A Win-Win for the NPO?

[Bleh32]

lol at the part about MK.

Also, I don't think you understand the meaning of "not taking sides". This optimistic speculation is based on very few hard facts and very many arbitrary NS predictions and dates. It is clearly pro-NPO, if someone wanted to they could just as easily make those two scenarios turn out bad for the NPO.

[Captain Flinders]

This is absolutely pathetic.

[Kwilliams]

About the only thing I can agree with the OP about is the ability of NPO to regrow regardless of whether they win or lose. Love them or hate them, NPO has one of the best banking systems on Bob and I would be amazed if they didn't regrow at a fanatical pace.

[Kastro]

As a work of fantasy it was entertaining to say the least.

I wasn't entertained, and quite frankly would like those 2 minutes of my life back.

[Crohl]

No one left anyone high and dry. NPO needed to realize that its treaties are between allies, and they were taught a brief lesson. Now we are here.

You're here because you have no choice. You're here because you realized after bailing on NPO that Karma was till gonna pick you cowards off, one by one if necessary. You're here trying to save your own $@!.

Lets be real here. Everyone can see it. Moo sees its, I see it, and despite the fact you're probably trying to convince yourselves your honorable, deep down you see it as well.

Either way this war goes, you all lose. If karma wins you'll get destroyed, if NPO wins they will eventually seek their rightful vengeance. You're dead either way you look at it.

[NewYinzer]

lol at the part about MK.

Also, I don't think you understand the meaning of "not taking sides". This optimistic speculation is based on very few hard facts and very many arbitrary NS predictions and dates. It is clearly pro-NPO, if someone wanted to they could just as easily make those two scenarios turn out bad for the NPO.

You do realize that if I had ended my first post with, "That is why the NPO must be decisively defeated", I would have 200+ posts from angry Pacificans, right? And at the same time, I would be praised by some Karma members for my motivation.

My original intent was to present a scenario which would be somewhat controversial in order to stimulate discussion. What I got was a few coherent posts, like yours, along with a flood of disapproval, which is to be expected on the internet.

I may have presented some far-reaching predictions that probably won't come true, I admit that. Perhaps my premise was too controversial. Ah well...live and learn, as they say.

[Proxian Empire]

wut r u talkin bout u got it all wrng dis is how it happen///

npo win war nd make kerma look stpid cuz dey r dum nd lose war LOL den npo get 50 billion ns strngth nd kill kerma nd make dem lose war AGEN LOL funni stuf i no but den even bettah da npo merges wit evry1 nd den dey win game nd it is win win jst lik u sed but bettah

[Proxian Empire]

You're here because you have no choice. You're here because you realized after bailing on NPO that Karma was till gonna pick you cowards off, one by one if necessary. You're here trying to save your own $@!.

Lets be real here. Everyone can see it. Moo sees its, I see it, and despite the fact you're probably trying to convince yourselves your honorable, deep down you see it as well.

Either way this war goes, you all lose. If karma wins you'll get destroyed, if NPO wins they will eventually seek their rightful vengeance. You're dead either way you look at it.

Stop making me agree with your posts, you are meant to be that guy I dislike.

[LJ Scott]

August 27, 2009

With reparations paid off, the NPO's total NS has risen to its prewar level of 23 million. Thanks to a comprehensive nation rebuilding program, their NS is on the rise, with a stated goal of 30 million by Christmas 2009.

Dude you owe me a new keyboard )):

This one has sticky keys since I just spat my juice all over it reading this.

[Ogaden]

You do realize that if I had ended my first post with, "That is why the NPO must be decisively defeated", I would have 200+ posts from angry Pacificans, right? And at the same time, I would be praised by some Karma members for my motivation.

My original intent was to present a scenario which would be somewhat controversial in order to stimulate discussion. What I got was a few coherent posts, like yours, along with a flood of disapproval, which is to be expected on the internet.

I may have presented some far-reaching predictions that probably won't come true, I admit that. Perhaps my premise was too controversial. Ah well...live and learn, as they say.

You probably should have phrased it that way, at least then you'd be receiving accolades.

Edited April 23, 2009 by James Dahl

[rsoxbronco1]

I'm not trying to rip on the OP or NPO, but how the hell are they supposed to have 30 mil NS by December?

They'd be hard pressed to get 30 mil without the war.

[Ejayrazz]

Yea mate, this analysis is flawed.

[MagicalTrevor]

About the only thing I can agree with the OP about is the ability of NPO to regrow regardless of whether they win or lose. Love them or hate them, NPO has one of the best banking systems on Bob and I would be amazed if they didn't regrow at a fanatical pace.

I would highly dispute just how good NPOs banking system is, but agree that if the terms are of a similar standard given to say Polars, they'll regrow faster than Polar, but ONLY due to more numbers. It's easier to rebuild at a faster rate with more members, the Avg NS however will be a major stumbling block, especially if this war goes on as long as most people speculate and leaves NPO in ruins.

