One tC Leader's Account of the War

[Heft]

Most of the mass of people raging against the NPO and the "hegemony" have no real idea of what they're talking about. This has and will always be true. The Continuum has made mistakes, and letting this war happen in the way it did and generally being so outplayed in the "end" is definitely right up there. All of us who were involved in it at some point or another have some responsibility for allowing too-draconian things to happen from time to time. But to pretend that the NPO is the absolute worst evil ever is ignorant. We killed GOONS and chose to support NPO for a reason. I have absolutely no doubt that there are people in this opposition coalition who, if they ever manage to get near the level of power and influence the NPO has held for so long, will be worse.

The mass cancelation, regardless of whatever the intent was, was a terrible mistake in more ways than one, none of which really need to be rehashed here. Your intent was reasonable and all of that, and I can certainly believe your motivations were sound, but the way you handled it completely screwed all of you over.

[BOOSHIFIED]

I generally avoid the world forums due to the negativity that is in every single thread.

I am posting here to say this.

Anu did the OP in order to explain some of his actions and to let people know he was moving on. You may not agree with everything he has done and he even said he made mistakes. In the end it is only a game and RL trumps all.

o/ ANU

[Slayer99]

Why are people quitting over this?

You gave props to Vox. You gave us credit for moving the community. We did that with nothing. It would be interesting for Q to come out of this war as a defeated bloc trying to rebuild, like League out of GWII.

Ah well.

I'm sure Anu, like many, stuck around for the big war. Other leaders will rise and things will change....and Vox can go after the new big bloc (that's if you're mission statement doesn't change and you're still having fun playing the role of spoiler).

Edited April 23, 2009 by Slayer99

[Joe Kremlin]

TOP and MHA didn't leave the Continuum before the war? TOP posted their announcement before NPO's DoW and before anyone declared on NPO. MHA withdrew the day before.

It had nothing to do with any upcoming war.

[Earogema]

Most of the mass of people raging against the NPO and the "hegemony" have no real idea of what they're talking about. This has and will always be true. The Continuum has made mistakes, and letting this war happen in the way it did and generally being so outplayed in the "end" is definitely right up there. All of us who were involved in it at some point or another have some responsibility for allowing too-draconian things to happen from time to time. But to pretend that the NPO is the absolute worst evil ever is ignorant. We killed GOONS and chose to support NPO for a reason. I have absolutely no doubt that there are people in this opposition coalition who, if they ever manage to get near the level of power and influence the NPO has held for so long, will be worse.

The mass cancelation, regardless of whatever the intent was, was a terrible mistake in more ways than one, none of which really need to be rehashed here. Your intent was reasonable and all of that, and I can certainly believe your motivations were sound, but the way you handled it completely screwed all of you over.

But then Polar was killed because they killed GOONS.

People need to get their story straight.

[Heft]

But then Polar was killed because they killed GOONS.

People need to get their story straight.

It helps if you don't take pieces of one person's story and then paste them onto another's. My story has never changed.

[Chimaera]

Anu Drake, we've been on opposite sides of the fence for a long time, but you're an exemplary member and leader, and I'd ask you to reconsider your decision. CN's been losing too many greats.

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

The war is fine, you're taking on the dominant powers and that is what it is all about. But stop with this BS of Pacifica and Continuum evil. Yes, it whips up the crowds, but in the end what does it do to the community? If the powers that be are taken down, what kind of negativity will replace it?

When the hegemonic domination crumbles, what will be will be. If you're suggesting that NPO and their allies are a pillar of justice, when this Coalition of Cowards backs out when needed most, when allies defend one another when it seems opportune, when the New Pacific Order prods nothingness until it breaks into war, then I feel gravely sorry for you, because I'm afraid you're about to meet a sad and cruel reality.

[Brotherington]

Really? It's just a game.

Not a game with an overall friendly atmosphere or community, people treat each other and other groups like !@#$ and it can breed genuine dislike. Maybe to say I hate people is a little strong (lol), but I really don't see any need to separate my feelings into OOC and IC. If I actually met players from this game face to face I admit my behavious towards them would be entirely different to my behaviour on these forums.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

It's always sad when a long-standing active member of the community such as yourself leaves Anu, but I do agree with the other posters that playing the victim card on the way out is a little old.

