Lord Frost Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 So you're saying that everything is unforgivable. I'm sorry, but that's not right, I'm sure if someone other than Sumeragi came home with an altered mental state (drunk/stoned) or angry about something, and needs to take it out. It's a game, and it's played for fun, but when people come in and say, "Hey, she made a mistake!" This isn't real life. Actions do not get played out with real people. It's possible to take things back. However, I agree that Sumer needs to start up again with land in her SoI, this way everyone's happy. We've seen the screenshot, we know how big her SoI is, and I'm not opposed to her starting up with that amount of land. This is my official stance, I'm not going to budge. I'm not saying she can't start up. She just can't start up in Asia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Whether your willing or not is besides the point. As LVN has stated quite clearly, her invasion was a purely legit IC action and cannot be taken back. I'm also not giving an inch back Frost, if both parties of an action agree to stop it, it can be stopped. This is not Sumer sayong "oops," this is Sumer and Sargun agreeing to erase the whole incident. I don;t like confrontations, but she will be re-starting in Asia. Edited April 24, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Frost, if both parties of an action agree to stop it, it can be stopped. This is not Sumer sayong "oops," this is Sumer and Sargun agreeing to erase the whole incident.I don;t like confrontations, but she will be re-starting in Asia. No. She wont. There is no land available, too much "Former Altin Urda" RP has occured, nor will any rp by her in Asia be recognized. She is no longer welcome in Asia. There are new players there and they arn't going anywhere. And yes, this is sumeragi saying "oops Im going to get rolled. Lol I reverse what I did". I am going to stand by LVN and Vince's ruling, and if you have a problem with that feel free to PM me. She is going to accept the consequences of the legitimate, irreversible, IC actions she took whether you the GMs or she likes it or not. I really don't care who all supports it or not, the precedent you are attempting to set is horrible and if someone has to look like jackass and stand in the way then I'll do it Edited April 24, 2009 by Lord Frost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSchaine Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 As you can see from the post just before mine, she has a big enough SoI...but it's in the wrong place. That being said, if she moves her capital, I am willing to let her have most of that territory back, and to ret-con the whole thing. RL does take precedence. Didnt AU stretch from the western side of Kazakhstan to the Pacific? No way that SoI covers all that. http://f.imagehost.org/0313/557_copy.png Thats the map after Sumeragi got taken off it. I think AU covered all of the white space in Asia as well as the Bejing Corp. holdings. Even my SoI is too small for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 No. She wont. There is no land available, too much "Former Altin Urda" RP has occured, nor will any rp by her in Asia be recognized. There are new players there and they arn't going anywhere. And yes, this is sumeragi saying "oops Im going to get rolled. Lol I reverse what I did". I am going to stand by LVN and Vince's ruling, and if you have a problem with that feel free to PM me. She is going to accept the consequences of the legitimate, irreversible, IC actions she took whether you the GMs or she likes it or not. I really don't care who all supports it or not, the precedent you are attempting to set is horrible and if someone has to look like jackass and stand in the way then I'll do it My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) I stand fully supportive behind those that wish to keep Sumeragi out of Asia on the grounds she started a conflict and on the secondary grounds that her first land claim was widely recognized as being ridiculously large compared to her SOI. I'm sorry, I just cannot permit myself to endorse exclusions to the rules we have stood by so long. Those who sympathize with Sumeragi need to re-evaluate their position. Sure she is a player. Sure she has a right to play. She also has the right to deal with the consequences of her actions and the right to start anew in Antarctica as any other player without a proper and justifiable land claim would. Anyone want to research how many times Sumeragi and others on this board has preached to others that they must deal with the consequences of their actions no matter how easily correctable and reversible the issue was? Edited April 24, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I kind of agree here. I know from personal experience, which some people can back up, that you are NOT allowed to retcon incidents at all. None ever. However, if there is white space in Asia and Sumergai sets up there then as long as she doesn't follow the same government as the one that started the war then I can't see why she can't set up there. However, I also disagree that anyone who has land there has to give it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 No. She wont. There is no land available, too much "Former Altin Urda" RP has occured, nor will any rp by her in Asia be recognized. She is no longer welcome in Asia. There are new players there and they arn't going anywhere. And yes, this is sumeragi saying "oops Im going to get rolled. Lol I reverse what I did". I am going to stand by LVN and Vince's ruling, and if you have a problem with that feel free to PM me. She is going to accept the consequences of the legitimate, irreversible, IC actions she took whether you the GMs or she likes it or not. I really don't care who all supports it or not, the precedent you are attempting to set is horrible and if someone has to look like jackass and stand in the way then I'll do it In response I point you to Vince's posts... I'm ok with this.Sumer would get her lands back and the invasion of sargun is retconned. So you're saying that everything is unforgivable. I'm sorry, but that's not right, I'm sure if someone other than Sumeragi came home with an altered mental state (drunk/stoned) or angry about something, and needs to take it out. It's a game, and it's played for fun, but when people come in and say, "Hey, she made a mistake!" This isn't real life. Actions do not get played out with real people. It's possible to take things back. However, I agree that Sumer needs to start up again with land in her SoI, this way everyone's happy. We've seen the screenshot, we know how big her SoI is, and I'm not opposed to her starting up with that amount of land. This is my official stance, I'm not going to budge. I kind of agree here. I know from personal experience, which some people can back up, that you are NOT allowed to retcon incidents at all. None ever. However, if there is white space in Asia and Sumergai sets up there then as long as she doesn't follow the same government as the one that started the war then I can't see why she can't set up there. However, I also disagree that anyone who has land there has to give it back. