world nations are constantly developing new technologies and inventing stuff. Modern buys technology from First world nations and produces it in their own nation and are able to maintain it. Third World nations get the scraps from other nation and have to steal or get given old technology and are barely able to maintain it.

So, how does this translate into CNRP?

Previously, we had a Log Based tech system. It helped lower nations get more modern tech, starting at about level 300 tech. However, at tech year 2005, people stoped using real tech and started inventing their own. Everything below that was pretty set in stone, and nobody, save for a few nations, created anything.

So, we've simplified the tech year system and made it into something more like the tiers we have explained above. Nobody will be losing any technology, and if anything, people would be increasing in their technological capabilities.

New Tech Scale

First of all, the three tiers.

Third World Nation (0-299 tech)

Your technology level is very low, and are developing your own way in the world. You have cold war technology*, and any tech you recieve from other nations (weapons, aircraft, etc.) is not easily maintained without help. It's much like what buying tech from other nations is now IRL. You may design items appropriate to the period.

*{1980-90ish}

Modern Nation (300-1499 tech)

Your technology has reached a modern level, and you can build anything military-wise that currently exists*. You may design items appropriate to the period.

*{not in alpha testing, so laser plane and the walking robot buzzing thing is out while the F-35 is in}

First World Nation (1500+ tech)

Inventions start coming from your nation, and you can build anything your heart can imagine*. You're still limited to IG levels of soldiers, tanks, nukes, CMs, etc. Now, beyond this your tech level still matters for your army efficency, but a lot less. Design statistics will matter less as there is an efficiency formula for your armies

*{To a technological limit of the year 2020, of course, within the rules of what can and cannot exist in CNRP, so no mechs, lasers, or rods from god}

Design statistics will matter less as there is an efficiency formula for your armies, showing how relatively effective they are.

Some background to this. This is a number designed to represent a ratio of effectiveness in a trial, respective to a Modern nation. It is designed to show the relative effectiveness of weapons and systems in a certain task for head to head comparison.

It is your Technological Effectiveness, (TE).

TE = 1+ (IG Tech / 10000 * ( 1+ WRC)) Where WRC (Weapons Research Complex (wonder)) is a logical 1,0 statement of having a IG WRC. (1 = you have one, 0 = you don't)

This is taken almost straight from the game, where it works as the damage multiplier for war attacks. That way, we still maintain design coolness, and tech advantage.

EXAMPLES AND STATEMENTS.

Since Third World and Modern nations do not have extensive self research labs, they then to all be roughly the same effectiveness regardless of the actual advancement of the nation. This is because these two tiers have access to the same group of weapon etc, and are not allowed to create new products, so it makes sense that two nations with the same groups will have the same TE.

Third World nations have a TE of 0.8, and Modern have one of 1. These are deviations from the formula as they emphasize that, yeah, your troops / weapons etc, are quite a bit worse than the standard (for Third World)/ are the standard (for Modern)

IE: 1) Three nations are trying to accomplish a task. One Third World nation, one Modern, one First World (2000 tech), with TE's of 0.8, 1, 1.2 respectively. Since TE represents a measure of relative effectiveness, the Modern Nation will have to put in a 1x effort, as it is the standard. However, the Third World nation only achieves 0.8 of the effect for the same effort, so will have to put in 1.25x the effort of the Modern Nation. Whereas the First World nation achieves 1.2 of the effect for the same effort, so only has to put in 0.83x the effort of the modern nation. This "effort" could be the number of shots needed to kill something, or really anything you can imagine.

2) First World Nation A fights First World Nation B. Nation A has 3000 tech, Nation B has 2000. Hence, nation A has a TE of 1.3, nation B of 1.2. So nation A's troops etc are 1.3/1.2 = 1.08 =8% better than nation B's. This is because TE is measure relative to Modern, so to compare two TE's directly, calculate TEA/TEB to find the Technological Effectiveness of A relative to B

So, in theory, in the case of two people that are rping equally, and both people have some good tactics, and one of them is not just going, "LOL, 100,000 paratroopers on your capital!", this scale will be used, but no more will people say, "I have better tech, you lose." Well, if a First world is invading a third world, the case is different, the tech difference will matter a lot.

Technological Trade.

The old 'tech share' is being scrapped. No longer shall nations have their entire advancement lifted by a few words on a treaty. Now, you can buy weapons / items from more advanced nations. However, this comes with a cost. For Modern and Third World nations, these advanced items will cost more than what your normal domestic ones would. Since economy is gone from CNRP, we have a simple formula to determine what you could have.