[Delta1212]

We killed GOONS and chose to support NPO for a reason. I have absolutely no doubt that there are people in this opposition coalition who, if they ever manage to get near the level of power and influence the NPO has held for so long, will be worse.

This is almost certainly true. I've told Dilber a number of times the NPO isn't the worst possible candidate for hegemon in the game and I meant it. I can think of a lot of alliances who would be far worse. (Though I suspect some of my opinions on that matter could easily be born out of ignorance as I know several other people's are with regard to different alliances). However, the worse you are, the less time you last. There will be a dominant power in pretty much every political scenario except a Cold War, but that doesn't mean there has to be a hegemonic power on the scale we've had this past year, either. I don't think many alliances outside of Pacifica actually have the skill to build that, and once this war is over, even if the hegemony managed to pull out a victory, that's going to be very difficult for them in the immediate future. This was a major stumble.

And no, the Continuum alliances aren't all demon hellspawn. That said, it wasn't a particularly amazing situation that they put the rest of us in. Things will change. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, maybe not all that much. But if you don't act to change a situation you don't like for fear it will get worse, it won't get better either. And I have no doubt if it does get worse, there'll be another uprising. It's how the game works because that's how people work. For now, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy events as they roll out. I don't know if I've ever been this entertained by CN before. For me, that makes it worth every bit of this all by itself.

And good luck to all you evil, dirty hegemons.

[Heft]

Not a game with an overall friendly atmosphere or community, people treat each other and other groups like !@#$ and it can breed genuine dislike. Maybe to say I hate people is a little strong (lol), but I really don't see any need to separate my feelings into OOC and IC. If I actually met players from this game face to face I admit my behavious towards them would be entirely different to my behaviour on these forums.

If you cannot separate your dislike for certain people from in-game and out-of-game, then that's really sad and probably unhealthy. Trust me, things are much more enjoyable if you don't offense to things done in-game on an out-of-game level. It really gets to be too much if you don't bother making a distinction there. Most people playing this game are really decent people, regardless of how they act in the game. People not being able to understand things like that and people getting personally offended at things that happen in a game are a large part of the reason this community is so distasteful and vitriolic.

[Heft]

This is almost certainly true. I've told Dilber a number of times the NPO isn't the worst possible candidate for hegemon in the game and I meant it. I can think of a lot of alliances who would be far worse. (Though I suspect some of my opinions on that matter could easily be born out of ignorance as I know several other people's are with regard to different alliances). However, the worse you are, the less time you last. There will be a dominant power in pretty much every political scenario except a Cold War, but that doesn't mean there has to be a hegemonic power on the scale we've had this past year, either. I don't think many alliances outside of Pacifica actually have the skill to build that, and once this war is over, even if the hegemony managed to pull out a victory, that's going to be very difficult for them in the immediate future. This was a major stumble.

And no, the Continuum alliances aren't all demon hellspawn. That said, it wasn't a particularly amazing situation that they put the rest of us in. Things will change. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, maybe not all that much. But if you don't act to change a situation you don't like for fear it will get worse, it won't get better either. And I have no doubt if it does get worse, there'll be another uprising. It's how the game works because that's how people work. For now, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy events as they roll out. I don't know if I've ever been this entertained by CN before. For me, that makes it worth every bit of this all by itself.

And good luck to all you evil, dirty hegemons.

I don't suspect that those who would be worse than NPO will have the skill or be allowed to take that position, and I suspect that there will be plenty of competition for awhile before such a strong force emerges (though I could be wrong and someone could just go make another massive bloc). The criticism is more that most of the people who are criticizing NPO and the hegemony for their perceived actions have never been in that position and, if they were in that position, would almost certainly be no better. Thus, it's quite frustrating to see them act like the last year has been some hellish draconian nightmare.

I'm not criticizing those in the opposition for taking action, it's entirely reasonable and sensible. And they played it well, while the Continuum made mistakes along the way, and the opposition has earned this victory (whether you win the war or not, you've already weakened the powers-that-be substantially). But, well, let's not forget that IRON's single largest motivation for entering the political scene in the first place was to avoid GOONS and then, in short order, to remove them. I know what it's like to be outside the power bloc of the day, and to log in every day half-expecting someone to have decided to run you over just because. I also know what it's like to suddenly be in a position of seemingly untouchable power and influence, and how easy and tempting it is to get tired of trying to be diplomatic with some stupid !@#$%^& and just roll them for being a dip!@#$. Personally, I think most of us handled it much better than a lot of the people who are no doubt eyeing this looming power vacuum with ambition and hunger would.

