The Mendacity of Populism

[Byron Orpheus]

Your central plank is that the Pax Pacifica is good for everyone. FAN, GPA, GATO and many others throughout the history of the Pax (essentially GW3 to today) show that that is not the case. With the postulate removed, all your flowery logic is nothing but hot air.

Good for the majority, not everyone. GATO seems to be benefiting quite nicely, actually.

[shahenshah]

Much to the impediment of progress as we continue through a reign of peace and prosperity in our world is the growing rise of the populist movement across our globe. Sadly, many a ruler has been swept up into this anarchic movement, placing stock into the rantings of the manipulators that plague our alliances. Do not think, however, that all those involved in this small fraction of nations are silly or unintelligent for buying into the lies they are sold; indeed, at first glance this populism seems like everything a person would want—the overthrow of an oppressive, tyrannical regime; the placement of power into the hands of the commoners; freedom, both of speech and of action. Yes, it does sound like a golden age that will be ushered in, and I admit that even I hear their silver tongues and, for a brief moment, consider to myself what a brave new world the populists promise us all. But then I see their methods, I look beyond their rhetoric and their empty promises, and I am aghast at the nightmarish reality that they want to thrust upon globe.

The overthrow of an oppressive regime? Certainly, if there is an overlording tyrant in our midst, let us cast him out into the darkness and never speak of him again; but, my fellow Bobians, no such man exists—they man that they would indict as this mythical “tyrant”, the esteemed Emperor Revenge, is a fair and benevolent ruler (and as great a friend as many could ask for) who works closely with his allies to establish a peaceful, pleasant atmosphere for all to benefit from—a Pax Pacifica, used as a searing curse by those too blinded with misguided hate to embrace the prosperity freely handed to them, which has allowed so many nations and alliances to grow in relative safety from rogues, raiders, and the savage, tribal unaligned. Where is this tyrant of which they speak, then? They fault Emperor Revenge because he must keep order in a judicious manner, because he and his allies must reinforce the peace from which we have all reaped rewards, they call him a villain. If it is villainy to step in from time to time and, with the aid of likeminded friends, keep order and dignity within our world by targeting violent criminals and dangerous extremists, then count me as a villain as well, for I have no qualms with the swift treatment of those who would try to destroy the world that so many have labored to build.

Placement of power in the commoner’s hands? Again, an ideal that all of us will associate with benevolent democracy, but is it? No, what the populists truly mean to achieve is to put themselves in a position of power by using your hard work and muscle as a weapon against those who truly do have your best interests in mind. Still worse, what they propose backfire on their insatiable desire for power and will plunge our planet into a dark age with no discernible order or friendship, with allies few and far between as our citizens cry from the wreckage of a smoldering state for help that will never arrive. Multipolarity—this is nothing but a code word for anarchy, friends, and is the very antithesis of what the world has been working to build for years now; you must consider whether you really want to be a part of a world that is either ruled by real tyrants that have spoken poisoned words into your ears, feeding off your emotion, or, still worse, to live in the bleak future that will actually result from these madmen’s quest for ultimate control. They have tried to convince you of something that in your heart of hearts you know to be untrue, and they will not stop until the world has lost all progress.

Freedom of speech, freedom of action. These are the last of the significant promises made to us by the populist movement; however, do we not already have these rights? Surely we are restricted, as are all civilized people, by the social contracts that allow us to live in relative harmony with each other. However, so long as I am not harming any of my peers, I am already free to do as I please. I am free to speak as I please—the populists prove this fact well enough on their own through their heated rhetoric that never seems to result in their destruction at the hands of the police state they claim exists. All alliances have the same restrictions on action and speech—so long as one does not threaten that alliance’s safety (again, no matter what alliance is being discussed), there is nothing to fear. This is standard for the civilized world, and Pacifica and her allies are no exception.

I hope that with these ideas in mind the world will be able to better see the threat it is facing; the populists speak as if they had the voice of the people, but in reality they are the voice of the select few. It is a common tactic for populists of any sort (not necessarily anti-Pacifican populists) to point to a mythical “elite” to demonize so that through this demonization they can obtain a membership base that would not be so large if they were honest with their goals and ideology to the membership. If you take nothing else from what I have written, remember this: do not allow yourself to become a pawn to the populist propaganda; do not allow these extremists to undermine what you have worked so hard to build, a prosperous golden age where alliances are stronger and wealthier than ever; use your Admin-given intelligence and make the right decisions—the future of the world depends on it.