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY IT? WE ARE NOT GIVING HER ALL HER LAND BACK, ONLY WHAT HER SOI WILL ALLOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 In response I point you to Vince's posts...HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY IT? WE ARE NOT GIVING HER ALL HER LAND BACK, ONLY WHAT HER SOI WILL ALLOW. Give her what her SoI will allow on a different continent, as you can see by various posts from other asian entities, she is no longer welcome. She was given a chance when DKT fell and she came back as Altin Urda, only to do exactly the same things once again. And, just like DKT, she caused her own destruction, and is trying to get out of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Cent gave back all the land that was annexed along the Caspian Sea if I remember correctly, she can have that. If she doesn’t want it then I'll take it. If I cant take it then I'll blow up the world so nobody can have it. Don’t ask how I plan to do that, I haven’t thought that far ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Cent gave back all the land that was annexed along the Caspian Sea if I remember correctly, she can have that. If she doesn't want it then I'll take it. If I cant take it then I'll blow up the world so nobody can have it. Don't ask how I plan to do that, I haven't thought that far ahead. Uh huh... :lol: I see. How do you plan on doing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevz Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Uh huh... :lol: I see.How do you plan on doing that? Cheese? Also my point wasn't about the land it was about the invasion that occured you can not and will never be able to cancel something that you have already written Subtle. Im sorry but you cant or if you can il just leave this RP as I wont want apart of it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Cheese?Also my point wasn't about the land it was about the invasion that occured you can not and will never be able to cancel something that you have already written Subtle. Im sorry but you cant or if you can il just leave this RP as I wont want apart of it anymore. I think that was actually a bad precedent. Wars and invasions are launched if the aggressor actually thinks the gains and favorable conditions outweigh the risks. If someone would know something IC but doesn't OOC-wise, should they be held accountable then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I think that was actually a bad precedent. Wars and invasions are launched if the aggressor actually thinks the gains and favorable conditions outweigh the risks.If someone would know something IC but doesn't OOC-wise, should they be held accountable then? Yep, it's Offensive war. Offensive war has risks and consequences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Yep, it's Offensive war. Offensive war has risks and consequences You missed the entire question...IF THEY WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE IC, but DON'T possess it OOC-wise, then the calculations are not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 You missed the entire question...IF THEY WOULD HAVE KNOWLEDGE IC, but DON'T possess it OOC-wise, then the calculations are not realistic. Screw it, Imperialism has consequences especially in this case as Sargun announced it was his. I just refuse to recognize her pressence in Asia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Screw it, Imperialism has consequences especially in this case as Sargun announced it was his. I just refuse to recognize her pressence in Asia So if a person has been lied to, misinformed, or otherswise misled OOC, you will blame thim IC wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 So if a person has been lied to, misinformed, or otherswise misled OOC, you will blame thim IC wise? That's not the case here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 That's not the case here Oh? So you believe Sumer KNEW it was Sargun's protectorate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Oh? So you believe Sumer KNEW it was Sargun's protectorate? Actually I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Actually I do OK, then, just imagine for a moment she didn't. Would you be willing to let her get back he lands if that were the case? Edited April 25, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY IT? WE ARE NOT GIVING HER ALL HER LAND BACK, ONLY WHAT HER SOI WILL ALLOW. She can make a new claim, which is not giving her lands back. It would be a new RP entity, and so it would be new lands, not giving her back 'her' land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) I approve of this. But the nation of Altin Urda as established would have been warred with and eliminated, she needs to find a new location or at the minimum a new government to start with. Edited April 25, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 What does it matter if she's in asia or not? The haters are going to hate anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 OK, then, just imagine for a moment she didn't. Would you be willing to let her get back he lands if that were the case? I had no idea that Socialist Nueveria was Sargun's Protectorate. That's all that needs to be said. She isn't coming back in Asia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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