RandomInterrupt Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I believe Penguin choose a poor wording there. ES always played CN as a war game, not a political one where everyone displays a huge !@#$ eating grin at all time and they all get along greatly because it's safe. ES fought for more than that a safety that compromises pretty much anything with no other real purpose.Now you could argue that his methods were exaggerated at time, true, i still think he is a great player. And an entertaining one while he's at it, which is quite rare :lol: The problem here isn't just related to Sponge. So many people are made out to be a stereotype, or a parody, when that is not the case. If you look at the period of Sponge's first (and very long) reign, you'll see wars yes. However most of that time was in peace. Even comparing us to other alliances who were active during this time period, you'll see many such as the NPO, who were far more warlike. Polar did what it needed to in order to survive, protect itself, and prosper. He was our leader. He accomplished all three things via various methods including but not limited to war. There is a difference between constantly striving for and endorsing war and using war when it is the best option. It is a difference that I saw being covered up in Penguin's post. Also to those who have stated that Sponge "did not change". None of us can know that one way or another. People do change. We should remember that he did leave the game for quite a while, and his return was slow and measured. It wasn't like he left one day, then came back the next with a whole new philosophy. I had a similar experience myself after I left Polar. I spent a few weeks unaligned, and then went and retired with my friends in Genesis. I used that time initially to do a lot of thinking. Over a few months my attitude changed quite a bit, as noticed by my close friends within CN. When you take yourself out of your normal and established environment, you have to adapt. Some adapt by creating their old environment and others adapt in a new way. It is not a stretch to assume that on his sabatical, like mine, he looked at things a new way and returned to the game proper with new ideas as to how things should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) So, can anyone articulate exactly why it is I should care if sponge has "changed" himself? Even if Electron Sponge is a power hungry devil man, that doesn't make his posts or the Tattler any less interesting or entertaining. Edited April 10, 2009 by heggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) Sponge is so vain he probably thinks this thread is about him. That said, all the criticism does seem nonsensical. I've never seen anyone who appreciates ES's efforts in Vox claim that he has some kind of moral superiority. As long as he's an effective member I don't see what Vox stands to lose by welcoming him in. The Tattler is one of the most interesting initiatives we've seen in...well, a long time. Edited April 10, 2009 by Prodigal Moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agafaba Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 It doesnt change who sponge was and continues to be. Some Vox members have similar segments of their histories, this in no way makes them the same. Sponge joined Vox after his down fall and the people i think you are comparing him with put their nations, positions in their respective alliances and friends on the line to oppose what they saw as an evil empire. The fact they were all in similar positions of power within similar alliances says nothing about how they got to where they are now. I see no evidence of change or remorse unlike some of the people you see as similar to sponge. Didnt sponge and Doitzel post their threads against what they saw as an evil empire at about the same time. Granted Sponge lasted a lot longer then Doitzel did but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) I'm resigned to the fact that no matter what we do, Electron Sponge will be there to tell us all why we're evil and morally wrong for doing it. Edited April 10, 2009 by James Dahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I heard Sponge fought a pack of badgers at a Black Sabbath concert once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski11585 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I've heard Sponge is all about alcohol and revenge. Or is that Alvis. Is there a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycurgus Rex Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I heard Sponge fought a pack of badgers at a Black Sabbath concert once. I heard they were bears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I've heard Sponge is all about alcohol and revenge.Or is that Alvis. Is there a difference? He killed for our sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I heard they were bears Dragons, even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycurgus Rex Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Electron Sponge=The Cyberverse's version of Chuck Norris and Vin Diesel combined into one human form, just more handsome though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segovia Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Sponge is the love child of Mr. T and Chuck Norris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neboe Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I believe Penguin choose a poor wording there. ES always played CN as a war game, not a political one where everyone displays a huge !@#$ eating grin at all time and they all get along greatly because it's safe. ES fought for more than that a safety that compromises pretty much anything with no other real purpose. Having personally gone from a highly antogonistic relationship to sitting across the negotiating table to being a trusted ally to being a meer respected acquaintance I will disagree with your simple statement that Sponge-boy does not play a political game. To the contrary Sponge-boy plays a highly political game and probably more adept at it than anyone in the game, even Ivan. Your final statement actually supports this premise. While most alliance leaders are caught up in protection, Sponge-boy, Ivan and to a bt of a lesser extent Dibler separate themselves from this fodder by their drive and actions to put their alliances at a position of hegemony. This fight for more than safety does not mean Sponge-boy approaches from a war versus political space at all. To become hegemony in CN one must play the political game not just the war game. Unrelated to uaciaut's post now, I'm not sure I follow the need for people to claim Sponge-boy hasn't changed. So what if he hasn't changed? What is significant about his past that prevents him from being effective in his new chosen role even if his deeply rooted philosophy has not changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Tolkien Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Scratch Chuck Norris and insert Bruce Lee, and you have it right, because Bruce Lee is infinitely more awesome then Chuck Norris (in part because he actually killed Chuck Norris). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jphillips412 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Electron Sponge=The Cyberverse's version of Chuck Norris and Vin Diesel combined into one human form, just more handsome though... Totally sigging this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaciaut Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) Having personally gone from a highly antogonistic relationship to sitting across the negotiating table to being a trusted ally to being a meer respected acquaintance I will disagree with your simple statement that Sponge-boy does not play a political game. To the contrary Sponge-boy plays a highly political game and probably more adept at it than anyone in the game, even Ivan. Your final statement actually supports this premise. While most alliance leaders are caught up in protection, Sponge-boy, Ivan and to a bt of a lesser extent Dibler separate themselves from this fodder by their drive and actions to put their alliances at a position of hegemony. This fight for more than safety does not mean Sponge-boy approaches from a war versus political space at all. To become hegemony in CN one must play the political game not just the war game. I was reffering to what is seen as diplomacy in today's CN which is quite different from how politics were played (or seemed to be, i'm quite new in the game compared to the yourself and those you mentioned ). And i'm not sure if i agree with you putting Dilber on that list. I think he actively worked towards creating a political climate that maintained NPO in a safe position and stopped there while accepting all possible and acceptable compromises. I don't think either ES or Ivan would have stopped there, they were more leaders than politicians (not diminishing the value of the second here though) and would have worked actively towards minimizing the level of compromise they had to go through will ensuring they were safe. Edit: this is speculation though, apology if i offended any of the people i named through my assumptions D: Also i lol'ed at the second part of your post. Logic works in mysterious ways >.> Edited April 10, 2009 by uaciaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) And i'm not sure if i agree with you putting Dilber on that list. I think he actively worked towards creating a political climate that maintained NPO in a safe position and stopped there while accepting all possible and acceptable compromises. I don't think either ES or Ivan would have stopped there, they were more leaders than politicians (not diminishing the value of the second here though) and would have worked actively towards minimizing the level of compromise they had to go through will ensuring they were safe.I love this post because its true.An example of this would be Ivan poking GATO, and Legion after PWII, and Sponge poking GOONS and \m/ after GWIII. Edited April 11, 2009 by Fallen_Fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neboe Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 You make a good point about Dibler, and I thought a bit before adding him to the list. I chose to do so based on his efforts following the Great Stupidity to get the NPO back into a position of hegemony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) Unrelated to uaciaut's post now, I'm not sure I follow the need for people to claim Sponge-boy hasn't changed. So what if he hasn't changed? What is significant about his past that prevents him from being effective in his new chosen role even if his deeply rooted philosophy has not changed? And here, for almost the same reason, I was confused at the need for people to claim that Sponge had changed in order to accept him. Is it that they cannot fathom they were mistaken about his character or motives in the first place? What psychological trickery is this that makes it easier for the mind to see changes in others when those changes are in fact a product of their own shifting perspective? Edited April 10, 2009 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOONS Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Electron Sponge=The Cyberverse's version of Chuck Norris and Vin Diesel combined into one human form, just more handsome though... Best fun I had all day with out laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (edited) ... The only reason he does not have his jack boot on someones neck right now is because he lost his personal army. He is obviously trying to bring down the hegemony to give him an out and a chance to regain some of the power he lost.... Isn't that what we are all trying to do? I've been polishing my jack boots for some time now just waiting for a weakling's neck. And you probably are, too. Edited April 10, 2009 by Kzoppistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epiphanus Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I couldn't care less whether or not my opinion "matters" to the rabble of fine gentleman that frequent the owf.Also could your nose get covered in any more fecal matter belonging to Sponge? I'm suprised you can read the forums with your nose buried so deep up there. I see what you did there )): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reachwind Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 There is no chin under Electron Sponge's beard. There is only another beard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 And here, for almost the same reason, I was confused at the need for people to claim that Sponge had changed in order to accept him. Is it that they cannot fathom they were mistaken about his character or motives in the first place? What psychological trickery is this that makes it easier for the mind to see changes in others when those changes are in fact a product of their own shifting perspective? Quoted for truthiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segovia Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 ES can kill two stones with one bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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