To the OP, your scenario is a possibility yes, will it happen? I very highly doubt it, although i'll agree with you i can see NPO being up near the top again in the future.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

You said it brother. But what can you expect? I present an opinion many do not like, so I expect a high to very high level of derision. I'm gonna sit back with a big glass of water and see how this discussion unfolds.

You're scenarios rest on a couple flawed assumptions. You're second scenario for example assumes Mushroom Kingdom is fighting with the New Pacific Order... Seriously, where have you been.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54890

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743

Obviously Mushroom Kingdom plans to betray C&G.

PLEASE MK DON'T BETRAY C&G!

IRON is already going to be fighting with Pacifica, it's common knowledge on the boards already, considering the log dump, as well as a couple of others. However, that'll be more then offset by some of our side's declarations update as well (you might even see a surprise or two ). There are also several alliances that you can probably expect to go in on the next couple updates. Karma outweighs the Hegemony: in total nations, nukes, and NS. It's going to be a very tall hill that the Hegemony is going to have to fight on.

Your NS figures and dates are dubious at best, as well. Plus you are ignoring the fact that Pacifica considers the actions of their allies tantamount to betrayal.

[12:31] <Moo-cows> whatever is going on, we aren't in on anythiing

[12:31] <Moo-cows> as far as we are concerned, our allies left us

[12:31] <Moo-cows> and are back because they are afraid of being next

You can also expect some of those on the hegemony's side today to peel of in the aftermath. Many of us have friendships on the other side (unfortunate, but this is what happens every time we have a war of this scale ). Plus there are sphere politics: for example, I for one am hoping for a united blue (again), now that Agora is (unofficially) dead.

You also assume they can "regrow" back to their former NS status in a startlingly short period of time, based on post-GWI. Unlike in GWI, their enemies aren't just going to simply ask for apologies for their actions and leave it at that. And CN mechanics have drastically changed. You can't compare growth that far back ago and use to predict current reconstruction.

Those are some of the glaring problems with your prediction. You've got the gist of what the aims after the war that NPO would hold: vengeance. In the aftermath of a Hegemony victory (as unlikely that is), I doubt the NPO would let themselves come this close to being toppled again, and would no doubt send a few alliances on their Most Hated list (take a stab at who they might be) into disbandment, and keep the rest under punishing terms, as well as seeking vengeance for what they consider (and logs have confirmed it) being left in the lurch by their allies, and then having their leaderships do a 180 in the face of massive public backlash and a negative PR storm. In the aftermath of a Karma victory (which is more likely, in any event), the question for them will be: who to go after first, the victors or their former allies?

EDIT: Also, Crohl is correct on both counts.

By Thor's Banjowoman, I'm agreeing with Crohl.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Tolkien

[Bleh32]

You do realize that if I had ended my first post with, "That is why the NPO must be decisively defeated", I would have 200+ posts from angry Pacificans, right? And at the same time, I would be praised by some Karma members for my motivation.

My original intent was to present a scenario which would be somewhat controversial in order to stimulate discussion. What I got was a few coherent posts, like yours, along with a flood of disapproval, which is to be expected on the internet.

I may have presented some far-reaching predictions that probably won't come true, I admit that. Perhaps my premise was too controversial. Ah well...live and learn, as they say.

If I were you I would not have gone that much into detail, what with all the random dates and NS predictions. There is little to no way we can figure any of that out right now, and the war isn't even in full swing yet.

I think it would've turned out better for you if you had just made your prediction without going into so much detail. I also think, based on the numbers and dates you gave us, that you are either an NPO fanatic or do not understand how the game works.

A flood of angry posters is never fun, but to be honest, you brought this upon yourself. If you think that you would be flamed whether the post was Karma biased or NPO biased, then it may have been best to not post this at all

It's too late for that though, so the best thing to do now is to request a lock as I don't see anything good coming out of this.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Bleh32

[Beauty]

It took 2 years to hit 20m NS, It wont take 6 months to reach 50m NS.

[dejarue]

So the crux of your analysis is that Pacifica will "figure out a way".

How insightful. Now never do this again.

[Drostan]

Horrible read, would never read again. Thanks for telling me what I know.

I hope this gets deleted so my eyes don't bleed again.

Hahaha, this.

You make it sound like it is totally unthinkable that NPO wouldn't end up on top of this game no matter what happens.

[Ogaden]

You're scenarios rest on a couple flawed assumptions. You're second scenario for example assumes Mushroom Kingdom is fighting with the New Pacific Order... Seriously, where have you been.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54890

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743

Obviously Mushroom Kingdom plans to betray C&G.

PLEASE MK DON'T BETRAY C&G!

IRON is already going to be fighting with Pacifica, it's common knowledge on the boards already, considering the log dump, as well as a couple of others. However, that'll be more then offset by some of our side's declarations update as well (you might even see a surprise or two ). There are also several alliances that you can probably expect to go in on the next couple updates. Karma outweighs the Hegemony: in total nations, nukes, and NS. It's going to be a very tall hill that the Hegemony is going to have to fight on.

