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Imperial Decree from VE


Doofy

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This conversation took place minutes ago.

This is clearly a PR stunt. Congratulations, you "played" one of our members and offered him free info. This is akin to a sting operation.

The Emperor and Government of the New Pacific Order has received no logs from this person, or any person within VE, and if offered them, we would refuse.

[00:00] <Moo-Cows> you know as well as I that every alliance accepts information

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You never answered my question. If you hate spies so much, why do you keep ColPanic as a member? After all, he was the one responsible for us receiving screens of your forums, which you say is an unforgivable offense and threat to your alliance security and all that B.S. Your hypocrisy smells like fear.

You're trying to distract the issue at present from the ridiculous PR stunt just attempted, but I am kind, and I shall indulge you:

The NPO is forgiving.

As has been our policy for eons upon eons, despite what the anti-NPO trolls, from the ADN to CATO to ODN to GATO to LUE to Vox to Blackstone from years upon years to the present: we are a forgiving people. If people want to get off our ZI list, they need but ask and our Emperor generally does so.

So, my friend, which way would you like it? Would you like us to be the "ebil" NPO that never forgives and keeps a ZI list of hundreds of members? Or would you like us to be forgiving to those who have wronged us and keep our ZI list as it is at present, with very, very few people on it.

Is it hypocritical for hypocrisy to smell like fear? Or is hypocrisy supposed to smell like fear? Is that a paradox? Your metaphysical points fascinate me.

I smell likes a mixture of rose potpourri and earl grey double bergamot. Is that what fear smells like?

Edited by Cortath
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Since when is this new? The NPO has used logs from private channels as a reason for war before. I don't understand the outrage now (course if might have to do with rising tensions) when it wasn't around before. I don't condone spying, but I think its well known both sides will at the very least accept information from a third party, they have both demonstrated this.

edit so I am clear: This is not news.

Edited by Wootmeister
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I think this is a brilliant sting operation.

It highlights the point made on the action of all alliances in relation to the recieving of intel, by Moos. By showing how Moos own alliance entertains, and accepted the information. (you can't deny that, because you need to say no before the link it even shown).

Since this point was highlighted, it blatantly shows the problems with the tardy DoW's we've seen in the last 24 hours.

I do like the poetry in this thread, Schill's well regarded weakness, became his strongest assest in this task. Because no one else would of tried, in the belief that any NPO member politically aware enough, would accept information like that at this point.....

.... Unless of course its the standard practice of all CN alliances? :P

"Moos own alliance [sic]" did not accept information. One member fell prey to a sting operation. One member does not "Moos own alliance [sic]" make.

Some of our members don't eat babies (silly vegetarians), but our alliance eats babies. See how that works?

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This conversation took place minutes ago.

This is clearly a PR stunt. Congratulations, you "played" one of our members and offered him free info. This is akin to a sting operation.

The Emperor and Government of the New Pacific Order has received no logs from this person, or any person within VE, and if offered them, we would refuse.

Not according to Moo...

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Since when is this new? The NPO has used logs from private channels as a reason for war before. I don't understand the outrage now (course if might have to do with rising tensions) when it wasn't around before. I don't condone spying, but I think its well known both sides will at the very least accept information from a third party, they have both demonstrated this, the NPO not for the first time.

Since when haven't people !@#$%*ed about CB's?

The outrage has to do with NPO saying that it is not OK to accept information from third parties (hence the DoW on OV).

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"Moos own alliance [sic]" did not accept information. One member fell prey to a sting operation. One member does not "Moos own alliance [sic]" make.

Some of our members don't eat babies (silly vegetarians), but our alliance eats babies. See how that works?

I believe only two members of Ordo Verde had logs. Yet, they all die?

Just pointing out that small bit of irony to you.
Edited by Rajistani
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Not according to Moo...

Yes, it is.

I mean, a nuanced explanation of this policy isn't going to work here on the CN forums, as we all know, but I'll try.

