Republic of Mariehamm goes to War

[Uberstein]

OOC: Well, i'm sorry, but you defeated your own argument. There IS NO INTERNATIONAL LAW. You have no legal grounds to claim I CAN'T have had an estate since the holy roman empire, and Malatose said it was still there when I asked him. Besides, I think ethnic cleansing is still a good enough reason to go to war, but maybe some people don't mind that.

OOC:

Royal or otherwise Noble families in Europe often own estates in lands other than those they control as a sovereign. It is nothing more than a private estate owned by a family, no greater or less than any other land owned by anybody else in that nation. Thus, Uberstein owned the land as a personal citizen, not the nation of Uberstein in any way, regardless of the fact that he controlled both.

OOC: Only the Noble families IRL owned the land as PART of a country. Uberstein's land was never part of Germany or even Marten's land, it was part of the HRE, which has been gone for quite awhile. Either way, I've declared war IC for IC reasons, and OOC whining isn't going to make that go away. Win the propaganda war IC or wipe me and my government off the map if you want to win.

[Malatose]

OOC: Well, i'm sorry, but you defeated your own argument. There IS NO INTERNATIONAL LAW. You have no legal grounds to claim I CAN'T have had an estate since the holy roman empire, and Malatose said it was still there when I asked him. Besides, I think ethnic cleansing is still a good enough reason to go to war, but maybe some people don't mind that.

OOC: Only the Noble families IRL owned the land as PART of a country. Uberstein's land was never part of Germany or even Marten's land, it was part of the HRE, which has been gone for quite awhile. Either way, I've declared war IC for IC reasons, and OOC whining isn't going to make that go away. Win the propaganda war IC or wipe me and my government off the map if you want to win.

OOC: You asked was the Mansion still there, I said yes. You never said you owned the land. I do believe I have the logs from our conversation regarding that.

[Uberstein]

OOC: You asked was the Mansion still there, I said yes. You never said you owned the land. I do believe I have the logs from our conversation regarding that.

OOC: I think it goes without saying that I owned the land. I asked if UBERSTEIN's estate still existed, because I was uninformed about what had happened to that specific area nuclear wise.

[Manetheren]

OOC: Only the Noble families IRL owned the land as PART of a country. Uberstein's land was never part of Germany or even Marten's land, it was part of the HRE, which has been gone for quite awhile. Either way, I've declared war IC for IC reasons, and OOC whining isn't going to make that go away. Win the propaganda war IC or wipe me and my government off the map if you want to win.

Not in other countries they didn't. The Brandenburgs (rulers of Prussia) ruled both Prussia and a number of other smaller German states, while still maintaining hereditary land in other lands where they were technically vassals to the ruler of that particular land

[Uberstein]

Not in other countries they didn't. The Brandenburgs (rulers of Prussia) ruled both Prussia and a number of other smaller German states, while still maintaining hereditary land in other lands where they were technically vassals to the ruler of that particular land

OOC: Well, you forget the fact that this land isn't INSIDE his country, it is not inside ANY country.

[Kaiser Martens]

OOC: And I know OOC you're wrong. Bavarians even have a different sounding language than "Normal" German.

OOC: This is CNRP, not RL. In RL, you're correct, in CNRP, you're not. STOP mixing IC and OOC.

You are mistaken. What Germany did was the equivalent of storming an embassy. Embassies belong to the nation they are supposed to represent.

"We do not agree with your position."

1. Please define what activity an old man who never left the manor and rarely communicated with anything outside it could have done.

2. Is an embassy actually marked on a map as the sovereign territory of the nation it represents? No. But it is still considered to be.

This was no embassy, it didn't have any type of sovereignty nor it was granted by our Government nor it had any specific purpose such as FA. As for 1, we don't have to clarify internal business.

OOC: Furthermore see Emperor Mudd's and Brian Reimers' posts on Page 3.

OOC: Well, i'm sorry, but you defeated your own argument. There IS NO INTERNATIONAL LAW. You have no legal grounds to claim I CAN'T have had an estate since the holy roman empire, and Malatose said it was still there when I asked him. Besides, I think ethnic cleansing is still a good enough reason to go to war, but maybe some people don't mind that.

OOC: You sir keep being told that we haven't engaged in ethnic cleansing but keep saying opposite, it's OUR nations, WE know and decide what happens in them, not you. You don't get to decide what our inner policies are or cause, because you don't RP our nations. As such, no ethnic cleansing in Nordlandic nations. Plus, I did ALSO say the land had been even in my first Empire in CNRP before you were even around.

