Unko Kalaikz Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Luckily for starfox your ideas on his opinions are purely speculation since you would have no way of knowing what someone who disappeared form this world before your existence could have been thinking, right? My scholars are quit skilled in the art of divination and the art of raising dark spirits from the tomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I am going to nicely ask that members of alliances that not only were not in \m/ but actively supported the war against \m/ stop trying to make it look like they were so against the terms that \m/ were given. Some people who were actually at war with \m/ were against the terms that \m/ were given. (Not me, of course. I wasn't in tilde. However, I had plenty of friends who were at the time.) Also, this argument could be applied to Sponge equally to prevent him from discussing the terms given to GATO, as he was at war with GATO. No, I don't think it should work that way either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finner Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Congrats, I'm very happy to see this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTofAK Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Finally. Let's hope some ghost of our past don't hunt us again. You mean the INC. I know you guys stay off the OWF forum for the most part so you might not know this but I think they are pretty much done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezequiel Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) Now that is what I like to see done in Brothers and Sisters o/ Pacifica o/ GATO o/ Freedom Edited April 15, 2009 by Ezequiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'd say you were in favor of them anyway, but nice try. I was different from them by the way. The selective memory of some of the folks around here with a Sponge priapism (I believe the proper medical term is Acute Slayeritis) is pretty hilarious. I am in favor of some things they do and against other things they do, I guess that puts me outside your black and white view of the world. This is a political victory one that should be celebrated by those against harsh punishments. I myself am against harsh punishments. Even if it simply symbolic, this may give alliances that were worried about the NPO's opinion on the matter to stand up and make their own decision whatever decision that may be. And yes, there are those alliances, they tend to be smaller, worried about protecting their membership, and out of the loop on what is going on. But this is not what all the opposition is about. The opposition wants to see NPO burn, not change. They want a war, and they want to see NPO beaten. They may have a large amount of valid reasons for it, but this EZI policy is hardly one since not to long ago most alliances needed conviencing what is now becoming a prevalent belief on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I expect this is just something to lessen the huge PR hit that Q is about to take today. Some advice people, be on the forums today. Edited April 15, 2009 by Chickenzilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTofAK Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Luckily for starfox your ideas on his opinions are purely speculation since you would have no way of knowing what someone who disappeared from this world before your existence could have been thinking, right? Do not discount the scholars of the Mines fo Silva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I expect this is just something to lessen the huge PR hit that Q is about to take today. Some advice people, be on the forums today. Thanks for the heads-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I expect this is just something to lessen the huge PR hit that Q is about to take today. Some advice people, be on the forums today. ruh roh Should we start putting in bets on how many pages it will reach before lock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Because that's all they can come up with to try and paint me as some sort of pretender, that what I am saying doesn't really matter because one time I gave an alliance some crappy terms.Let me tell you all about crappy terms. The nonsense terms put forward to Ivan Moldavi and I during the negotiations to end the Great Patriotic War were unprecedented in scale. I am sure not many people here realize that one of the initial demands the CoaLUEtion placed upon the Orders before peace would be granted was the complete disbandment of the New Polar Order. We refused their demands, kept coming to the negotiations and arguing our side, and continued prosecuting the war. Contrast that with what \m/ was offered and it does compare, yes. Where the comparison fails is in the response of the parties involved. We didn't throw our hands up and say 'war's over, we can't win'. We said 'Okay, we're not disbanding. We'll keep fighting and let's see how this looks to you in a couple days.' Criticizing me over \m/ disbanding is a very shallow attempt at character assassination. Blame the leaders of \m/, not me. I was in the same situation as they were except with many fewer allies and a far greater amount of damage done to my alliance. I reacted in the manner that one should expect from a leader. The fact they didn't isn't my fault. We wouldn't want character assassination now would we? Lets face it, Vox Populi is all about applying