Van Hoo III Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 You have got to be kidding me. Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailsK Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 TOOL's stance here makes perfect sense and is about the best way they could go about navigating the minefield of seemingly contradictory obligations that this war entails for them. They have handled this situation much better and more honorably than many other alliances in the past few days. The only reason they are getting more criticism is because they are on the "wrong" side. Let's face it, if they had "defended" RoK and not TPF, then they would be getting hailed right now, and the few voices criticizing would be ignored and drowned out. No, TOOL did what they believed was the best course of action for them, and they have given no (legitimate) reason to be disparaged. Tell me this, we are dishonourable for not defending RoK, yet by NOT defending and staying neutral it would of been honourable? TailsK it doesnt add up. Note how I did not say that TOOL should have defended RoK. I stated that being neutral was an option. TPF and Ragnarok were both attacked at the same time. This would lead one to assume that the defensive parts of their MDoAPs would have activated at the same time. In this case, staying neutral would have been more honourable indeed. It adds up as easy as 1 + 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 You're a terrible sith You're a terrible person in general. <3 Note how I did not say that TOOL should have defended RoK. I stated that being neutral was an option. TPF and Ragnarok were both attacked at the same time. This would lead one to assume that the defensive parts of their MDoAPs would have activated at the same time. In this case, staying neutral would have been more honourable indeed. It adds up as easy as 1 + 1. The gist of it seems to be that RoK was not obligated to enter the war, whereas TPF was. Makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailsK Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) The gist of it seems to be that RoK was not obligated to enter the war, whereas TPF was. Makes sense to me. Of course we're weren't obligated, hence the word "optional" in MDoAP. We took that option and assisted our friend. I fail to see your point. These treaties are not new, they are treaties that Ragnarok have had for a long time. I don't recall TOOL's treaty specifying that it would be void if we are aggressive at any point in time. Edit: Grammar. Edited April 24, 2009 by TailsK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishnokof Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Of course we're weren't obligated, hence the word "optional" in MDoAP. We took that option and assisted our friend. I fail to see your point. These treaties are not new, they are treaties that Ragnarok have had for a long time. I don't recall TOOL's treaty specifying that it would be void if we are aggressive at any point in time.Edit: Grammar. TOOL are obligated to defend us against IRON, Legion, or Echelon. Our treaty makes this extremely clear. Article I: Mutual DefenseAny declaration of war upon a member of either alliance is considered an act of aggression to the undersigned member alliances. Peace will only be offered through mutual consent of the alliances represented by the undersigned; and only accepted under the same terms. Diplomatic channels will remain open in the event that a declaration of war by an outside alliance is an unsanctioned operation. Very honorable indeed TOOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamkeatley Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Rish, im disappointed. Very. We had discussed this at length last weekend. Where TOOL explicitly and in-depth explained our stance to you in a Gov-Gov discussion. I left with the impression RoK were understanding of or stance on this issue. We do have conflicting Treaties, and we made a choice on the path at which we could best honour them all, and we did so by not supporting those who wished to inact the Optional Aggression upon entering the war. Rish; we had this conversation. Maybe 3 times; between you, Alf and Lee. Im disappointed you are now seemingly flipping and dragging this into the public domain. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewish Lord Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 well O/ DT and her allies... you're a sanctioned alliance hitting an alliance that barely makes a dent in CN... i'll tell you what though.. you made a really big mistake with that.. maybe you should realize what you're getting into next time before you try to pin down the weak guys... g/l... you really are going to need it... and it sucks you're going to lose that sanction.. O/ DT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arentak Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 TPF was one of TOOL's protectors when TOOL was founded. TOOL fought beside TPF in the UJW, and not so long ago against some random german alliance. In conflicting times, is it any wonder they rolled with the partner they are closest too? Cover it up in legalese all you want, TOOL-TPF is a very special bond over at TOOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Bring it. Welcome to the show I suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalaskan Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 well O/ DT and her allies...you're a sanctioned alliance hitting an alliance that barely makes a dent in CN... i'll tell you what though.. you made a really big mistake with that.. maybe you should realize what you're getting into next time before you try to pin down the weak guys... g/l... you really are going to need it... and it sucks you're going to lose that sanction.. O/ DT! I think they knew that coming in. I also believe they should stick