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SCM's Rant against (almost) everyone


Starcraftmazter

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I personally dont think this coalition will last much longer than the end of this war.

... I don't think most people are under the impression that its supposed to, given that its not a codified organization with a charter, membership, obligations etc...

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First, the hegemony is not over. Far, far from it. The NPO still has over 900 members. There is only one alliance that comes close to that. IRON, their allies.

AFAIK, they are flooding their AA with n00bs to keep up appearances of retaining a high number of members. As for the Hegemony, I believe it was over even before the war - this could be evident with people's attitudes on the forums, and NPO being forced to implement changes, even if they are for PR. This war is just the proof the the Hegemony was over.

As long as they still have the numbers, as long as they still have allies and as long as they still have a will to play this game they will come back. They will destroy some of us.

As long as we have the same treaties as we currently do, I doubt it.

But should we give them the ability to enjoy the game in this way?

Well, I think the answer to that is obvious for anyone who dislikes the way the NPO has handled themselves over the last 2 years, and that answer is no.

That sounds horrible =/

Everyone should enjoy the game - so long as it is not at the expense of others.

Some might say that by giving NPO and co harsh terms we are sowing the seeds for revenge and not really changing anything, and I will agree, we may be doing just that. But I fear the retribution will only come much sooner if we dont see to it that they are not capable of getting revenge any time soon. But I believe this can be done without perpetual war, and without forcing them to disband or infringing upon their sovereignty. I do not believe this will come through leniency.

I really used to be like you for the longest time, and wished harsh terms on NPO's soul. These days, I just don't see the point though. I'm very confident we won't let them ever do this - what they have done in the past - ever again.

Edited by Starcraftmazter
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AFAIK, they are flooding their AA with n00bs to keep up appearances of retaining a high number of members. As for the Hegemony, I believe it was over even before the war - this could be evident with people's attitudes on the forums, and NPO being forced to implement changes, even if they are for PR. This war is just the proof the the Hegemony was over.

That may be the case, but either way 900 guys is hard to deal with, plus, I really dont think there is "hundreds" of noobs out there all joining NPO keeping their numbers up.

As long as we have the same treaties as we currently do, I doubt it.

How long is it going to take for the alliances that have formed Karma to go their own ways? I believe it is not our treaties necessarily that have allowed us to get the upper hand on NPO and co, it is Karma, a non-formal non-binding verbal agreement which can end at any given moment, a single alliance changing sides(or opinions) could tip the balance, once that goes away, if NPO and co still have the numbers, we could end up in another world conflict, which would be fun, but we could very well end up in the same boat we were 6 months ago.

That sounds horrible =/

Everyone should enjoy the game - so long as it is not at the expense of others.

I think you missed my point. My point was that NPO has enjoyed the game by stepping on others, disbanding alliances, keeping alliances under their bootheel, at the expense of others. This is how they have rolled for quite some time now. If this is how they enjoy the game (eg at the expense of others) then they should not be allowed to enjoy the game in that way, which is what they have been doing. Thats not horrible at all, thats what this war is about, putting an end to that sort of stuff. I just fear that any terms that allow them to be able to rebuild in a few months, are just going to allow them to continue doing what they have always done. No, I dont wish upon them what they have done to others, not in the least, but if they are allowed to exist with the same kind of numbers and overwhelmingly high NS they will go on to do exactly as they have always done, and we will have changed nothing.

I really used to be like you for the longest time, and wished harsh terms on NPO's soul. These days, I just don't see the point though. I'm very confident we won't let them ever do this - what they have done in the past - ever again.

I do not wish harsh terms upon their soul as you have so lightly put it. I dont really have anything against them. They play the game very very well, better than almost all of CN. However, this war is supposed to be about change, it is supposed to be about the end of the hegemony, and I truly do not believe that giving them white peace while they are still the largest alliance in CN, both in numbers and total NS, is going to achieve either of those goals. They will be back on their feet in no time if that is the case, they will be plotting in back channels of the IRC, and anyone who wronged them in any way better be fearful of them and what they can do. How much will it take to get flip flopping alliances to flip flop? I truely believe that is exactly what they will do, because it is exactly what I would do, if I was in their position. They are not known for being forgiving, are they?

But heh, thats just MHO. I guess only time will tell, I just hope I dont get to say "I told you so" come next summer or this coming winter. Then again who knows. Maybe by that time Ill have joined them, lol.

One last point I want to make is this - the punishment should "fit" the crime. And if NPO's so called "crimes" are what most of CN agrees they are, then the punishment should be quite harsh, at least for their Gov. Giving white peace to an alliance accused of the things the NPO is accused of is like giving a murderer a probation sentence. UNLESS, at the end of the war NPO is so decimated that they could not possibly regain the amount of power and NS they once had in any short amount of time. In that case the war itself could be considered punishment enough, and white peace should definitely be given.

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That may be the case, but either way 900 guys is hard to deal with, plus, I really dont think there is "hundreds" of noobs out there all joining NPO keeping their numbers up.