principles where convenient. They want GATO free but they don't want it to be able to make its own decisions. They want to go to pains to misconstrue others records and demonize them personally, but as soon as someone challenges them on their record they immediately try to divert attention and change the subject. What has been made abundantly clear in the two topics surrounding the restoration of GATO's sovereignty is that Vox Populi doesn't care about setting other alliances free or allowing them to pursue their own path. They are not interested in developing constructive solutions for the cyberverse. Instead they are interested in one thing, starting a war so they can get back into power and resume their own agenda which included some very questionable acts by their own standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Do not discount the scholars of the Mines fo Silva. I don't OOC: I just get annoyed when someone uses OOC knowledge like that especially when they are so adamant about how they are not the same character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incitatus Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Wow. This is....unbelievable. Congrats to GATO and everyone released. And bravo to Moo (and Dilber)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neboe Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 While I do offer some commendations to Moo and company for granting GATO’s release and offering peace to the Jarheads and Starfox, I still do not believe any round of congratulations is due for the however clause I spoke about earlier in this thread. I raised a point that was unilaterally answered and therefore left with only one conclusion. The use of PZI and EZI by the NPO is not changing, because if this proclamation were to change that use, it would summarily, by its very wording, limit the powers of the Emperor. Since, I’ve been told that is not possible, the end state regarding the use of PZI and EZI as a tactic of punishment by the NPO is not changing. So I still wonder why so many of you that are so opposed to those tactics see fit to congratulate the NPO for doing what amounts to nothing in that specific regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rune Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 GATO, I had no intention to say anything to you...but look at this. Your new allies, your new friends, have just spit on the sacrifice that I and my comrades in the IAA made. They destroyed us for helping you...and now attempt to diminish our sacrifice, only speaking of how great their supposed sacrifice was. I do not believe for one moment that the GATOans who fought during the war will forget the sacrifice made by you and countless others. I wish that neither side would attempt to make political capital out of our release from viceroy, and just be glad that this day has happened. But then you can't get everything you wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 This is a political victory one that should be celebrated by those against harsh punishments. I myself am against harsh punishments. Even if it simply symbolic, this may give alliances that were worried about the NPO's opinion on the matter to stand up and make their own decision whatever decision that may be. And yes, there are those alliances, they tend to be smaller, worried about protecting their membership, and out of the loop on what is going on. How is this a victory against harsh punishments? It hasn't stopped NPO from doing it again, and they haven't said they'd never do it again. This is just NPO finally getting around to letting a defeated opponent up after far, far too long. There will continue to be harsh punishments doled out to anyone who dares oppose NPO. But this is not what all the opposition is about. The opposition wants to see NPO burn, not change. They want a war, and they want to see NPO beaten. They may have a large amount of valid reasons for it, but this EZI policy is hardly one since not to long ago most alliances needed conviencing what is now becoming a prevalent belief on the matter. To be quite honest I don't think you understand where the battlefield is, let alone what the war's about. We're winning this war without having to set a single nation ablaze let alone an alliance. If NPO were to change to be more egalitarian and concerned with the big picture, I would welcome it! I will be the first one to say I think NPO has brought a lot of good, many technical and philosophical advancements have come from there. For example, CN101 is the guide by which all other alliance guides are measured and I believe that NPO deserves a lot of credit for developing it. I do not agree with the heavy-handedness with which they deal with defeated opponents, and the arrogance they display when deciding who gets to participate and who doesn't (and under what name they may participate). If they were to demonstrate real change, and not half-measures couched in vague language that allows them to continue doing whatever strikes their fancy, I would be glad to concede those points to them and give them credit for doing so. We wouldn't want character assassination now would we? Lets face it, Vox Populi is all about applying principles where convenient. Reyne's own words made her look bad. That's not character assassination. That's character suicide. They want to go to pains to misconstrue others records and demonize them personally, but as soon as someone challenges