EliteGeneral Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Bottom Line: PC thinks they are too cool, that they can fight a war without honoring a treaty because they are too arrogant to realize they still have to pay consequences. 2nd Bottom Line: No one should make any treaty with PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter26 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 There was never any "spirit" in this treaty. A Non Aggression Pact I believe explains what it is designed to prevent. You have chosen to break it- if they were not "real" relations with TPF than why did you not cancel this treaty ages ago? Why even sign it to begin with? Once again, the problem is that KARMA insists that they a morally right and the other side is wrong. Admit you are no better and then go on killing each other. The arguments used KARMA states are doing the right thing is utter nonsense- this is proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Bottom Line: PC thinks they are too cool, that they can fight a war without honoring a treaty because they are too arrogant to realize they still have to pay consequences. 2nd Bottom Line: No one should make any treaty with PC. Some in Karma are better than this. Some however are like what you said. Lets see who is in majority when all is said and done, will they be worse than what they claim to fight or better. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrik Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Bottom Line: PC thinks they are too cool, that they can fight a war without honoring a treaty because they are too arrogant to realize they still have to pay consequences. 2nd Bottom Line: No one should make any treaty with PC. Incorrect. Any treaty made with a willing PC will be honored to the last. Our treaties with Umb/FOK/RAD/TCB/DT/Protectorates are all treaties we would get ourselves ZI'd for. Until TPF got all our allies to drop us, we would have done the same for RoK/Val/MA. The difference is how those treaties were signed. All of those mentioned above were talked about extensively ahead of time and agreed upon by all of the membership. When we first organized into an alliance, we had decided that treaties below MDP (ODP/PIAT/NAP) would never be signed because we viewed them as worthless. If you are friends with someone, you'll die defending them. Anything weaker than mandatory defense doesn't show friendship or trust. This one exception was made so that we could get our old groove back and raid again. We weren't raiding because TPF would have rolled us (not alone, mind you, they would have activated treaties to do so). This NAP was signed without the membership's consent in order to protect the alliance as a whole. I agree that PC cannot be counted to honor treaties that we don't have much choice in signing, but I would say our current and future allies have nothing to worry about. And yes, we are too damn cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer99 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 We aren't the one that made this topic. We are just going about our business.There was never any "spirit" in this treaty. Grats on our pixels? We are throwing them out the door taking three TPF nations each and three Valhallans or Zenith members each. We never "switched sides" - we were always rolling with our real allies, FOK, Umbrella, RAD, TCB, and Dark Templar. Come up with a better argument. I like the voices of reason in JBone, OneBallMan and DC. Let's enjoy this war. May the best men win. Slayer, I should be in your range after this round. Be sure to get a slot. I'd love for everyone to settle old scores this war. I'll see what I can do to arrange the dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Incorrect. Any treaty made with a willing PC will be honored to the last. Our treaties with Umb/FOK/RAD/TCB/DT/Protectorates are all treaties we would get ourselves ZI'd for. Until TPF got all our allies to drop us, we would have done the same for RoK/Val/MA.The difference is how those treaties were signed. All of those mentioned above were talked about extensively ahead of time and agreed upon by all of the membership. When we first organized into an alliance, we had decided that treaties below MDP (ODP/PIAT/NAP) would never be signed because we viewed them as worthless. If you are friends with someone, you'll die defending them. Anything weaker than mandatory defense doesn't show friendship or trust. This one exception was made so that we could get our old groove back and raid again. We weren't raiding because TPF would have rolled us (not alone, mind you, they would have activated treaties to do so). This NAP was signed without the membership's consent in order to protect the alliance as a whole. I agree that PC cannot be counted to honor treaties that we don't have much choice in signing, but I would say our current and future allies have nothing to worry about. And yes, we are too damn cool. Basically you guys have lied to me in every meeting for the sole purpose attacking us. There was no interest in peace from you guys at all. That is fine but I find it ironic you guys claim to be "karma". It is tpf that has made every attempt at reconciliation and respect, while you guys pride yourselves at how well you crossed your fingers behind your backs as you lied to the barer of the olive branch. Karma indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Sriv Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 If it was my alliance PC nullified the NAP with, I would be kicking myself for wording it so crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 If it was my alliance PC nullified the NAP with, I would be kicking myself for wording it so crappy. The guy that wrote has been kicking himself and apologizing. It was an understandable mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leatherneck Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) The guy that wrote has been kicking himself and apologizing. It was an understandable mistake. Signed,For The Phoenix Federation, mhawk - Hard Six Roller That's a funny way to look at leadership there Mhawk, blaming your underlings when I only see your signature affirming the NAP. Seems to me no one should be kicking themselves but you.... Edited April 25, 2009 by leatherneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedRebelDB47 Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Keep things civil. There is no need for this, and it proves you cannot stand on your own without your stories. You obviously don't know who Astronaut Jones is. You also should really read up on the history of your alliance. Not the Mhawk/Slayer tl;dr version, I mean the real one from former membership and former allies left out to die. I respect your faith in your alliance, but don't let the words of a known liar in Slayer blind you. I think everyone is better than that. Those who realized it left following April 12, 2008. A Non Aggression Pact I believe explains what it is