[Earogema]

It helps if you don't take pieces of one person's story and then paste them onto another's. My story has never changed.

You accepted that person's story as your own.

[Delta1212]

If you cannot separate your dislike for certain people from in-game and out-of-game, then that's really sad and probably unhealthy. Trust me, things are much more enjoyable if you don't offense to things done in-game on an out-of-game level. It really gets to be too much if you don't bother making a distinction there. Most people playing this game are really decent people, regardless of how they act in the game. People not being able to understand things like that and people getting personally offended at things that happen in a game are a large part of the reason this community is so distasteful and vitriolic.

This is actually part of the reason I have my private channel built the way I do. I like having people from opposing sides because it helps keep some of the personal demonization down for everyone when we can sit and chat out of character. And I don't just mean for this conflict, I mean in general. I think a third of the channel was on the BLEU side of the last war. This war... well, very early in #peacetalks before they kicked off when only six of us were in the room, I was laughing because the OV rep was the only non-cupcakery member in the channel. After the mass cancellation, Xiphosis cracked that "You know things are bad when the enemy is the one consoling you" because we were all trying to reassure Dilber and Moo that things weren't all that bad. It's fine to have enemies in the game. but it's more fun if you're friends with them in an out of game context. (I'm looking at you right now, woody).

[Vilien]

I've never had a chance to know you, and while I often criticize the decisions of your half of the world, you seem like a good player. It never benefits the community to have one of its members leave. I hope you stay with us, but if you don't, good luck out there.

[Mongrel]

Interesting and insightful read, Anu. I'm sure you have to realize that regardless of the message of your individual cancellations on NPO it would be lost due to the current political climate, however I think historically it will be seen as a very influential event. Though I personally disagree with some of your commentary on this war, it's not relevant to argue it here, and it's probably impossible for anyone on either side to be objective.

I'll echo the words of Azaghul ... losing isn't so bad, in fact for me it was one of the greatest months in my time here.

Best of luck.

[Delta1212]

I don't suspect that those who would be worse than NPO will have the skill or be allowed to take that position, and I suspect that there will be plenty of competition for awhile before such a strong force emerges (though I could be wrong and someone could just go make another massive bloc). The criticism is more that most of the people who are criticizing NPO and the hegemony for their perceived actions have never been in that position and, if they were in that position, would almost certainly be no better. Thus, it's quite frustrating to see them act like the last year has been some hellish draconian nightmare.

I'm not criticizing those in the opposition for taking action, it's entirely reasonable and sensible. And they played it well, while the Continuum made mistakes along the way, and the opposition has earned this victory (whether you win the war or not, you've already weakened the powers-that-be substantially). But, well, let's not forget that IRON's single largest motivation for entering the political scene in the first place was to avoid GOONS and then, in short order, to remove them. I know what it's like to be outside the power bloc of the day, and to log in every day half-expecting someone to have decided to run you over just because. I also know what it's like to suddenly be in a position of seemingly untouchable power and influence, and how easy and tempting it is to get tired of trying to be diplomatic with some stupid !@#$%^& and just roll them for being a dip!@#$. Personally, I think most of us handled it much better than a lot of the people who are no doubt eyeing this looming power vacuum with ambition and hunger would.

I think most of the vitrol being thrown at the Continuum is from people who've felt personally wronged by them. Continuum may not have done it particularly often considering the number of people they interacted with and the scale of time they were around for, but they were around for a very long time and they did interact with a lot of people and they managed to upset a lot of them at one time or another. I know I have my own personal grudge to bare. Of course, it's something that I'm not happy about OOC, but I'd only go so far as to call it a grudge in-character. Some people, I think, especially the ones who feel they have far worse grievances than I do, have difficulty making that distinction just because so many players take things personally in this game. And when it comes to your alliance's or allies' well-being, it can be hard not to considering the relationships that exist for most of those.