them on their record they immediately try to divert attention and change the subject. Kinda like criticizing me over \m/'s surrender terms but then when I answer the criticism well, you move on to something else designed to paint me as some sort of crazily conflicted evil genius freedom fighter (or whatever it is you're trying to do, it's sort of haphazard)? I can lend you some credibility since you seem to be losing all yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 You worked hard to survive, and I am very glad you did. But it's now become insulting to watch. Do you not see NPOers here, attempting to diminish our service to GATO? We were brothers, and they said we would never get terms. Have you forgotten that so fast? I would never hail someone who enslaved me and killed my brother. Why do you? You are glad they survived but rather have them under the jackboot of NPO or disbanded? You certainly can't want to have them as a sovereign alliance capable of making their own decisions. Yes, the IAA fought and fought hard for GATO. I am fairly certain GATO has not nor will ever forget that. What you need to remember is that holding grudges are for the weak, while rebuilding and moving on is for the strong. GATO has become strong, you seem to remain weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I like all of the things in the OP. Whatever motivated them, they're good things. Well done NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyrie9002 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I hope when people see my posts in this thread they realize I am not some arrogant stat collector who is trying to work against Pacifica simply because its the cool thing to do. I was in GATO for over a year, fought in several great wars fro them, and was ZI'ed by NPO while fighting for them. I love the Brown Colony, and I am incredibly disheartened to see that the attitudes of the once great democratic and free GATO have been morphed by 7 months of involuntary servitude. When I was in GATO, we didn't hate NPO, or plot and against her, but we saw her as someone who wanted us dead, and was simply looking for a CB. Now, it seems that all of that has been forgotten, and GATO is just as willing to trust NPO as it was two years ago. GATO wake up, the Viceroyship didn't help you, that's like saying the government helped out a business by taking it over. You have been castrated and brainwashed, and it hurts me to see you so eagerly approving a treaty. It also hurts to see people praise Pacifica for the release, when it was them that waged a pointless war, then placed GATO under ridiculous terms for 7 months. I don't know, but sometimes I feel like GATO should have disbanded like \m/ rather than suffer this ignominy. Sorry if I don't make much sense, I'm not very good at writing. Edited April 15, 2009 by valkyrie9002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wing Chun Stunna Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Oh really? This is a new thing? I have continually over the past couple of years removed people from our ZI lists; some I have removed more than once. And, no, I don't sit at the computer 24/7; so the odds are if I didn't respond to a query then I wasn't around—I was probably at work or school. I don't recall ever getting a PM from you nor you taking advantage of the opportunity for Vox members to surrender which has been in existence for months. And if you were truly only there for 2 days and never did anything, you were never sentenced to anything other than simple ZI, which could have easily been pardoned had you simply followed the surrender procedure that Reyne (iirc) posted on this very forum. I did follow that procedure and after all your allies granted me peace I came out of peace mode and was immediately attacked by your alliance specifically. Once I interjected and tried to receive peace, I was ignored by you on irc, and even made a thread on the OWF which I saw you reading at one point. You chose not to respond and your alliance continued to hit my nation until it was rubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 <snip!> All of this is so excellent that I am speechless. Everybody now ! WUBS teh NPO ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 All of this is so excellent that I am speechless. Everybody now ! WUBS teh NPO ! lol oh Jerdge, the sarcasm it's killing me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minucci Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 How about white peace for NAAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iosif Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) They want GATO free but they don't want it to be able to make its own decisions. Vox doesn't have to like the decisions GATO makes in order to support their right to make those decisions, my dear friend. So far, I've seen signs of disappointment and even some outright trolling, but anything that would hint someone is actually willing to somehow limit GATO's rights when it comes to its own foreign policy? Nah-ah, that came right out of your arse, sir. EDIT: Shunn, shunn the typo monster Edited April 15, 2009 by Iosif Moldov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixoux Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 How about white peace for NAAC? Easy now, you know that issue isn't giving them bad PR at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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