The NPO does not spy. The NPO does not accept information from other spies.

People spy on the NPO. When other people offer information to us with the purpose of catching said spies, we use it. That's what Moo's quote refers to.

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"Moos own alliance [sic]" did not accept information. One member fell prey to a sting operation. One member does not "Moos own alliance [sic]" make.

Some of our members don't eat babies (silly vegetarians), but our alliance eats babies. See how that works?

Granted, i commited the fallacy of composition there.

But then, can you explain to me why the DoW on OV is happening?

A member accepted information, and therefore the entire alliance is attacked? Seems NPO/TORN like to use that fallacy aswell.

I don't think you can have it both ways.

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Yes, it is.

I mean, a nuanced explanation of this policy isn't going to work here on the CN forums, as we all know, but I'll try.

The NPO does not spy. The NPO does not accept information from other spies.

People spy on the NPO. When other people offer information to us with the purpose of catching said spies, we use it. That's what Moo's quote refers to.

So spying is bad - receiving information from a spy is bad - but receiving infromation from a spy to catch a spy is okay?

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"Moos own alliance [sic]" did not accept information. One member fell prey to a sting operation. One member does not "Moos own alliance [sic]" make.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that Ursarker has been rather active on these forums, and aware of the circumstances surrounding NPO's (late) DoW on OV? I'd have to say one active member, who was well aware of the consequences, accepted logs from a private channel.

Maybe he hasn't been getting enough babies to eat lately. I hear that a lack of the nutrients found in babies can cause horrible drops in the IQ of Pacificans.

Edited by Aloop
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I believe only two members of Ordo Verde had logs. Yet, they all die?

This point has been argued to death in the past. You, as a member of your alliance, support your alliances Government. In the case that they do anything stupid, you are supporting those stupid actions as well.

The members of an alliance are responsible for the actions of it's leaders.

Edit: That, and what Cortath said.

Edited by Lord of Destruction
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Since when haven't people !@#$%*ed about CB's?

The outrage has to do with NPO saying that it is not OK to accept information from third parties (hence the DoW on OV).

Then you don't need this "sting operation" to prove that point.

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This point has been argued to death in the past. You, as a member of your alliance, support your alliances Government. In the case that they do anything stupid, you are supporting those stupid actions as well.

The members of an alliance are responsible for the actions of it's leaders.

Edit: That, and what Cortath said.

Yet leaders are not responsible for the actions of their members?

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Granted, i commited the fallacy of composition there.

But then, can you explain to me why the DoW on OV is happening?

A member accepted information, and therefore the entire alliance is attacked? Seems NPO/TORN like to use that fallacy aswell.

I don't think you can have it both ways.

But, it wasnt just one member, it was several and they chose to not share the information with others. This was one guy who made a simple mistake and didnt share it. Also, the alliance would not agree to ANY terms.

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No. Our terms were that one of them get a single ZI. That's even less than what you want! Yet our terms were refused.

So would it be fair for us to ZI Ursarkar?

Disclaimer: I don't mean to imply there is an "us."

The members of an alliance are responsible for the actions of it's leaders.
Edited by Rajistani
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The Emperor and Government of the New Pacific Order has received no logs from this person, or any person within VE, and if offered them, we would refuse.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54735

Really?

No. Our terms were that one of them get a single ZI. That's even less than what you want! Yet our terms were refused.

If terms were that Moo got ZIed for the same offense - would you accept that offer?

(note that question is rhetorical and isn't an actual offer in the event that NPO actually would accept that offer)

I find it hard to agree that terms were refused when your alliance attacked OV in the middle of negotiations.

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I'm sorry, was that the terms that were given while the DoW's started rolling down?

They were the terms refused two days.

I can't think of any way to make the terms less: no apology, no reparations, nothing punitive. No membership ban. A single round of ZI.

What more do these people want than such mild terms?

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