An excellent piece of work. I do have one suggestion, you should have compared the populist views before and after GATO freedom. I think it may have helped your point of view.

Edited April 16, 2009 by shahenshah

[Vilien]

Good for the majority, not everyone. GATO seems to be benefiting quite nicely, actually.

The prosperity of the majority against the suffering of the few is a false choice. These alliances have been singled out and eliminated for political expediency, not for the "greater good". Try again.

[Keve69]

All I got to say is good rebutle heggo!

[Byron Orpheus]

An excellent piece of work. I do have one suggestion, you should have compared the populist views before and after GATO freedom. I think it may have helped your point of view.

Ah, you are right! Thank you for that criticism; it would have been constructive to my point to compare the two.

Maybe I should use you as an editor. :lol:

[bahman]

Doing nothing but discussions on how big successful alliances are ruining the game for, at least in my eyes, radical and almost terrorist groups seems to do nothing but provoke spam with some good points mixed in.

[Deuterium Dawn]

Where is this tyrant of which they speak, then?

Fan, held down for almost 2 years now. GATO held down through war and "indefinite" surrender terms for a year before they were finally released in a desperate bid for PR. GPA, tech raided in masse and then forbidden from owning more than 12 nukes for a year. Johnathan Brookbank, held down for 8 months. Chickenzilla, whose reroll was hunted down and used to start a war. Most of Vox, PZI'd before it even formed. There is your tyranny.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Deuterium Dawn

[Byron Orpheus]

The prosperity of the majority against the suffering of the few is a false choice. These alliances have been singled out and eliminated for political expediency, not for the "greater good". Try again.

I'm sorry to see that the anarchists have already gotten to you.

[Byron Orpheus]

Fan, held down for almost 2 years now. GATO held down through war and "indefinite" surrender terms for a year before they were finally released in a desperate bid for PR. GPA, tech raided in masse and then forbidden from owning more than 12 nukes for a year. Johnathan Brookbank, held down for 8 months. Chickenzilla, whose reroll was hunted down and used to start a war. Most of Vox, PZI'd before it even formed. There is your tyranny.

I see, in the order you listed them: traitors, treaty violators, *skip GPA since I know nothing about it*, traitor, extremist, extremists.

I believe one person used the word "terrorists". A little strong for my liking, but not completely without merit.

[Jack Diorno]

I see, in the order you listed them: traitors, treaty violators, *skip GPA since I know nothing about it*, traitor, extremist, extremists.

I believe one person used the word "terrorists". A little strong for my liking, but not completely without merit.

They may of deserved war, but not indefinite terms of surrender. If you know nothing about GPA then maybe you should read up on history before commentating it.

[bahman]

"Almost terrorist" is what should've/thought I said. These organizations are made for no other reason then to cause disturbances in a "peaceful" world

*edit:

They may of deserved war, but not indefinite terms of surrender. If you know nothing about GPA then maybe you should read up on history before commentating it.

he said he skipped it, therefore he did not comment on it...

Edited April 16, 2009 by bahman

[heggo]

I blame any conflict in the near future on those that have been lead astray by the hateful rhetoric, a symptom of those that would disrupt the existing order only for their own personal gain.

Ha! Led astray by rhetoric? It is the incompetence of your leaders and the uninvigorating nature of peace that is responsible. That your world order runs contrary to personal desires for gain proves its weakness.

I sacrifice nothing and seek to maintain nothing but that which is of the greatest benefit for all--the warmongers can find their conflict amongst the unenlightened.

I impressed by your unique ability to ignore what is directly in front of your face! You gave up the only thing worth existing as a nation for- conflict and the freedom to create it! Cast me into the mold of the unenlightened if you like, but as more and more surrender to their natural and human desires for conflict, the lie that is your peace shall be revealed.

And yet I am not the one protesting. It has been a source of interest to me that the alliances allied with Pacifica are the ones who are being told how to actually feel, yet their own opinions on the subject are readily dismissed.

