Cataduanes Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Is this thread about ES yet? nope....but it can be arranged B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I actually just messaged youwish asking him to remove the evidence altogether. We have provided that and more to the relevant parties. The trolls on the forum deserve nothing. What about the normal posters and citizens of Bob who are curious as to what evidence NSO has to Gabe's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 What about the normal posters and citizens of Bob who are curious as to what evidence NSO has to Gabe's? We have provided it. Several people have witnessed it. Beyond my word on the subject and those that have now seen it what is there for the common nation, who has no real vetted concern in this issue, to address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 We have provided it. Several people have witnessed it. Beyond my word on the subject and those that have now seen it what is there for the common nation, who has no real vetted concern in this issue, to address? (Hypothetically speaking) If someone who has remained neutral (not trolled) in this thread came to you and requested this evidence privately with you on IRC for example, would you be willing to present it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hilltopper was the fourth member of my alliance, signing on after bomberboy and lunagron. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hilltopper is a re-roll nation who I asked to join an alliance which at the time openly stated that all were welcome, regardless of their past. I did discuss the NPO ZI against him, and granted, I have only his word that he wasn't guilty of the accusations, but in either case, according to your acceptance policy at the time, should it have mattered? Not according to the ingame seniority. I did, and I questioned him on it. He denied it and again, I ask...if he were a Blackstone spy who was sent to spy on NSO, why would he leave to join a tiny alliance not worth spying on? If you were suspicious of him doing anything wrong, he didn't appear to be aware of it and had no reason to run. Furthermore, he wouldn't have ran to a fledging alliance for protection. Was he sent to spy on the NSO by Blackstone? You invited him, correct? That is what you state in the OP. Are you part of Blackstone as well? No you didn't. Conventional rules require proof of allegations and attempts to resolve matters with the leadership of the alliance before declaring on them. War should only take place when all other methods to resolve an issue have failed. Proof has been provided and even if it wasn't it still exists. War takes place because it is the natural course of events for the Cyberverse. Peace is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Logan Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Why is it ridiculous? Your only defense is that you have known him in previous characters, and now his character. You admit his old character has spied. So why trust his new one? What makes you so sure he wouldn't do it again? I'm not exactly sure why we would come to you, when we are about to declare on you. The fact of the matter is you are claiming that you know for a fact that hilltopper was not spying. Perhaps you should be ready to deal with those consequences, and be ready to defend what you believe to be oh so true? I don't know for sure that he wouldn't do it again. I do know that, as I stated earlier in the thread, that if you had proof, the right thing to do would have been to show me before hand and allow me the opportunity to get rid of him. You could've done what you wanted with him then. I will always defend any member of my alliance until I have absolute cause to not do so. You provided nothing more than "suspicion" to TOOL before declaring. You never spoke with me or offered any sort of proof prior to the DoW. Why would you come to me first, you ask? Wouldn't that have been the just thing to do? It sickens me that the mentality in Planet Bob is "might makes right". One day, I hope to see alliances standing up for what's right and taking out the trash that's infesting this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 One day, I hope to see alliances standing up for what's right and taking out the trash that's infesting this place. We are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Beyond my word on the subject and those that have now seen it what is there for the common nation, who has no real vetted concern in this issue, to address? Curiosity and boredom, my Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Gabe, the evidence was about all I'd expect us to be able to see on the forums and was enough for me to think you've just had your legs shot out from under you. Your only defense of hilltop or whatever was that he said he didn't do it, which frankly doesn't fly. What was said in your resignation ro what they did afterwards does not matter at all. What matters is the spying, that alone is enough to condemn you (to one week of war lol). They presented a screenshot of somebody posting from their forums and said that the IPs match (which they cannot prove on these forums but based on lack of people that they have proved this to contesting it, I will assume truth). Sorry, you've been outmatched here. Take your week of beatings and move on. As they said in the other thread I believe, if you wish to form an anti-NSO coalition and crush them later, they seem to very much welcome the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Curiosity and boredom, my Lord. You know, I eat cats. I prefer them alive but I don't mind if they are killed by curiosity. Regardless, I must depart. It is beginning to look like Gabe Logan prefers to see his alliance declared upon repeatedly instead of a white peace after one cycle. I hope not. I would find that unfortunate and distasteful, but not impossible to accommodate just the same. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Logan Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Well it was a good run Gabe but with those screenshots you might as well put up with it and take it like a man The IP wasn't posted, and we can go round and round, but the point is being missed entirely. Let's assume for a moment, that they have absolute proof that he was spying on them. Had they brought this proof to my attention, I would have kicked his $@! to the curb and stomped him for jeopardizing my alliance. But, that never happened, and given the treatment I've received from NSO in the recent past, I had no reason to believe their suspicion was any more than just that, a suspicion. NSO saw an opportunity and they took it. That's all there is to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I don't know for sure that he wouldn't do it again. I do know that, as I stated earlier in the thread, that if you had proof, the right thing to do would have been to show me before hand and allow me the opportunity to get rid of him. You could've done what you wanted with him then. I will always defend any member of my alliance until I have absolute cause to not do so. You provided nothing more than "suspicion" to TOOL before declaring. You never spoke with me or offered any sort of proof prior to the DoW. Why would you come to me first, you ask? Wouldn't that have been the just thing to do? It sickens me that the mentality in Planet Bob is "might makes right". One day, I hope to see alliances standing up for what's right and taking out the trash that's infesting this place. He wasn't a member, he was government. An alliance is responsible for the actions of its government. I thought that precedent was pretty much set in stone by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 NSO saw an opportunity and they took it. That's all there is to it. Welcome to Cyber Nations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Logan Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It is beginning to look like Gabe Logan prefers to see his alliance declared upon repeatedly instead of a white peace after one cycle. I hope not. I would find that unfortunate and distasteful, but not impossible to accommodate just the same.We shall see. And I would hope people here see the true nature of the NSO. Pixels can be destroyed. Honor and integrity cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 He can't post the IPs here, so he cannot provide that proof. You just lived up to their claims that you would go "FAKE LOL", congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenKalashnikov Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 You want proof? I'll give it you.For now, shouldn't you be dealing with my soldiers? I would like the proof too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I would like the proof too. It was already posted an removed. And you don't need the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I would like the proof too. It was posted. I was asked to remove it however. As a few will attest it is solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Evidence solid or not, Tool seemed happy with it, and the NSO have no need to hand it out like Candy. Move along people. all I see is another OMG you attacked me bawww thread. Hai Youwish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Unfortunately, "it's just one week" is not justification. It's bullying. I'm sorry if you feel this is bullying, I really do. However I personally do not see how attacking a documented spy is bullying... Hilltopper was the fourth member of my alliance, signing on after bomberboy and lunagron. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hilltopper is a re-roll nation who I asked to join an alliance which at the time openly stated that all were welcome, regardless of their past. I did discuss the NPO ZI against him, and granted, I have only his word that he wasn't guilty of the accusations, but in either case, according to your acceptance policy at the time, should it have mattered? Nations are allowed to join us without their past being taken into consideration, yes. That's what makes this even worse. We accepted a nation who was once a known spy. We gave him a clean slate. How are we repaid? Having screenshots taken from our forum and passed on to a spy ring. You should probably have a nice chat with your buddy there and ask him what he was up to while in the NSO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It was already posted an removed. And you don't need the proof. Well, I don't know if we're all happy with NSO just rolling an alliance without a CB. I'm sure there is one, but practice what you preach. If an alliance 100x the size of yours declared on your for no reason, you would be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenKalashnikov Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It was already posted an removed. And you don't need the proof. Well if I cant see proof then the only logical action is to believe the ones that have it and atm CDC has the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Well if I cant see proof then the only logical action is to believe the ones that have it and atm CDC has the proof. I for one currently share this sentiment and NSO needs to realise that many others will realise it too. If you just let us see the proof, (providing it justifies the reason for the war) all will be fine and I wish you luck crushing your opponent. Not allowed to post IPs? Remove them or host the pic yourself and link to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Well, I don't know if we're all happy with NSO just rolling an alliance without a CB. I'm sure there is one, but practice what you preach. If an alliance 100x the size of yours declared on your for no reason, you would be pissed. We don't care if you're unhappy. It's no business of yours. We have a valid CB. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. How are we not "practicing what we preach" exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Well if I cant see proof then the only logical action is to believe the ones that have it and atm CDC has the proof. Actually, currently neither side has any definitive proof on the forums. NSO has confirmed that they accused has spied before, and that he had access to their gov section long after he left without a resignation and joined his new alliance. Technically, they have more proof. CDC has their word that the guy would never do such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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