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I woke this morning to find my nation declared on along with the nations of my friends in our new alliance. I came immediately to the forums and found the DoW and read through it. Ivan Moldavi's CB is claims of a spy among us. Now to tell you all that's wrong...and what's right.

First, I want to make this very clear. Ivan stated that we are not protected by TOOL.

protectionstatement.jpg

O rly?

Now, I'm going to post the entire conversation that took place between myself and grahamkeatley, founder of TOOL.

nsoaccusation.jpg

The remaining conversation took place in pms between graham and I, and is copied and pasted below to read easier, but I can provide screenshots if needed:

I'll tell you what I know of Hilltopper and of the NSO, starting with the NSO. They are upset with me for two reasons.

1.) Although being encouraged to speak openly in their forums as a member, when I did so in my resignation thread, they immediately flamed me and then banned me from their forums. My issues were with Ivan's arrogance and the fact that they run the show with a 9 man council who do next to nothing while not offering real opportunity to their Marauders who are the ones actually building and running the alliance. The "friends network" didn't cut it for me.

Regarding Ivan's arrogance...while I was still a member, NSO announced the Terra Cotta pact with STA. In that thread, on page 8, Ivan responds to a STA member, the_great_one, and immediately insults him and taunts him. From there, everyone jumped on board. I also was posturing for the NSO before going back and finding the response from Ivan that started everything there. Skipping to the end, Tyga got pissed and the treaty was almost cancelled before it got started. I decided this was not the type of leadership I wanted nor the type of alliance I wanted to be affiliated with. Ivan prefers things being discussed in private (so he's not made a fool), but I had done that on a couple of other issues and since I was showing myself out the door, I posted my thoughts in my resignation thread. I didn't mind because it was done tastefully and because NSO claimed from the onset that they want to be different and encouraged us all to say what was on our minds, regardless of good or bad, etc. It was also done tastefully. However, I cited that I didn't agree with the alliance being governed by a crew of 9 with no actual workload and only authority while those who build the alliance aren't allowed into the top council.

I also stated that it bothered me that the Terra Cotta pact was planned and announced without anyone on the regular councils nor any general members knowing anything about it. Here we are slaving for the alliance and have no say, opinion, or even information regarding this pact and it's announced out of the blue.

Finally, I offered a word of caution that the statements made by Ivan were arrogant and uncalled for and that the NSO was making enemies faster than friends.

These were my reasons for leaving. After being banned from the forums, Ivan posted an apology on page 20 in the Terra Cotta thread and restored relations before it went to far. Yeah, you bet my calling him out had something to do with it.

Next issue:

2.) I was going to go with CDS, but bart and shadowslayer (both now NSO and former members of the defunct CDS) got mad that their acronym was being used and immediately began insulting me in my recruitment topic. I told bart to stop but he persisted. Then I reported him and he got a warn. He tried to report me after that for saying that he was being disrespectful and displayed a poor show of character. Funny enough, you should see the mods response. Anyway, after considering the negativity tied to the former CDS and the problems it was bringing about before we've even declared our existence, I made the change to CDC (Central Defense Corps).

So, NSO doesn't care for me and are trying anything they can to stunt my success. I won't cave, and I feel it would be the wrong decision to give in to their requests or concerns when their motivation should be clearer to you now. Still, it's your choice and I'll respect any decision you make.

Now, I want to talk about Hilltopper. Hilltopper is a re-roll nation who joined the NSO. He came because I invited him there while I was still a member. Now, he's left and joined me in CDC. So, does that make me a Blackstone Collusion member as well? Hardly. I've played with Hilltopper since he was known as titodafarmer in CyberCitizens. He's made mistakes along the way and got himself and others in trouble, and he's been accused of spying when he wasn't, but he's a kid and sometimes he tries to hard to do the right thing and in the end, his desire to try and be a hero to his alliance has backfired on him and got him into trouble. He was most recently a member of the NPO but he was kicked and put on ZI. I don't have all the details, but they thought he was a spy. He can explain it better than I can. I know he wasn't a spy. I know his entire path in CN. He was with me in GUN forever until he used a program that was supposed to match ips in IRC with those in game and he thought he had caught a spy, which eventually got GUN into some trouble over false accusations, etc. and we were forced to boot him. None of that matters at this point. He re-rolled and he has a fresh start, just as NSO gives its members and all alliances should. If they think he's Blackstone, they need to offer solid evidence. If you're willing to go on their word, then trust me, their word isn't worth the paper it's written on.