Well of course you don't. I'm contending that you're an idiot, if you haven't noticed.

I would have to review the causes of that war to speak intelligently on it.

You'd have to review a lot of things to speak intelligently.

I do not feel coerced in the least. NPO has never forced me (or even asked me) to do anything.

You, uhh, ever heard of a guy named shaneprince?

The treaties are a reaction to the obsolete need for tight alliance security and, as we have seen elsewhere, will work themselves out over time.

What does that even mean? How is that a response to my statement? My indite is of you and your false peace, not just your fool treaties!

Where you see stagnation I see prosperity. Those desiring warfare should commit themselves to weeding out the extremists and the treacherous from our midst.

That is not warfare. That is not struggle. That is secret police work, the mere murder of dissenters. In that, there is no opportunity for meeting worthy enemies on the field of battle. No place for honor. For valianceor for virtue. For personal desires, for the lust for power! What useless lie of a war is that?

If I were to write a scathing remark about the NPO right now I imagine I would remain unscathed.

Yet you would fear to try.

I was not referring to the Vox extremist group that rightfully find itself as a target. I was referring more to the Vox-sympathetic rhetoricians that spew their bile across the board.

Yours would kill them if they still could: I know for this is precisely what they once did.

Prosperity, peace, and stability are not attributes that are purchased lightly; Pacifica and her allies will from time to time be called forth to defend their freedoms.

You sacrifice more lives than you claim to protect! That is no light price, and even then, for what do you pay? Cowardice and an absence of virtue is all.

Oh, and if you wish to disagree with me further, I recommend thusly: go back to my initial post and respond to my reasons, for your reply was nothing beyond a sad shell of an argument. I substantiated my claims with reasons and arguments which ran contrary to yours. That you opted to respond by (functionally) restating the contents of your initial post says much to support my belief that you are a faux intellectual. At best.

[Byron Orpheus]

They may of deserved war, but not indefinite terms of surrender. If you know nothing about GPA then maybe you should read up on history before commentating it.

I did not comment on it, and you can be sure that I will get back to you eventually on that issue. As for indefinite terms of surrender, GATO did not have to agree to those terms.

[Vilien]

I'm sorry to see that the anarchists have already gotten to you.

Dubbing your opposition "terrorists" makes their points no less applicable. You still fail to address the argument that the "Pax Pacifica" is an unintended consequence of the violent stifling of any meaningful opposition, whether actual or perceived.

[Bob Janova]

Being 'good for the majority' is of no interest to the minority, and therefore there is no reason that they should agree to continue to be oppressed under the Pax Pacifica.

[heggo]

I see, in the order you listed them: traitors, treaty violators, *skip GPA since I know nothing about it*, traitor, extremist, extremists.

Oh heavens, it seems like someone is believing his own stories!

And another thing. I was confused by the word extremist, so I looked it up in my Orphean dictionary.

Extremist: n. Someone who disagrees with the GGA and its current owners.

That explains it!

In any case, all your points are moot so long as you refuse to reply to my claim that your Pax is not only harmful for the stagnancy it fosters, for its tendency to suppress fundamental human desires that ought be expressed, and for its tendency to bushwhack anyone who dare attempt to find virtue in this world.

Edited April 17, 2009 by heggo

[Byron Orpheus]

Ha! Led astray by rhetoric? It is the incompetence of your leaders and the uninvigorating nature of peace that is responsible. That your world order runs contrary to personal desires for gain proves its weakness.

Again, let us read "peace" whenever I refer to peace. Clearly I am not referring to a total stagnation of all motion, but rather that the status quo of prosperity be maintained for those nations that embrace it.

I impressed by your unique ability to ignore what is directly in front of your face! You gave up the only thing worth existing as a nation for- conflict and the freedom to create it! Cast me into the mold of the unenlightened if you like, but as more and more surrender to their natural and human desires for conflict, the lie that is your peace shall be revealed.

I give up nothing, my freedom to create conflict is intact. I realize, however, the folly of perpetual combat.

You, uhh, ever heard of a guy named shaneprince?

Yes, and I disagree with your assessment of the issue.

That is not warfare. That is not struggle. That is secret police work, the mere murder of dissenters. In that, there is no opportunity for meeting worthy enemies on the field of battle. No place for honor. For valianceor for virtue. For personal desires, for the lust for power! What useless lie of a war is that?