with their friends and closest allies. Nothing wrong with that. I have gained some respect for TOOL, regardless of which side we fall on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Dracula Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 TPF was one of TOOL's protectors when TOOL was founded. TOOL fought beside TPF in the UJW, and not so long ago against some random german alliance. In conflicting times, is it any wonder they rolled with the partner they are closest too? Cover it up in legalese all you want, TOOL-TPF is a very special bond over at TOOL. TGE had nearly that same bond with TPF, didn't stop them from abandoning us. I would have thought TOOL would have seen the way TPF did NPO and chosen a different path. (Yes I know they honored the treaty, but it took mass ridicule to make it happen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscher Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Good luck TOOL. You and TPF truly deserve each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 The Hammer smashes. Excellent DoW. GK and TOOL are some of the most honorable people in the game. You have a wonderful opponent DT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willirica Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 The only major difference I see, and which I admittedly did miss, is the part about equal resources to each side. As for the part about bandwagoners, needless to say, we will not be pleased if anyone bandwagons on ANY of our allies, including those who entered on oA.-Bama I dont appreciate being called a bandwagoner for defending our allies through thick and thin, btw all of whom would do the same for us. Not so sure about those tpf clowns your so found of. Either way im sure you were thinking you would have an easy victory when your chose to declare on an alliance so disproportionally sized to your own. However that is far from the truth and i look foward to personally de sanctioning you. o/ DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O Town Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 TOOL 343 nations strong Dark Templar 43 nations. AND YOU PUNKS WANT TO TALK ABOUT HONOR?? WTF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O Town Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I believe that TOOL is afraid to lose their sanction which is why they chose the puss route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjav0 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 They will, their side will loose this war, we will come for them. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriais Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Hammer time DT. :jihad: EDIT: I saw all the bandwagon claims here. We activated a defence treaty. Admittedly, yes, DT is significantly weaker than ourselves. Is this relevant? No. They made us activate this with their attack. Do you think we shouldn't fuffil our treaty obligations because DT who attacked TPF is smaller than us? Use your heads. Afraid of losing sanction? Why would we be? We have our flag, and that's all i wanted. We were fine just outside the sanction zone for years, and we would be now. TOOL's community barely changed with sanction. EDIT 2: I can't spell. Edited April 24, 2009 by Miriais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O Town Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Its only "not relevant" if you are a tool. To the rest of planet bob its pretty relevant bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willirica Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hammer time DT. :jihad:EDIT: I saw all the bandwagon claims here. We activated a defence treaty. Admittedly, yes, DT is significantly weaker than ourselves. Is this relevant? No. They made us activate this with their attack. Do you think we shouldn't fuffil our treaty obligations because DT who attacked TPF is smaller than us? Use your heads. Afraid of losing sanction? Why would we be? We have our flag, and that's all i wanted. We were fine just outside the sanction zone for years, and we would be now. TOOL's community barely changed with sanction. EDIT 2: I can't spell. Because of all the alliances who declared on tpf, you choose the smallest ;( but like i said earlier: smaller ? yes. Weaker? no, not by a long shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PankPire Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Wow... TOOL goes too war. ex-TOOL represent ITT. Didn't see this coming to be honest. o/ ZI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khellendros Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 we chose DT to honor our treaty with TPF and as a result we will be attacked by more of you karma cowards, this is a tactical decision so that we don't over extend ourselves, but god forbid any of you would actually think for a second before flaming... i know that you aren't capable of that so i'll just end this with o/ TOOL o/ TPF o/ NPO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquis Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Its nice to see the attitude of so many on this forum is "My side or you're satan.". What happened to respecting your opponents and wishing well to people. TOOL went to war like many others just leave it at that and enjoy the war. This game isnt that serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khellendros Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 i have no problem showing respect i would prefer it, but i can't allow TOOL to be slandered as it is being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquis Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 It wasnt really directed at you but the people who come into these threads and say "OMG you gonna die now." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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