Also, state IC whether if you're gonna go to the peace conference proposed by Molakia or not. Cut the OOC and start RPing. You claim to be all IC but don't quite do anything ICly.

[Uberstein]

OOC: You sir keep being told that we haven't engaged in ethnic cleansing but keep saying opposite, it's OUR nations, WE know and decide what happens in them, not you. You don't get to decide what our inner policies are or cause, because you don't RP our nations. As such, no ethnic cleansing in Nordlandic nations. Plus, I did ALSO say the land had been even in my first Empire in CNRP before you were even around.

Also, state IC whether if you're gonna go to the peace conference proposed by Molakia or not. Cut the OOC and start RPing. You claim to be all IC but don't quite do anything ICly.

OOC: Well then, I guess i'll just IGNORE your posts saying that you're going to create a single Nordlandic race, that you are getting rid of Swedish, Norwegian, and other cultures.

Let me explain this to you: FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, YOUR NATIONS ARE DOING ETHNIC CLEANSING. I HAVE IN CHARACTER REASONS FOR THIS WAR, I HAVE ACTED IN CHARACTER, SORRY THAT I AM RESPONDING TO YOUR OOC ARGUMENTS, PERHAPS I SHOULD IGNORE THEM?

Also, I never saw you post, ever, in new reports CNRP back in Febuary of 2007, there were at least 3 nations in Germany, you weren't there. Uberstein was there, his history was he came from a wealthy family in Germany, and he has a seperate estate.

Take your own advice, and do something IC instead of trying to win this war with OOC. There is a war happening, get over it and do something about it instead of whining.

[Kaiser Martens]

OOC: You REALLY don't understand what the whole Nordlandic business is about.

Nordlandic when compared to modern terms means the following:

1: Racially, those who are mostly of Germanic ethnicity. That is Germanic, not German alone. There are however a large number of Slavs that have joined the Nordlanders though, and aren't racially distinguished although they're technically Slavic.

2: Anyone belong to the Germanic meta-ethnicity, referring to the origin and culture of ancient Germanic peoples prior to the Völkerwanderung. This includes basically at least all peoples who have a Germanic culture, whether if it is West Germanic or North Germanic.

Nordlandic surged from a spontaneous mix of large amounts of Germanic population. In order to get along, they took the common elements to their different (yet similar) cultures, and so a proto-nordlandic identity was created over time. The same happened with the language, they took elements from all of their different - yet similar - languages to achieve intelligibility between each other, originating proto-nordlandic language.

After this, the Government set a standard of Official Nordlandic, becoming Nordlandic as we knew it. By then, the cultures had fused into one without the Government's intervention, because of two factors: 1: for the most part, they weren't THAT different, but more importantly 2: Their differences became occluded when compared to the large amount of peoples of extremely different cultures they interacted with.

As such, Nordlandic was a spontaneous social thing that happened, that later was given a proper frame by the Government, however the Government had no part in its creation. It resembles the creation of Germany stemming from many different small states, which many times had differerent - yet German-like - languages.

We didn't destroy an old culture to put forth a new one, the cultures mixed due to the prevalence of a multicultural society.

Ethnic cleansing has nothing to do with this, ethnic cleansing implies the use of violence such as forced re-location, imprisonment, death or just about anything we'd consider a crime in order to artificially create racial superiority of one group over the other. In reality, Nordlandic culture was in a way created by Ethnic Cleansing of foreigners against the pre-Nordlandic populations - the reason why old Germany in CNRP became a melting pot was because many Scandinavians and other Germanic peoples had been expelled or had otherwise to flee from their old territories.

What you think is otherwise that we more or less forced people at gunpoint to see themselves as Nordlandic, which is absolutely ridiculous and would only have resulted in civil wars - that's why you also complain I don't RP dissent - why would I? Nothing was forced.

The blurry line in Nordlandic ethnicity is that Nordlanders tend to view other Germanic people (Who do not identify themselves as Nordlanders) as Nordlanders as well, however as Nordlandic ethnicity develops it will become dissimilar from other Germanic cultures, the prime example is the extremely liberal yet extremely militaristic or "spartanlike" Nordheim, with institutions such as Thralldom, and its emphasis on Germanic Religion.

Also...for reference, most countries that exist IRL don't exist in CNRP, so the majority of the world cultures are pretty much nonexistant in CNRP, since their countries of origin don't even exist anymore or sometimes aren't ruled by natives. In reality you're the one who's opposing cultures, überstein, I never see you RP anything regarding your Finns, your Norweigans or your Swedes or anyone for that matter. Hell, most nations don't RP culture - period.