There is plenty of room for honor for those that desire war and plenty of room for those who desire to grow and deal with other matters.

Yet you would fear to try

Only because it would end up as a misquoted signature, not because I would fear for my safety.

You sacrifice more lives than you claim to protect! That is no light price, and even then, for what do you pay? Cowardice and an absence of virtue is all.

What is virtue? A construct of the weak to explain why their weakness is better than strength.

[bahman]

There will never be a time when everyone is happy with everything. A majority is better then nothing, and the minority should not go about attacking the majority just for being successful in their endeavors.

[Byron Orpheus]

Dubbing your opposition "terrorists" makes their points no less applicable. You still fail to address the argument that the "Pax Pacifica" is an unintended consequence of the violent stifling of any meaningful opposition, whether actual or perceived.

I have addressed the argument, you simply refuse to accept my explanation. Pacifica has a great many vocal detractors that live in peace.

[heggo]

I give up nothing, my freedom to create conflict is intact. I realize, however, the folly of perpetual combat.

You are free to do what you are told!

There is plenty of room for honor for those that desire war and plenty of room for those who desire to grow and deal with other matters.

Ahh yes, the honorable rollings. Oh, and there is no peace for those who desire growth. The GPA was bushwhacked out of cold blood. A peaceful isolationist alliance interested only in economic growth was murdered for getting ranked first for a time.

Only because it would end up as a misquoted signature, not because I would fear for my safety.

Rationalizations.

Pacifica has a great many vocal detractors that live in peace mode.

Fixed that for you. The word many is only apt once you disregard vox and those who no longer are allowed to live.

What is virtue? A construct of the weak to explain why their weakness is better than strength.

Firstly, lol someone from GGA is talking about strength.

Second of all, this explains much. That you deny the existence of virtue, of honor and all other things attendant to it? That explains much. I am proud to claim you as an enemy.

And on that note, I must observe that you obviously can not reply to me substantiatively. Your posts decline in both length and quality; you refuse defend increasingly large portions of your views, and refuse to contradict increasingly large portions of mine. All you have left is restatements of your original post, you are left to retreat into the belief that there is no such thing as virtue, such as honor. Of the evidence you understand, you ignore it, and I feel no need to persist in presenting it under such circumstance. For these reasons, Byron, I believe that this conversation with you can serve no further purpose.

Edited April 17, 2009 by heggo

[Deuterium Dawn]

I did not comment on it, and you can be sure that I will get back to you eventually on that issue. As for indefinite terms of surrender, GATO did not have to agree to those terms.

Yes, because they had the oh so attractive option of eternal war!

[Byron Orpheus]

Yes, because they had the oh so attractive option of eternal war!

They could have fought until there were more lenient terms, or avoided the conflict in the first place.

[Deuterium Dawn]

They could have fought until there were more lenient terms, or avoided the conflict in the first place.

They had fought for 4 months, and NPO flatly stated that those were the only terms they were getting.

[Byron Orpheus]

You are free to do what you are told!

I do what I am told out of a sense of duty; beyond my duty I have no obligations.

Ahh yes, the honorable rollings. Oh, and there is no peace for those who desire growth. The GPA was bushwhacked out of cold blood. A peaceful isolationist alliance interested only in economic growth was murdered for getting ranked first for a time.

Does that not fit with your desire for chaos and blood? I notice that you are avoiding the issue of other alliances and continue speaking about the GPA, so I decided to do my research. GPA was attacked for accepting Lord Swampy, who had attempted to coup a NPO ally and was therefore a rogue individual. Does not sound so innocent now.

Firstly, lol someone from GGA is talking about strength.

Second of all, this explains much. That you deny the existence of virtue, of honor and all other things attendant to it? That explains much. I am proud to claim you as an enemy.

I deny them as objective. They may exist for you, but I see little reward in holding myself to false ideals that remove me from objective goals.

[Byron Orpheus]

They had fought for 4 months, and NPO flatly stated that those were the only terms they were getting.

Well, then I suppose we are only left with the first option: GATO should have come to NPO as soon as they discovered the Kaos treaty violation instead of trying to cover it up.