Your NS figures and dates are dubious at best, as well. Plus you are ignoring the fact that Pacifica considers the actions of their allies tantamount to betrayal.

[12:31] <Moo-cows> whatever is going on, we aren't in on anythiing

[12:31] <Moo-cows> as far as we are concerned, our allies left us

[12:31] <Moo-cows> and are back because they are afraid of being next

You can also expect some of those on the hegemony's side today to peel of in the aftermath. Many of us have friendships on the other side (unfortunate, but this is what happens every time we have a war of this scale ). Plus there are sphere politics: for example, I for one am hoping for a united blue (again), now that Agora is (unofficially) dead.

You also assume they can "regrow" back to their former NS status in a startlingly short period of time, based on post-GWI. Unlike in GWI, their enemies aren't just going to simply ask for apologies for their actions and leave it at that. And CN mechanics have drastically changed. You can't compare growth that far back ago and use to predict current reconstruction.

Those are some of the glaring problems with your prediction. You've got the gist of what the aims after the war that NPO would hold: vengeance. In the aftermath of a Hegemony victory (as unlikely that is), I doubt the NPO would let themselves come this close to being toppled again, and would no doubt send a few alliances on their Most Hated list (take a stab at who they might be) into disbandment, and keep the rest under punishing terms, as well as seeking vengeance for what they consider (and logs have confirmed it) being left in the lurch by their allies, and then having their leaderships do a 180 in the face of massive public backlash and a negative PR storm. In the aftermath of a Karma victory (which is more likely, in any event), the question for them will be: who to go after first, the victors or their former allies?

EDIT: Also, Crohl is correct on both counts.

By Thor's Banjowoman, I'm agreeing with Crohl.

I'm not convinced, it all depends on the terms you guys end up slamming us with, and how much humiliation you subject us to with said terms.

To be honest I just don't see us as an alliance as the vindictive type.

Edited April 24, 2009 by James Dahl

[JayOvfEnnay]

Although it wasn't a bad read, it's a biased one. A long shot at best.

You see, Karma are far better fighters than the majority of alliances on NPO's side. NPO would need atleast a statistical tie in order to have a shot at victory. Besides that, NPO is honestly not so great at alliance building. They would never make it back to 24mil NS in such a quick time, and the war will last far longer with NPO going far lower.

All in all, it's more of a win-lose for NPO. If they win this war, then almost all opposition is eliminated or severely weakened. Plain and simple. More likely they lose this war and they lose much influence, their debatable war record, a lot of p1xulz, and quite a few treatypartners in the future. NPO will be nearly isolated and far lower in NS, disabling both chances are being part of the hegemony once more, for a very long time.

So by all means, I'd say they need to win this war, it seems.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

I'm not convinced, it all depends on the terms you guys end up slamming us with.

To be honest I just don't see us as an alliance as the vindictive type.

It doesn't, really. Rebuilding still takes a helluva long time, and it took the NPO years to break 20 million. Also: the terms won't be another "just post an official apology" from back in GWI. They are going to be real terms: not as harsh as what the NPO has lain down by FAR, but real terms, nonetheless.

You obviously don't know your history. See: the Great War saga. See: LUE and NAAC. See: GATO. See: FAN. See: IAA. See: GOLD.

I could go on and on you know. I still remember the terms that you gave the NAAC in GWIII: 350 million (an unprecedented amount back then) and a move to pink.

EDIT:

Jay: Ah. I completely forgot about mentioning that the war will be far longer then being up to May 15th. Both sides have prepared for the long run (i.e. peace mode and keeping a very large reserve).

Edited April 24, 2009 by Tolkien

[Random]

Then Karma ends up being extremely hypocritical, as they've already said they weren't interested in perpetual war.

If it meant the NPO would disappear from Bob forever then I wouldn't mind being a hypocrite.

I'm a bit impatient with this game so I'm bringing it to them a bit sooner. Hello TPF and Valhalla! Cowards will get no reprieve. You're all going to pay for your cowardice. I'm done here.

To be honest I half expect both alliances to disband before the end of this war.

Stop making me agree with your posts, you are meant to be that guy I dislike.

This.

[Lord of Destruction]

NPO would need atleast a statistical tie in order to have a shot at victory.

Our (Pacifica's) side is going to have a statistical lead at update. Electron Sponge says so.

If it meant the NPO would disappear from Bob forever then I wouldn't mind being a hypocrite.

I have two things to say to you then:

1. I'm glad you won't be in a position to dictate terms should Pacifica lose this war.

2. Even if the Order lost, Pacifica would never disappear from Planet Bob.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Lord of Destruction

[Shodemofi-NPO]

How true. Though I would not consider our defeat possible, if it were to happen, that is very much how events would go.

Oh, don't forget to add that those that have harmed Pacifica will get theirs too.

Yes, and then hell will freeze over, don't forget to add that too. And for real this time, not just the NPO claiming it has so they weren't liars when it came to canceling the OoO.

[Lord Brendan]

Our (Pacifica's) side is going to have a statistical lead at update. Electron Sponge says so.

All I see is him saying IRON will declare at update.