Another Open Letter to GGA

[Kevin McDonald]

well I know but spam forums can at least get them active on the forums, which is always a good start.

Yeah, I had the same group of core members who did like it and kept active. I suppose it's the difference between 300 members and 20. A core group of members in a large® alliance means work is getting done. A core group of members out of 20 means you have 5 people posting fart jokes.

[Randleman]

And no, we never got any aidfalls or whatever. We sold tech.

Didn't we do a tech sell with you guys, or am I completely mistaken.

[KinKiac]

One of the things we do with new recruits in NV is that in order to receive their 3mill signing bonus they must first sign up for a nation audit and also sign up to be either a tech seller or buyer depending on the size of the nation. That alone seems to get most new nations involved in at least the TVE tech mart. We also offer mentors to any new nations who join. Much of what we do is probably not much different than what other alliances are doing, although I may not be the best person to answer this as I am not in IA or any other Gov position, nor have I ever been.

[KinKiac]

NV just attaches opportunity to a string and a plunger and sticks it to the heads of their new recruits. Most of them try and chase it.

LMAO, I just got a mental picture

[Randleman]

One of the things we do with new recruits in NV is that in order to receive their 3mill signing bonus they must first sign up for a nation audit and also sign up to be either a tech seller or buyer depending on the size of the nation. That alone seems to get most new nations involved in at least the TVE tech mart. We also offer mentors to any new nations who join. Much of what we do is probably not much different than what other alliances are doing, although I may not be the best person to answer this as I am not in IA or any other Gov position, nor have I ever been.

That's always the biggest difficulty, not just for us, but any alliance, is to find willing and active players for the game. I don't know it, but it would be a safe guess that most players after signing up, end up deleting for inactivity or just ghost within the first few months.

[the lizard queen]

Activity levels DO seem to be the main issue. I was guilty of inactivity when i first joined GGA as well. But I have to say they made me feel welcome and I eventually got involved with some tech circles and then ministry work.

GGA does have guides and many players who are willing to give sound advice about how to grow. The members have to actually get on the forums and interact though. I completely agree about a membership purge being necessary. I think the rest of the GGA does as well. Military wonders are definitely needed and we are all aware of it and they are a huge priority right now, unfortunately it takes longer than we'd like.

There is a lot that we are working on and we do have great members who CAN pull it off. Thanks for creating a thread that aimed at real dialogue for once, it's nice to see.

[The Doctor]

I myself never said I approved of the lay abouts we call members, I think we could honestly do with a good membership purge and leave the good and smart people behind, would make the GGA much less a laughing stock.

after going over your posts i have too say i wholeheartedly agree with you a purge would be brilliant.

The only problem is if it were my decision you would be the first one too go.

You are digging yourself a deeper hole in the face of people trying too help you and too be quite honest it is a disgrace.

EDIT: yes i did read the apology and in light of all his other trolling in other places it really doesn't cut the mustard

Edited April 12, 2009 by The Doctor

[Sooner]

Activity levels DO seem to be the main issue. I was guilty of inactivity when i first joined GGA as well. But I have to say they made me feel welcome and I eventually got involved with some tech circles and then ministry work.

GGA does have guides and many players who are willing to give sound advice about how to grow. The members have to actually get on the forums and interact though. I completely agree about a membership purge being necessary. I think the rest of the GGA does as well. Military wonders are definitely needed and we are all aware of it and they are a huge priority right now, unfortunately it takes longer than we'd like.

There is a lot that we are working on and we do have great members who CAN pull it off. Thanks for creating a thread that aimed at real dialogue for once, it's nice to see.

If that is the issue then you need to come up with ways to hold people interests through games, activities, contests for growth, etc. VE has dealt with this many times and it is far easier to get people active with fun things rather than getting rid of those that are hardly active on boards.

[the lizard queen]

If that is the issue then you need to come up with ways to hold people interests through games, activities, contests for growth, etc. VE has dealt with this many times and it is far easier to get people active with fun things rather than getting rid of those that are hardly active on boards.

I agree that is true. Believe it or not we do have a lot of contests, games etc. and in general have a lot of fun. Still there are some who remain inactive and those are the ones we need to purge. some have legitimate reasons but the others who do not contribute simply because of disinterest or whatever are the members i was referring to.

[Captain Flinders]

Where did I ever say that the GGA didn't have a problem? More common sense before opening your mouth next time would be much appreciated.

So what is GGA's problem and how can it be fixed?

[Juan Valdez]

Where did I ever say that the GGA didn't have a problem? More common sense before opening your mouth next time would be much appreciated.