I can see where this is drama your alliance doesn't need. Looking through the !@#$%^&* that NSO is trying to throw at us, we're just a handful of guys trying to start up a respectable alliance and chose TOOL to ask to be our protectors because you, too, are a respectable and honorable alliance. Please let me know what you decide. Oh, and tito deserves a fair shot with his re-roll. Please don't give NSO or NPO ammunition they don't need. It's not warranted in the first place.

-Gabe

NSO have been asked for evidence on this, and I wouldnt follow blindly on anyone's word. Im above that. But again, if you didnt have a response like the one you have posted then there would of been an issue where the drama would of been too much.

Let me post up your response in Council and counteract the NSO conversation. Also, consider CDC under provisional protection from TOOL until we officially have the vote.

GK

In the original message above, key things I discuss are linked to the proof in the forums. Trust me, it's all there. The fact is that NSO never came to me and said they thought I had a spy, nor did they offer proof to graham or TOOL. Wait, I forgot, Ivan's Almighty's word is good enough. Not anymore. The accusation of hilltopper spying is ridiculous. I was in the NSO and so was he. If we were spying for someone else, wouldn't we have just stayed there? If hilltopper were Blackstone, wouldn't he hang out in a larger alliance rather than join a 5 man band? CAN PLANET BOB SEE HOW STUPID THIS IS?

I've been on the inside of the NSO. I know of their character, and that of their leader, Ivan Moldavi. This is a dangerous alliance who doesn't deserve the chance to gain any more power and has proven themselves as such by declaring this unwarranted attack on our nations, and all other things discussed above.

The TRUTH is clear.

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It will be interesting to see how NSO responds to this. For that matter it will be interesting to see how the Official Ivan Fan Club responds to this.

If all this checks out however, it appears that TOOL has a valid CB against NSO. I'll let others judge.

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Here's one factual thing wrong with that:

The Terra Cotta pact was not with the Siberian Tiger Alliance. Originally it was between the NSO and Carpe Diem (:wub:); and now the Imperium of Man have joined as well.

Now I bow out, as I have no interest in this dispute. Carry on with your regularly-scheduled drama.

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A brief treatise on "one of the most powerful men in the cyberverse"? How very droll.

You were a reliable tech dealer Gabe, I'll grant you that. Let me know when you're ready to sell me some tech again.

Edit: Correction.

Edited by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz
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If hilltopper was spying on the NSO, proof should have been offered and he would've been kicked immediately from CDC. NSO's concerns were brought to TOOL and Graham informed me. At the end of our conversation, as you can see above, Graham stated that he would ask for evidence of the allegation.

The only thing i see is NSO being pissed with me for opposing their methods and leaving the alliance after stating my reasons in my resignation thread. Then the issue with 2 of their members flaming me for creating the CDS, which subsequently led to Bart getting a warn after I asked him to stop and he refused, followed by him attempting to get me a warn, which failed. However, I did change the name of the alliance to avoid future conflict.

Hilltopper was considered a spy by the NPO. He swore to me that it wasn't him, but either way, after he re-rolled, it shouldn't have been an issue. He came to the NSO on my invitation while I was a member there, and then followed me to CDC.

Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Even if NSO were to offer screenshots and proof, which I doubt they can, this should have never been handled this way. They never gave me a chance to deal with the issue, if there was even an issue to begin with.

This is a classic case of a more powerful alliance bullying someone who has pissed them off. I hope their are just alliances out there that will see that Ivan is not a God and his tyranny and that of his alliance should be punished.

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If hilltopper was spying on the NSO, proof should have been offered and he would've been kicked immediately from CDC. NSO's concerns were brought to TOOL and Graham informed me. At the end of our conversation, as you can see above, Graham stated that he would ask for evidence of the allegation.

Why should he be kicked if he's a spy? You're all in the alliance knowing that if one nation $%&@s it up everyone else has to pay the price.

The only thing i see is NSO being pissed with me for opposing their methods and leaving the alliance after stating my reasons in my resignation thread. Then the issue with 2 of their members flaming me for creating the CDS, which subsequently led to Bart getting a warn after I asked him to stop and he refused, followed by him attempting to get me a warn, which failed. However, I did change the name of the alliance to avoid future conflict.

Because two members, none of whom have any power in the alliance, got mad at you for an acronym you think that we wanted to roll your alliance? I can see your logic.. :rolleyes:

Hilltopper was considered a spy by the NPO. He swore to me that it wasn't him, but either way, after he re-rolled, it shouldn't have been an issue. He came to the NSO on my invitation while I was a member there, and then followed me to CDC.

People don't lie either, right?

Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Even if NSO were to offer screenshots and proof, which I doubt they can, this should have never been handled this way. They never gave me a chance to deal with the issue, if there was even an issue to begin with.

Yet again, why should you have to "deal" with the issue? You admitted yourself you invited him in, and then he followed you when you left. You dealt with it by giving him access to the boards in the first place. The alliance pays for the mistakes of its members.

This is a classic case of a more powerful alliance bullying someone who has pissed them off. I hope their are just alliances out there that will see that Ivan is not a God and his tyranny and that of his alliance should be punished.

I :wub: you too.

I seriously don't know how I'm supposed to take a screenshot of somebody taking a screenshot of our forums. Apparently, Ivan has proof and that's good enough for me. If you ask kindly, I'm sure you'll get it.

And on that note, I'm leaving this conversation to let better diplomats do their jobs.

Edited by Sargun
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Interesting. TOOL it would appear you protect them, are you going to stand up and honour your agreement or submit to Ivan?

EDIT: Btw I'm just going by the proof they've got in this thread, meh, I'm probably wrong though.

Edited by TheStig
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A whole lot of whining in the OP. I can't be the only person who doesn't care at all about your completely mundane story about intenal drama in NSO, or fails to see any real relevance to the supposed spying. You made a mistake by befriending someone stupid enough to join Blackstone Collusion, you should be glad you are only getting attacked for 1 week.

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This is a classic case of a more powerful alliance bullying someone who has pissed them off. I hope their are just alliances out there that will see that Ivan is not a God and his tyranny and that of his alliance should be punished.

Gabe, with your posts you make me remember the GWII days. Ivan isnt God, but he is the Dark lord. ;)

Gabe, we have already supplied evidence to involved parties and certain persons. Its water tight, you should be grateful the dark lord showed mercy as in letting you off after a week. Ivan isnt normally very merciful, it would be foolish to forget that...

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Gabe, we have already supplied evidence to involved parties and certain persons. Its water tight...

If you're accusing a member of my alliance of being a spy and declaring on us because of it, don't you think I would be an involved party? Yes, I am responsible for the actions of my members, but if I have been supplied no evidence of any wrongdoing by one of my members, how I can have an opportunity to handle it? You're going to have to do better than that.

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There goes the neighborhood. I would say something like "private channels ftw" but this is too entertaining.

I doubt TOOL would go up on the NSO diplomatic or otherwise without something more solid to lean on. And even then, it would still be a variable as to how it would be handled. :/

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If you're accusing a member of my alliance of being a spy and declaring on us because of it, don't you think I would be an involved party? Yes, I am responsible for the actions of my members, but if I have been supplied no evidence of any wrongdoing by one of my members, how I can have an opportunity to handle it? You're going to have to do better than that.

Because having you say "FAKE" to logs, screens, or anything else is really going to make things better?

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Maybe I missed it in your OP, but the summary of your defense is that Hilltopper didn't spy because you know him and don't believe he would do such a thing? That's not much of a defense, dude.

On the other hand, NSO does lack any sort of evidence or proof to support their CB, so it boils down to a match of words, and in a case like this the onus is on the accuser to prove their case.

Have fun.

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The war is one !@#$@#$ week. Get over it. Shutup and fight. I'd be happy if I were you. Now hold on guys and I'll post up the proof.

edit:

Maybe I missed it in your OP, but the summary of your defense is that Hilltopper didn't spy because you know him and don't believe he would do such a thing? That's not much of a defense, dude.

On the other hand, NSO does lack any sort of evidence or proof to support their CB, so it boils down to a match of words, and in a case like this the onus is on the accuser to prove their case.

Have fun.

Hizzy knows what he's talking about. CN is too caught up on calling other people liars, because people didn't offer proof at first sight.

Edited by youwish959
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The war is one !@#$@#$ week. Get over it. Shutup and fight. I'd be happy if I were you. Now hold on guys and I'll post up the proof.

Unfortunately, "it's just one week" is not justification. It's bullying.

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Hilltopper was considered a spy by the NPO. He swore to me that it wasn't him, but either way, after he re-rolled, it shouldn't have been an issue. He came to the NSO on my invitation while I was a member there, and then followed me to CDC.

That is really no proof of...well anything. And yes he has re-rolled, thusly he won't be attacked for his previous mistakes. However, it does not erase that he has made such mistakes before (if he lied to you of course, which he might not have). In regards to somebody spying now, I will be more likely to believe it if he has done it in the past, re-roll or no. This does not mean I will punish him for his last actions, but I will damn well take them into account.

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