Don't know about hundreds either, but they seem to have enough in their applicant AA or another AA or perhaps banks off AA, etc to keep their numbers up.

And n00bs certainly are not anything to deal with.

How long is it going to take for the alliances that have formed Karma to go their own ways? I believe it is not our treaties necessarily that have allowed us to get the upper hand on NPO and co, it is Karma, a non-formal non-binding verbal agreement which can end at any given moment, a single alliance changing sides(or opinions) could tip the balance, once that goes away, if NPO and co still have the numbers, we could end up in another world conflict, which would be fun, but we could very well end up in the same boat we were 6 months ago.

And then we rinse and repeat and do what we did with the Karma war. The fun never ends.

No, I dont wish upon them what they have done to others, not in the least, but if they are allowed to exist with the same kind of numbers and overwhelmingly high NS they will go on to do exactly as they have always done, and we will have changed nothing.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here, as I simply don't see that happening. For one, EZI will be pretty much abolished after this war, and all the alliances/communities previously banished from the game will be allowed to return. So in that sense, CN will already never go back to what it was.

and I truly do not believe that giving them white peace while they are still the largest alliance in CN, both in numbers and total NS, is going to achieve either of those goals.

They are not going to get a white peace, I never argued for a white peace for NPO and it certainly won't happen. The biggest way in which NPO will be hurt after this war is ideologically - not economically. I feel this is adequate in order to not allow NPO to return to their position of power. No matter how many reps we could demand or how harsh of terms we could devise, they will always be able to rebuild and come back - and it would just make them really determined to get back at us if we did give them harsh terms.

They will be back on their feet in no time if that is the case, they will be plotting in back channels of the IRC, and anyone who wronged them in any way better be fearful of them and what they can do. How much will it take to get flip flopping alliances to flip flop? I truely believe that is exactly what they will do, because it is exactly what I would do, if I was in their position. They are not known for being forgiving, are they?

With allies like mine, I really couldn't care less. I think that's true for most of Karma.

Edited by Starcraftmazter
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It's a personal choice. This is a lot of fun for me :)

I used to tell myself and others close to me the same thing when I was hyper engaged 24/7 in past incarnations... and even this present one on occasion.

Take a deep breath and a short step from the keyboard, friend (and IC ally :P).

This game is super addictive, especially as it so closely mimics life and can even replace it without you even realizing it....

Also, as to your WaLly WoRlD O' TeXT....ttl,dr (j/k...sorta...seriously...)

also, fwiw: o/ admin's great creative and sociologically fascinating adventure, so he does not smite me. :P

Edited by General Specific
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SCM, you may be right. I think one thing we differ in is maybe our idea of what harsh terms are. For example, I would consider forcing them to get rid of military wonders, decommision all nukes, no military improvements, no more than 30% soldiers for a period of lets say, 90 days, not to mention having their top 30 come out of peace mode for some pounding to be harsh, but doable and so fair game in this war.

You may be right about things not going back to what they were too. I think I just worry that they will because I see so many surrenders already and even though they have been taken down a notch I still see the NPO alone having a large advantage in numbers and NS against any other alliance in the game. If peace were to be given any time soon, Im just not sure if this war will be enough to really change things. If NPO stays at the top, then the status quo hasnt changed IMO.

But, oh well. I like you do also have faith in my alliances allies. My gov has made it quite clear in the time I have been in NV that we are very picky with our allies. We would fight to the death for them and they us, so in that respect Im not really worried. However, if I were in Sparta or even maybe MHA, I think I would be at least a little worried if NPO still stays in the top spot after this war.

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I don't even know where to begin.

Outrage at spies? It's a natural and unavoidable consequence of the high-stakes nature of the world in which we live. Speaking as an individual, I can't really feel outraged when I hear that it has occurred. Sure, like everyone else, I don't advocate it, and I'll even condemn it on occasion. When my alliance is spied upon, I do not feel a sense of moral outrage or indignation. I react by purging spies and tightening security.

Outrage at Vox? Again, they're a fact of life. They exist. They're an outlet for the frustration that a segment of our planet feels. At first I disliked them for their phony portrayal of themselves as victims, when many of the more vocal elements of their membership actually supported hegemony when it served their own agendas. They original struck me as people who felt a sense of entitlement to rule the world, and turned into crybabies when they found themselves stripped of the power they had grown accustom to wielding, and I absolutely hated their BS propaganda that lured a lot of wannabe rebels to their side. My initial impressions may or may not be right, but it doesn't really matter anymore. Vox has evolved into an organization that serves a useful purpose (they keep the game interesting), and for that I've grown to like them. Like a crazy old uncle in a tinfoil hat, their eccentricity is quite endearing.

Outrage at trolls? That's like being outraged at earthquakes or floods. Trolls are a force of nature, and it's better to develop strategies for ignoring, neutralizing, or avoiding them than to impotently shake your fist in rage.

I like realpolitik. I like the drama. Infra, tech, cruise missiles, etc. are almost irrelevant.

-Craig

Edited by Comrade Craig
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