[Uberstein]

OOC: Oh sure, you say that here, but every RP you have written that I've read has given a much different impression. If you ask me, you're just trying to weasel your way out of the fact that you have no respect for the real cultures of Europe, which is the impression from all the talks we have had on the issue from before I removed you from my MSN.

Language isn't the only difference Martens.

Also, if nothing was forced, your nation would have no "Nordlanders" because Ubersteinia didn't even teach that ideology.

The reason I don't RP culture is because I am not trying to change it. I don't have to keep re-enforcing false ideals, so I just don't mention it and let people assume that the culture is the same as the land I'm on.

Edited April 25, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Justinian the Mighty]

ooc: KM you and the rest of Nordland have forced the Nordic ways on the cultures of Europe. Most recently the Russians/Slavs who don't consider themselves Nords and in Slavorussia's case, the people there hate fascism, and extreme nationalism. If you guys rp'ed the occupation realistically you would be fighting a very serious civil war in Russia right now. The monarchy may not have been perfect, but Fascist and nationalistic it was most certainly not.

I think thats all I have to say about that.

[The Confederation]

OOC: Well, i'm sorry, but you defeated your own argument. There IS NO INTERNATIONAL LAW. You have no legal grounds to claim I CAN'T have had an estate since the holy roman empire, and Malatose said it was still there when I asked him. Besides, I think ethnic cleansing is still a good enough reason to go to war, but maybe some people don't mind that.

OOC:

Will you please answer why you're paying taxes and link me to the land being a sovereign part of Mariehamm?

[Uberstein]

OOC:

Will you please answer why you're paying taxes and link me to the land being a sovereign part of Mariehamm?

OOC: He wasn't paying taxes, he has the ol Ubersteinian humor and is senile. I explained that already.

I hadn't gotten around to RPing it, but I was planning too. Besides, THE WAR IS HAPPENING, YOU CAN'T WIN WITH OOC. Get that though your head.

[The Confederation]

OOC: He wasn't paying taxes, he has the ol Ubersteinian humor and is senile. I explained that already.

I hadn't gotten around to RPing it, but I was planning too. Besides, THE WAR IS HAPPENING, YOU CAN'T WIN WITH OOC. Get that though your head.

OOC:

...So we're fighting a war over encroachment of territory...that hasn't been RPed of being owned by anyone but the nation that has it on the map >_>

*takes note*

[Malatose]

Secret IC

Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) ("High Command of the Armed Forces")

The declaration of war upon the German Reich was of no surprise. With the way the Republic of Mariehamm had been acting, Scolar Visari had predicted they would be the aggressors. Indeed, Mariehamm was threatening the very peace that Europe had been enjoying for months, something they claimed to be fighting for. Nevertheless, the Oberster Befehlshaber der Wehrmacht, acting from orders of the Kaiser, ordered the general mobilization of the Wehrmacht. These were mostly precautionary steps.

Mobilization

All German military districts were placed on high alert, along with fortification and defensive structures. One hundred thousand troops along with one thousand tanks were to be deployed to the Nordic Confederacy Protectorate as part of these defensive measures. The soldiers were to be transported by air; while heavy armour was the transported by high-speed rail. In addition, the six hundred thousand troops of the Wehrmact Reserve were to be called up to reinforce the regular army incase of hostilities. It would take up to three days for these troops to report to their post.

All Luftwaffe air assets, along with air defense systems were placed on high alert. Luftwaffe Xenian AWACs would patrol the skies on a regular bases, along with German Lu-65 fighters and Lu-47 High Speed Interceptors.

On the coast, the Kreigsmarine were to be deployed immediately and begin surface patrol measures. All mines were activated along the German coast, with only German naval craft being given the correct codes to pass through.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Malatose

[Markus Wilding]

Although we have no official stance at the time, we will keep our rifles loaded in case this becomes more serious.

[Tahsir]

OOC: cut the taxes issue. The person arrested didnt even own the land, so he can't have paid the taxes on it in the first place.

Cut the race issue.

Cut the OOC. seriously. Fight the war.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Tahsir Re

[Generalissimo]

It’s a shame it’s come to this, apparently the Europeans are entirely incapable of peaceful reemergence.

Keeping in mind the restrictions on Nordic Confederation shipping from the invasion of Russia are still in effect, for the duration of the conflict ships from anyone participating in this conflict will not be permitted to traverse Procinctian waters.

As Generalissimo of Procinctia I am unable to show an ounce preference to either warring party beyond wishing an old friend luck.