Not that this excuses any of the people that take things too far in an OOC context of course, but the hate isn't unfounded so much as taken much too far in those cases. I also think that being on the receiving end of that impatience and somewhat wrathful treatment gives people at least a little bit of perspective, and I don't think a lot of the Continuum leadership has ever been placed in that position to the degree they sometimes placed many of the people on the Karma side of things. So while a lot of people may be crying for blood probably mean it, I think, or at least hope, especially on the leadership level, that in the future (and I hope even in the context of this war) that the memory of that stays people's hands at least a little more often than it would for someone that hasn't experienced it themselves. I don't expect anyone to be perfect in that regard. It would be foolish to do so. I just think it has the potential to be an improvement. Losing is a humbling experience and lord knows we've lost plenty of times in the past. I think GWI would have been a better experience for NPO had the CoaLUEtion not flopped at peace talks, because I don't think NPO ever truly got to feel what it was like to be at someone else's mercy except for maybe a slight taste that just bred the behavior they developed to avoid it at all costs in the future.

[Vilien]

Post.

I'd definitely say that I agree with most of the things said in this post.

Honestly, a lot of the talk going on right now is based on a assumption of Pacifica's defeat. As has been said, being on the losing side certainly isn't easy. Even if Pacifica does come out of this severely damaged, it's far from over. If history shows us anything, it's highly likely that the NPO will be able to gain some valuable experience from this. I fully expect Pacifica's remaining membership to be revitalized and ready to work to bring the alliance back into a position of power. A defeat is not always crippling. Occasionally you need to be tested, so that you may come back stronger. Even if the NPO is damaged horribly in this war, I cannot see it vanishing from CN. An alliance that has had such an impact on the community will certainly restructure, rebuild, and return. And it is my sincere hope that it does.

[Heft]

You accepted that person's story as your own.

I have never once expressed regret at what I did or helped do in the UJW. I have on occasion supported the view that certain parties were also using that conflict to isolate the NPO, though generally not to the extent that you are assuming. That the war was correct, and that others used the war for other ends, are not mutually exclusive. And at this point I'm not even saying they were necessarily wrong for doing so, just that yes it probably did happen.

Anyway, Anu, it will be sad to see you leaving, if that is what you choose to do. I'm sure NATO could use your experience in the coming days and weeks.

[Big Z]

Those logs you refer to was a counter intelligence operation, one that we informed the interested parties while it was happening real time, since it was fairly obvious Bud was fishing for information by using his ooc friendship with Xiphosis. For the rest of the IC spin, I'll let my colleague in Delta1212 address it as he is far more adept than I am in that regard.

As for the ooc parts, on an ooc level, I wish you the best of luck Anu. More players leaving is always a bad thing, regardless of the IC status as a foe or an ally.

Edited because Cupcake preferred adept to apt

Edited April 23, 2009 by Big Z

[Delta1212]

Those logs you refer to was a counter intelligence operation, one that we informed the interested parties while it was happening real time, since it was fairly obvious Bud was fishing for information by using his ooc friendship with Xiphosis. For the rest of the IC spin, I'll let my colleague in Delta1212 address it as he is far more adept than I am in that regard.

As for the ooc parts, on an ooc level, I wish you the best of luck Anu. More players leaving is always a bad thing, regardless of the IC status as a foe or an ally.

Edited because Cupcake preferred adept to apt

I hate you so much.

[Xiphosis]

Most of us have seen the logs about one of the key members of Karma's wishes of going after Gramlins when Continuum is destroyed.

Bud, though a friend, is a member of Valhalla and I fully expected the logs to leak. I actually contacted Gremlins gov and let them know I was going to be dropping some misinformation.

Nice try though.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Xiphosis

[Deadshot]

I think most of the vitrol being thrown at the Continuum is from people who've felt personally wronged by them. Continuum may not have done it particularly often considering the number of people they interacted with and the scale of time they were around for, but they were around for a very long time and they did interact with a lot of people and they managed to upset a lot of them at one time or another. I know I have my own personal grudge to bare. Of course, it's something that I'm not happy about OOC, but I'd only go so far as to call it a grudge in-character. Some people, I think, especially the ones who feel they have far worse grievances than I do, have difficulty making that distinction just because so many players take things personally in this game. And when it comes to your alliance's or allies' well-being, it can be hard not to considering the relationships that exist for most of those.