It is based on TE. We assume cost is directly proportional to TE. So, when buying a Item, here is how many you can afford.

#Advanced Items =#Buyer Items IG* (Buyer TE / Seller TE)

EXAMPLE

If you can have say, 1000 tanks IG at a TE of 1 (Ie you are a Modern nation) and you buy tanks from a First World nation with a TE of 1.3, you can have 1/1.3 * 1000 tanks = ~770 tanks.

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Issues?

If there is anything not clarified in this post, ask in this thread. If we cannot agree on something standard, then we will discuss it and eventually come to a consensus.

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Edited May 29, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Madame Unicorn]

Damn good idea for making this thread, LVN. A lot of people get so confused, and this is to the point and informative. Good on you.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Well, it was originally Sargun's thread, but he needs a break. It's nice to see we'll have someone updating this again.

[Uberstein]

Woot I'm quoted.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Rerolling

* This is RPing with a RP entity that is not the one you first RP'd with.

*When Rerolling, you give up the ability and right to RP anything connected with your old entity. This includes special weapons project, groups of people/citizens/ ethnicgroups, characters etc. If you wish to bring them back, this will need to be seen on a case by case basis, and likely only characters will be able to be brought forward, although this will require RP to explain.

Well then, you broke your own rule when you brought back everything from IW when you made Glorious Aotearoa then, didn't you

Beside that, that rule is bad, if you RP it, and you aren't god-modding, you should be able to get back some of your old stuff and characters if you want to.

[LeVentNoir]

Well then, you broke your own rule when you brought back everything from IW when you made Glorious Aotearoa then, didn't you

Beside that, that rule is bad, if you RP it, and you aren't god-modding, you should be able to get back some of your old stuff and characters if you want to.

I did not bring anything except LeVentNoir back, and maybe one design. And yes, I have made a provision for bring a few things back through good RP.

Also, this rule is not going to be applied retroactively.

[Lord Frost]

Strangely this tech chart actually fits how I RP. How interesting

[Tahsir]

Strangely this tech chart actually fits how I RP. How interesting

Cuz its the old tech chart?

[LeVentNoir]

Strangely this tech chart actually fits how I RP. How interesting

It has not been changed. If you people accepted a different one, I would change it.

[Sumeragi]

CM cap is at 50, I believe.

Suggestion: Should Rods from God (10 ton-class) be allowed under CMs?

[LeVentNoir]

CM cap is at 50, I believe.

Suggestion: Should Rods from God (10 ton-class) be allowed under CMs?

No. They are totally banned. I calculated even a 500kg rod has more destructive energy than 160 tonnes of TNT, when dropped from orbit.

[Sargun II]

RfG is banned under the "no permanent space weapons" category anyway.

[JerreyRough]

It should be put down that if a war/RP that includes zombies in it, that the RP can only happen if all affected parties have agreed.

[Lynneth]

CM cap is at 50, I believe.

Wasn't the CM-cap at 50 only for WMDs, such as biological or chemical warheads, not conventional that are for destroying ships or static defenses?

[Raritan]

Wasn't the CM-cap at 50 only for WMDs, such as biological or chemical warheads, not conventional that are for destroying ships or static defenses?

Yep, because 50 CMs for a nation is pathetic. If a cruiser could launch an entire nation's CM arsenal, it would make for very strange wars.

[LeVentNoir]

Wasn't the CM-cap at 50 only for WMDs, such as biological or chemical warheads, not conventional that are for destroying ships or static defenses?

Actually levels of CMs remain uncapped. However, if it gets silly, then you can be warned they will be soft capped for you. The IG CM count is used for Bio Chem, MOAB, EMP etc type weapons.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

I did not bring anything except LeVentNoir back, and maybe one design. And yes, I have made a provision for bring a few things back through good RP.

Also, this rule is not going to be applied retroactively.

Yah, but the stuff doesn't magically disappear after a nation leaves. You can't get rid of everything, so why force people to rp completely new things every time someone annexes them.

Also, if memory serves, you treated it like almost every defense you built as IW was still there and only needed some repairs.

And, that's a great way to look unbiased, do it yourself, then once you have the power, make a rule agaisnt it to stop people from following your example.

[Manetheren]

I believe the point is that you must effectively RP the return of a nation/character. The rule is in place to prevent people from leaving and then coming back and magically expecting everything to be there.