From the office of Generalissimo, Generalissimo of Procinctia

Out of Character Stuff:

ooc: KM you and the rest of Nordland have forced the Nordic ways on the cultures of Europe. Most recently the Russians/Slavs who don't consider themselves Nords and in Slavorussia's case, the people there hate fascism, and extreme nationalism. If you guys rp'ed the occupation realistically you would be fighting a very serious civil war in Russia right now. The monarchy may not have been perfect, but Fascist and nationalistic it was most certainly not.

I think thats all I have to say about that.

We’re really bad at playing occupations around here. It is very rare for an occupying force to be welcomed as liberators with hugs, flowers, and parades.

Also...for reference, most countries that exist IRL don't exist in CNRP, so the majority of the world cultures are pretty much nonexistant in CNRP, since their countries of origin don't even exist anymore or sometimes aren't ruled by natives. In reality you're the one who's opposing cultures, überstein, I never see you RP anything regarding your Finns, your Norweigans or your Swedes or anyone for that matter. Hell, most nations don't RP culture - period.

Considering I play an unrealistic Aleut-Caribbean country, I have to agree with Martins here, Real World cultures don’t factor much into CRNP. Edited April 25, 2009 by Generalissimo

[Uberstein]

[Classified]

Mariehamm Forces have moved forward past the static defenses to the actual boarder.

The 1st and 2nd division have moved to the city of Muonio. They are supported by 55 PanssariAuto Kilpikonna's and 10 Steinhammer-E's. A Field Artillery attachment has been set up behind the city.

The 3rd Division has moved to:

Latitude 69° 5'27.09"N

Longitude 20°46'2.94"E

With orders to Prevent river crossings there and blockade the E8 highway, the only road though the northern mountains. They are supported by 25 PanssariAuto Kilpikonna's and a towed howitzer brigade.

The 4th and 5th Divisions have moved to the city of Yiltornio. They are supported by 25 PanssariAuto Kilpikonna's and 25 Steinhammer-E's.

The 6th Division has moved to Tornio, and is supported by 55 PanssariAuto Kilpikonna's and 10 Steinhammer-E's

The 7th Division has moved to Kolari, and is supported by 55 PanssariAuto Kilpikonna's and 10 Steinhammer-E's

The rest of the boarder is being mined, including sea-mines in the rivers.

Edited April 25, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Uberstein]

The entire river on the boarder has been mined. Heavy howitzers have been brought into Tornio.

[The Confederation]

OOC: This has bugged me for almost a year...it's spelled "Border" not "Boarder". The latter is someone who pays rent to live in a house.

IC:

The Prussic-Kreigsmarine will continue to monitor Baltic supremacy projects. Geosync satellites are closely watching the border regions and creating a comprehensive analysis of defense.

[Uberstein]

OOC: This has bugged me for almost a year...it's spelled "Border" not "Boarder". The latter is someone who pays rent to live in a house.

IC:

The Prussic-Kreigsmarine will continue to monitor Baltic supremacy projects. Geosync satellites are closely watching the border regions and creating a comprehensive analysis of defense.

OOC: Well excuse me. :roll:

IC:

Camouflage and other such tactics are being used to prevent satellite spying on positions. Vehicles are painted the same color as the ground, or placed under camouflage netting. Thanks to mountains, forests, and city, it is easy to hide.

[The Confederation]

It strikes satellite operation crews that pieces of ground glow red on infrared mapping signals.

[Uberstein]

It strikes satellite operation crews that pieces of ground glow red on infrared mapping signals.

OOC: Last I checked, Infrared space tech was incredibly inaccurate.

Source please?

Besides, my troops are in cities, good luck seeing one infrared from another.

Edited April 28, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[The Confederation]

OOC: Last I checked, Infrared space tech was incredibly inaccurate.

Source please?

Besides, my troops are in cities, good luck seeing one infrared from another.

OOC: Currently, Infrared Satellites CAN be accurate if they're dedicated to that exact cause. The problem with inaccuracy right now is that they're being used for other things like weather monitoring or even oceanography.

Image from a dedicated (pretty rare and expensive in the current day, but 20 or so years from now, I'd assume it was better)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-12 ---> A system put in service in 1990 and used widely in the "War on Terror" that has dedicated infrared systems. They were used in Afghanistan for finding cave entrances and watching the trucks going out of them.

[King Kevz]

"Will both sides please look at the real issue that will occur from any war that takes place. Civilian families will be killed or lose loved ones for some stupid piece of dirt and for a wrongful arrest. There are times where war is neccessary but this is not one of them both sides need to settle down, let off some steam and work out a peaceful solution to this problem".