Wow. Just ... wow.

[King MyLife]

This is a very constructive thread and i have confidence we will be where we want to be..everything takes time and time is of the essence..Im pretty sure we will get there...It might not be tomorrow or next week..But we will make it.. B)

Edited April 12, 2009 by mylife125

[karthikking]

And dont go giving me some random stuff about GGA having new nations. I am only 60 something days old or so and i have 8k NS nothing special but honestly you cant use young as an excuse . And your 400 day old nations are at 5000 NS. I would attack but tech raiding is banned and they are out of range. I am not trying to be rude or anything but I wholeheartedly support Zzzptm's statement.

[karthikking]

tech deals, and spam forums.

Thats my favorite part

[General Specific]

Like I said, the majority of our member nations are new....

That right there is the only reason why alliances like the GGA still exist.

[Haflinger]

Didn't we do a tech sell with you guys, or am I completely mistaken.

You're probably thinking of UPN, who we adore, and I believe cut you guys a couple mass-deals, which we don't really do anymore (too much hassle).

[SilverHawk]

Wow. Just ... wow.

This is getting almost comical in it's groundhog-dayism.

[Partisan]

Sorry Silverhawk. Im actually at work right now and it took me so long to actually get the post typed up and submitted that much more had been said by the time i did. At the time I started writing it i only saw one page, i now realize that much of what i said had already been said by others and I apologize. I do have one question now though, how come no one else from GGA is posting in here? Im just asking because if we had some more GGA members in here with a positive attitude maybe we could start up some challenges and such between individual nations like ZZ was talking about?

I generally tend not to post in flame fests...it only makes things worse

I'd like to politely ask some of you guys, to stop quoting silverhawk in this thread. He has admitted his mistake and apologized, let's not try to derail this great thread.

props to you, zzzptm...I really appreciate someone giving us constructive advice, without sarcasm and flaming.

as stated in previous posts, our activity is indeed a big problem. Perhaps there is the possibility of organizing a spam war with another alliance, it might help raising it.

[Rickyman1984]

I don't know why people think that GGA Gov needs to be taught nation growth 101.

GGA Gov knows what it needs to do, it just doesn't do it. Time and time again when faced with the choice of making a real substantive change or trying to do an easy quick fix, gov will seek the quick fix.

People in other alliances having problems with us? Just ignore them.

A minister has an issue with a particular member of Gov's conduct? Call them a whiner/don't listen to them.

Want to try and improve things in the alliance? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Time and time again, Gov has told general membership "there are issues, we're aware of them. Don't worry they'll be addressed" and they never really are. This isn't a new problem, it's been going on for months, if you look at the alliance growth chart, the last month could be substituted for the month before, or the month before that, or the month before that. Most of the people leaving the alliance are ministry level workers frustrated with the way things are run, not semi active people. It's a slow death for the alliance, and I think it's tragic considering how many really great people doing good work are over there.

The alliance can get itself back together, it has all the tools and knowledge readily at hand. It just needs to make a philosophical shift in how it treats people. I can think of a couple Gov members when I was there that I never wanted to talk to because they would invariably try to act tough and intimidate people no matter how good the intentions and/or ideas were. It was just pointless to try and bring things to them. Towards the end of my tenure I really thought that Gov cared more about Gov than it did anything else. (the treatment of DerekJones and Kwilliams being the newest example, but going back to the loss of other notable members because of fairly ridiculous circumstances)

If Gov toned down the tough guy act and tried to serve the membership of the alliance with a degree of respect and openness, I think you'd see alot of former members returning. Most of us never really wanted to leave in the first place and want to come back, contribute, and have the alliance prosper.

(The above stuff doesn't apply to ALL of Gov, there's some really great people in it as well, just some things I personally encountered during my time there)

[Partisan]

I don't know why people think that GGA Gov needs to be taught nation growth 101.

GGA Gov knows what it needs to do, it just doesn't do it. Time and time again when faced with the choice of making a real substantive change or trying to do an easy quick fix, gov will seek the quick fix.

People in other alliances having problems with us? Just ignore them.

A minister has an issue with a particular member of Gov's conduct? Call them a whiner/don't listen to them.

Want to try and improve things in the alliance? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Time and time again, Gov has told general membership "there are issues, we're aware of them. Don't worry they'll be addressed" and they never really are. This isn't a new problem, it's been going on for months, if you look at the alliance growth chart, the last month could be substituted for the month before, or the month before that, or the month before that. Most of the people leaving the alliance are ministry level workers frustrated with the way things are run, not semi active people. It's a slow death for the alliance, and I think it's tragic considering how many really great people doing good work are over there.