designed to prevent. You have chosen to break it- if they were not "real" relations with TPF than why did you not cancel this treaty ages ago? Why even sign it to begin with?Once again, the problem is that KARMA insists that they a morally right and the other side is wrong. Admit you are no better and then go on killing each other. The arguments used KARMA states are doing the right thing is utter nonsense- this is proof. We signed a BS treaty to get us off of BS terms for BS charges against us. Only the naive could believe this "treaty" meant something. Hell, even Mhawk acknowledged this. Would you like me to pull out the logs? Basically you guys have lied to me in every meeting for the sole purpose attacking us. There was no interest in peace from you guys at all. That is fine but I find it ironic you guys claim to be "karma". It is tpf that has made every attempt at reconciliation and respect, while you guys pride yourselves at how well you crossed your fingers behind your backs as you lied to the barer of the olive branch. Karma indeed. We never claimed to be anyone other than Poison Clan. We were Poison Clan, we are Poison Clan, and I'll be Poison Clan no matter what happens during or after this war, no matter where I go. This is family. You don't $%&@ with it. We honor our treaties to a fault - never have we backed out of a treaty that actually meant something. Ask Slayer if we ever sat out of our responsibilities as fighters while TPF members, or a TPF protectorate. Ask GGA, RoK, MA or Valhalla if we ever shirked our responsibilities as allies before a war. Now ask Dark Templar, RAD, Umbrella, FOK and TCB. Hell, Chefjoe even started this fight with a reminder that there was still strong mutual respect between our alliances. Go ask him yourself. If you are our friend, we will be yours. If you want to be enemies, we aren't afraid to dance. Want to pull up last November? Sure. Ain't afraid to take a knee today to deliver the uppercut later. We aren't as dumb as you think, Slayer. [22:52] <Slayer99[TPF]> but Green and CTB think they're smarter than I am Keep trying, Slayer, keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MudBug Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 That's a funny way to look at leadership there Mhawk, blaming your underlings when I only see your signature affirming the NAP. Seems to me no one should be kicking themselves but you.... He was talking about himself. Reading comprehension for the win.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 If you are our friend, we will be yours. If you want to be enemies, we aren't afraid to dance. Want to pull up last November? Sure. Ain't afraid to take a knee today to deliver the uppercut later. We aren't as dumb as you think, Slayer.[22:52] <Slayer99[TPF]> but Green and CTB think they're smarter than I am I lol'd at this, since the biggest problem is that yall do seem to believe that we are dumb. That is your downfall, is you believe your own intelligance is so much greater that you don't have to worry. Maybe it is time to worry........ :jihad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseyWales Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 The guy that wrote has been kicking himself and apologizing. It was an understandable mistake. You signed and presented it to us. Kick yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogenes Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I lol'd at this, since the biggest problem is that yall do seem to believe that we are dumb. That is your downfall, is you believe your own intelligance is so much greater that you don't have to worry.Maybe it is time to worry........ :jihad: ...or maybe it's not, because at the moment they're ripping your alliance to pieces. The worst you can do at this point is bleed all over them on your way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinatownbus Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I lol'd at this, since the biggest problem is that yall do seem to believe that we are dumb. That is your downfall, is you believe your own intelligance is so much greater that you don't have to worry.Maybe it is time to worry........ :jihad: I don't believe that mhawk is dumb, nor that Slayer is dumb. In fact I am fairly certain that most people in TPF are quite bright. You are the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I lol'd at this, since the biggest problem is that yall do seem to believe that we are dumb. That is your downfall, is you believe your own intelligance is so much greater that you don't have to worry.Maybe it is time to worry........ :jihad: I think those nukes they sleep on take away any worry they may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooksland Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I lol'd at this, since the biggest problem is that yall do seem to believe that we are dumb. That is your downfall, is you believe your own intelligance is so much greater that you don't have to worry.Maybe it is time to worry........ :jihad: I am sorry, but I cannot worry when I have other things on my mind (like being hungry). The Pookie Hungers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leatherneck Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 He was talking about himself. Reading comprehension for the win.......... Not what he said here.....reading comprehension indeed MudBug. The answer is our dmofa apparently wasn't clear enough the intent in his first treaty. However I feel the wording on it is clear, if you attack you're breaking the treaty. Of course it is rather semantics given the recourse for breaking a treaty is war? I was mostly just curious enough given my many talks with pc gov regarding if they wanted to go to war lets just cancel the thing the right way and be on an honest footing. To those questions I was always told CTB had every wish to work out a different relationship with PC/TPF. Twisted was at least always honest in his one tracked mind at revenge for slayer telling him to shutup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yubyubsan Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 All I have to say is that TPF and PC deserve each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustakrakish II Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 I never thought id see the day that NAPs mattered this much. Most alliances don't even sign those anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leatherneck Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 He was talking about himself. Reading comprehension for the win.......... Mudbug, did all that reading tucker you out so much that you couldn't respond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leatherneck Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 must have har har har. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 spam and a gravedig? double whammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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