[LeVentNoir]

Yah, but the stuff doesn't magically disappear after a nation leaves. You can't get rid of everything, so why force people to rp completely new things every time someone annexes them.

Also, if memory serves, you treated it like almost every defense you built as IW was still there and only needed some repairs.

And, that's a great way to look unbiased, do it yourself, then once you have the power, make a rule agaisnt it to stop people from following your example.

Well, then people should have to actually RP continuity, ie, if you gain some land as a new player, you have to RP in the style of the person that was there before... Or maybe, once a new player gains that land they have free reign over their RP.

Its more to the point that people often change geographic locations when Re-rolling, and options like that would not be available anyway.

And the main point of the rule, that is you relinquish control of people and designs is to prevent people coming back, then claiming all their people are the same people as their old nation / they get to control two lots of population / there is the old military force out there they control etc.

I believe the point is that you must effectively RP the return of a nation/character. The rule is in place to prevent people from leaving and then coming back and magically expecting everything to be there.

Exactly. For example, I used to RP the nation of "Iusedtorpthis", I quit and come back as "Anewnation" If I Rp'd it properly, I could lead an expidition to an abandoned military base of "Iusedtorpthis" and collect old designs, however, I, as the leader of "Anewnation" cannot command the citizens of "Iusedtorpthis" to suddenly come and join me.

Finally, this rule is not a full ban, its a ban on assumptions without RP. If the RP is done well, and sensible, then it would be allowed. For example, I would allow almost anyone to RP expeditions into the Uberstein cities as those were a: never destroyed b: static c: lacking free will to say no. However, re rolling with a nation halfway around the world and then claiming some kind of link to the old citizens of your old nation is totally out.

[Uberstein]

My cities DO have major things in the way of getting to them you, for example the entire upper floors are flooded and such.

But if someone RP'd well enough, they could get down there...don't know why you would want too though, lol.

[LeVentNoir]

My cities DO have major things in the way of getting to them you, for example the entire upper floors are flooded and such.

But if someone RP'd well enough, they could get down there...don't know why you would want too though, lol.

Well yeah, but I mean, they can't get up and walk away when you are not looking because they don't want to do what you say....

[Subtleknifewielder]

My cities DO have major things in the way of getting to them you, for example the entire upper floors are flooded and such.

But if someone RP'd well enough, they could get down there...don't know why you would want too though, lol.

They might think there are a few secrets to retrieve that are worth the lives that would be spent to get down there.

[Uberstein]

Well yeah, but I mean, they can't get up and walk away when you are not looking because they don't want to do what you say....

For some reason I don't understand your post, can you clarify?

They might think there are a few secrets to retrieve that are worth the lives that would be spent to get down there.

Well, if they want to know how to make absurdly expensive Stirling engines the size of houses, sure.

EDIT: I just realized, Marten's land in CN isn't over his CNRP claims. Isn't that bad?

Edited April 28, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Subtleknifewielder]

Well, if they want to know how to make absurdly expensive Stirling engines the size of houses, sure.

They might want to know how you BUILT the bunkers themselves...

EDIT: I just realized, Marten's land in CN isn't over his CNRP claims. Isn't that bad?

Considering that's where he started this present nation...I'd have to give a yes. Other people have land where their SoI doesn't cover, but they legitimately RP'd those acquisitions. They didn't start there.

[LeVentNoir]

For some reason I don't understand your post, can you clarify?

Bringing things forward through a re roll is basically a question: Would they, in RL be able to be obtained by the new govt? Static defenses, yes, provided, they were never destroyed / decommissioned, you own the land they were on, and you have good RP to how they would be operated(you have a character who knows etc) Characters, yes, if they were in a position were they could realistically come forward. If they were in jail, no, if they had infiltrated the new govt under a disguise, sure, if done properly. Citizens / ethnic groups. No in most cases. You don't see the new govt of somali calling Somalians home and they returning do you? Weapons plans, sometimes. Most of those would be secret, and so with the fall of the old military regime, they would be locked away, and unable to accessed(Although i'm sure you can RP around that).

The point is, when you re roll, you get nothing for free, you have to work for it, and even then you still don't get everything.

Also, by 're roll' I mean, leave CNRP, or for no reason, abandon your nation and start a new one. If you are conquered in war, and reclaim your land through a rebellion, that would not count as a re roll.

Edited April 28, 2009 by LeVentNoir