The alliance can get itself back together, it has all the tools and knowledge readily at hand. It just needs to make a philosophical shift in how it treats people. I can think of a couple Gov members when I was there that I never wanted to talk to because they would invariably try to act tough and intimidate people no matter how good the intentions and/or ideas were. It was just pointless to try and bring things to them. Towards the end of my tenure I really thought that Gov cared more about Gov than it did anything else. (the treatment of DerekJones and Kwilliams being the newest example, but going back to the loss of other notable members because of fairly ridiculous circumstances)

If Gov toned down the tough guy act and tried to serve the membership of the alliance with a degree of respect and openness, I think you'd see alot of former members returning. Most of us never really wanted to leave in the first place and want to come back, contribute, and have the alliance prosper.

(The above stuff doesn't apply to ALL of Gov, there's some really great people in it as well, just some things I personally encountered during my time there)

It is sad to see that this is how you have experienced things, and there are problems indeed, however...I would like to point out, that at this moment, gov. is actually making some radical changes regarding policies etc.

I personally talk to the gov. alot, and when I have some ideas, advice, or problems, they actually DO listen, and DO try to explain things or go into a discussion with me. As I was not around for the past months, I cannot say how it was during this time, and thus, i will not comment on that, however, please do note, that changes are being made at this moment.

[Rickyman1984]

It is sad to see that this is how you have experienced things, and there are problems indeed, however...I would like to point out, that at this moment, gov. is actually making some radical changes regarding policies etc.

I personally talk to the gov. alot, and when I have some ideas, advice, or problems, they actually DO listen, and DO try to explain things or go into a discussion with me. As I was not around for the past months, I cannot say how it was during this time, and thus, i will not comment on that, however, please do note, that changes are being made at this moment.

If that's the case then I'm glad it's happening. I wish the changes would've happened while I was still there. All I can say is that some people that really wanted the best for the alliance have been treated like dirt. DJ and Kwill got spoken to in a way that I wouldn't speak to the worst Vox member while I was at the GGA.

EDIT: Spelled a word wrong.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Rickyman1984

[Randleman]

You're probably thinking of UPN, who we adore, and I believe cut you guys a couple mass-deals, which we don't really do anymore (too much hassle).

Hmm I know we did with UPN, they were bunch of great dudes, somehow I thought Invicta, must be mistaken

[zzzptm]

Rickyman, you used to be in GGA, so what you have to say comes with an insider's perspective.

You noted member retention as a big factor - this is something all alliances deal with.

To extend the NV/GGA comparison, we have people in NV leave all the time. We know the more advanced members will always come back. Raasaa resigned as emperor, went to join UPN for about a week or two, then came back to be emperor when MagicalBricks came down with BIRS. (ooc: Busy In Real-life Syndrome... trying to keep IC...) Our founder, Owned-You, did a stint in NPO, came back, and is currently in NSO. He left to go find new things and spread a little Vidianism here and there. We all say he'll be back. Don't know when, but he knows the key's underneath the mat when he does return.

Karthikking took the NV revolving door to an extreme when he switched AA for about four hours...

So why do they come back to NV? I think we really do have an open, meritocratic policy where people can all contribute in a meaningful way. At the top, our leaders have an attitude of wanting to help others in the alliance as their top priority - and it is communicated effectively through their actions and the actions they inspire.

Perhaps the turmoil at GGA may have arisen from a communications breakdown? It seems there are steps being taken to work on that, which would be great.

If there are good people that would come back to GGA if GGA made changes, what would those changes have to be? I'm sure there would be some private concerns, but there were also matters made public that would have to be addressed in public. Clearing up those matters would seem to be a step in the right direction.

And if that step is made, perhaps it could lead to a thaw in relations that have iced over? Who knows?

[Haflinger]

Hmm I know we did with UPN, they were bunch of great dudes, somehow I thought Invicta, must be mistaken

We've probably sold some of your nations tech on an individual basis.

But heck, you can say that for probably like half the alliances on the planet.

[Felix von Agnu]

Where did I ever say that the GGA didn't have a problem? More common sense before opening your mouth next time would be much appreciated.

Edit : Also, it's Planet Bob, not that abortion of a phrase "Digiterra".

You know, its people like you that are giving the GGA a bad name. If you really care for your alliance, you would pipe down, sit back, and let people who can post without looking like hat do the talking.

Really though, I don't like seeing teh GGA flailing around any more than zzzptm. I hope that GGA can get some good guides in place, and start to turn themselves around.