Not that this excuses any of the people that take things too far in an OOC context of course, but the hate isn't unfounded so much as taken much too far in those cases. I also think that being on the receiving end of that impatience and somewhat wrathful treatment gives people at least a little bit of perspective, and I don't think a lot of the Continuum leadership has ever been placed in that position to the degree they sometimes placed many of the people on the Karma side of things. So while a lot of people may be crying for blood probably mean it, I think, or at least hope, especially on the leadership level, that in the future (and I hope even in the context of this war) that the memory of that stays people's hands at least a little more often than it would for someone that hasn't experienced it themselves. I don't expect anyone to be perfect in that regard. It would be foolish to do so. I just think it has the potential to be an improvement. Losing is a humbling experience and lord knows we've lost plenty of times in the past. I think GWI would have been a better experience for NPO had the CoaLUEtion not flopped at peace talks, because I don't think NPO ever truly got to feel what it was like to be at someone else's mercy except for maybe a slight taste that just bred the behavior they developed to avoid it at all costs in the future.

IC or OOC, whichever you prefer: You will get your chance, as I have also told Balder and Kevin McDonald. Thats all I have to say about it in this thread, unless you wish to have a chat with me. My apologies if this is not what you were referring to, but I am certain it is.

On Topic and OOC:

i think everyone needs to get the story straight. So far in this thread I have seen Q being accused of being too powerful and curbstomping threats and also of breaking the war function by making people afraid to speak, that tC made the game not fair, ruined the community, etc. Ladies and gentlemen, need I remind you that this is a game. What is the purpose of a game? To have fun yes, but also to be the winner, the most powerful etc. If this game was about holding hands and rainbows, it wouldn't have a war function. From my time being here, tC has been a dominate power. Regardless of the tactics, we are playing a game. I for one don't like to put in DOOM and throw in god mode so I can breeze through it. I like a challenge. I'm sure you all do as well. Have I had fun for the past year? Yes. And I am having fun now. I can also say I will have fun in the future no matter what happens. Because again, it is a game. If you are really that pissed about being dominated for so long, then you should have changed it sooner. Fact is, you didn't. Here I see the same in game characters that were boohooing over Polaris, lashing out on the opposition that exhibits the same behavior now. Relax guys, grab a drink and have fun. It can't rain all the time you know.

That being said, and with the sentiment that we play games to have fun and challenge ourselves, it should also be evident that the climate it cyclical. Regardless the outcome, another group will be dominate in size and strength. Give it time and the players will be bored again, and the cycle will complete itself. This is the way things work. Nothing in this world or in real life is infinite or invincible. Empires flourish, empires fall. Time goes on. Life goes on. I for one wish the opposition luck. I am having the time of my life this week, not boohooing because I may or may not be in a supreme power tomorrow, not because this isn't fair, or any of the other reasons thrown around. I am having fun because this is a function of the game I like, whether I am good at it or not. Leave your OOC hatred at the door please and enjoy it while you can.

One more thing. Anu has stated to me that he was leaving before this war broke out. Those of you that don't know Anu are the ones that are saying it's because of the war. Grow up guys. RL is far more important than a pixeled game over the internet. If this game is your life, then you need to put down the keyboard and grab a football or something.

o/ both sides for the fun we are having this week.

o/ Anu. God loves you as he loved Jacob.

[Doitzel]

The lesser of two evils is still evil. NPO has chased a vast number of people away, many of whom are now returning to watch them get their comeuppance. NPO stifled the atmosphere on these boards with their tough-guy antics and their "treaty everyone!" foreign policy. I'm glad to see that foreign policy coming back to haunt them because I argued vehemently against it even in NPO (which is why Philosopher and I never got along).

The fact that you have confessed Vox's role in this is vindicating. We did what we did with absolutely nothing and had the biggest bully on the block refusing to steal peoples' lunch money. After what you have done to so many people in this game I find it absolutely comical that you're now rolling over and crying foul, trying to paint yourselves as the victims of some great plot. You threw your lot in with the NPO hoping to get some scraps from the master's table and now you're getting burned for it.

And what do you do? You complain. You try to pin it to NPO, you try to cast blame in every direction but on yourself. That's absolutely pathetic, especially given they character assassination you and your "friends" have been attempting on myself and Electron Sponge.

Judge a man not by how he treats his equals but by how he treats his inferiors.

Good luck in RL, if indeed you are leaving. Maybe you've learned something in your time here.