Vladimir Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Polaris is not an ally of TOP, by any stretch of the imagination. Your emperor has shown repeated hostility towards us, up to and including threats of destruction. I'll quote one of these for you (link):QUOTE (electron sponge) Guess what? You won yourself a ticket onto my bad side! In case you aren't familiar with my bad side, that's where nations and alliances go to die. (That is, unless they are smart and find a way out.) This was done in public, in our elections announcement thread, without any dialogue in private. Actions have consequences, and your alliance is not exempt from that fact. Honestly, even YOU knew plenty to come to conclusions such as 'ES is working against NPO allies'. It is beyond me too; we have indeed repeatedly asked him to quit it, yet he has after our initial complaints called us stat whores and all that.[...] There was no lack of communication. There was a lack of desire on ES' part to cease his repeated trolling and veiled insults against TOP and TOP allies, despite being asked to multiple times. How it cannot be worked out is indeed beyond me, but here we are clearly at a point where it hasn't been worked out for reasons we know, and reasons you once knew too. You conveniently left out the fact that ES and your comrades continiously brought up and trolled TOP over that same "UJW related skullduggery" for many months to come while TOPers remained disciplined, showed restraint, and remained silent. For proof of this, you need to look no further then any TOP announcement posted on the forums. So it was ES who persued such grudges, often for his own personal amusement and ulterior goals of undermining Pacifica and it's allies. TOP honestly had little interest in the NpO, until these events took place and were pushed by the NpO leadership as an agressive foreign policy on a continual and gradual basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall14 Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I was waiting for this quote a mile away; agreed. If I ever get bored with the game, I'm joining FAN - that's the only classy thing to do. Amen Brother...FREE FAN... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Vladimir:We've always been (falsely) accused of 'diplomatic trickery' -- why do you think GATO and Legion turned against us? That would be the near complete lack of respect and friendship the NPO showed to GATO every chance it got. You only allied with us so we could help you in wars and when that stopped happening (say around the time you failed to convince us and the Legion to help you destroy the GGA and others in a midnight blitz over a single 'what if' GGA form post) you turned against us, ended one of the most important treaties of the era and then worked for the next couple of years until you had so totally defeated us that we had no real choice but to sign our entire alliance over to your control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animea90 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 No, the basic argument you're encountering, is let your old grudges go and stop forcing players out of the game, this type of mentally is making your alliance look bad, and just lost you a treaty partner not even 4 hours ago, so I'd think the whole "we don't care about public opinion" party line, even if not stated publicly, has seemed to be changing, looking over at Mr. Brookbank at least. Well guys its time to pack up and go home, Mogar has won the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animea90 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I would like to request to both Vlad and Electron that you stop posting off topic. I really like the purpose of this thread and would rather a mod not lock it for being off topic. OWF has a thread right now about ES and the OoO cancelation can probably go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asriel Belacqua Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Well guys its time to pack up and go home, Mogar has won the thread. I would like to request to both Vlad and Electron that you stop posting off topic. I really like the purpose of this thread and would rather a mod not lock it for being off topic. OWF has a thread right now about ES and the OoO cancelation can probably go there. I'd have to agree with this man in both of his posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rahl Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I'm sorry but a world where you're free to hound nations into total nonexistence isn't free and nobody's going to shed a tear when good warmongering alliances like Valhalla are oh so cruelly barred from starting wars for no particular reason or sentencing players to EZI in the horrible oppressive new world. I mean, if I can't enslave or murder people as I wish, am I really being oppressed? Your answer seems like it would be "yes" if you're going to get your panties in a bunch over people telling you you're no longer free to engage in repressive tactics as you wish. I don't recall ever warmongering, hounding any nations or oppressing anyone. Just being in Valhalla doesn't mean I do or have done any of those things. yet the only argument I ever hear is "Oh, you're in Valhalla so you can't have an opinion other than what we think Valhallans should have." I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in the arguments against the NPO. You, the collective you, that want NPO to fall so that Bob can be a "better" place will just end up doing exactly what people say the NPO does now. That is, tell others how to rule on Bob. It doesn't matter if those people believe that their side is morally right or not, all that matters is that you are telling others what to do, while claiming to fight against those that are telling others what to do. Bah. Maybe I'm just breaking things down to too simple a level of analysis. Idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Well guys its time to pack up and go home, Mogar has won the thread. I would like to request to both Vlad and Electron that you stop posting off topic. I really like the purpose of this thread and would rather a mod not lock it for being off topic. OWF has a thread right now about ES and the OoO cancelation can probably go there. If Mogar won the thread and we should all pack up and go home, what difference does it make if mods lock it or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in the arguments against the NPO. You, the collective you, that want NPO to fall so that Bob can be a "better" place will just end up doing exactly what people say the NPO does now. That is, tell others how to rule on Bob. It doesn't matter if those people believe that their side is morally right or not, all that matters is that you are telling others what to do, while claiming to fight against those that are telling others what to do. Bah. Maybe I'm just breaking things down to too simple a level of analysis. Idk. I've already pointed out the flaw in your logic, to which I did not see a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I don't recall ever warmongering, hounding any nations or oppressing anyone. Just being in Valhalla doesn't mean I do or have done any of those things. yet the only argument I ever hear is "Oh, you're in Valhalla so you can't have an opinion other than what we think Valhallans should have." I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in the arguments against the NPO. You, the collective you, that want NPO to fall so that Bob can be a "better" place will just end up doing exactly what people say the NPO does now. That is, tell others how to rule on Bob. It doesn't matter if those people believe that their side is morally right or not, all that matters is that you are telling others what to do, while claiming to fight against those that are telling others what to do. Bah. Maybe I'm just breaking things down to too simple a level of analysis. Idk. No, I don't think CN without NPO will keep alliances in wars for years on end. Good try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Please stop holding old grudges and "IG banning (Eternal ZI sentence)" players that have already taken some serious damages. Besides, those pixels are replaceable, but interesting players are not. I don't mind losing some pixels as long as I am not purposely forcing other players to leave the game. Sure, forcing out all of your enemies may seem like a good idea because you won't lose pixels, but then the game stagnates and then you begin to lose players due to boredom. A lose-lose situation. No, the basic argument you're encountering, is let your old grudges go and stop forcing players out of the game, this type of mentally is making your alliance look bad, and just lost you a treaty partner not even 4 hours ago, so I'd think the whole "we don't care about public opinion" party line, even if not stated publicly, has seemed to be changing, looking over at Mr. Brookbank at least. An epic win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruthenia Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) I don't recall ever warmongering, hounding any nations or oppressing anyone. Just being in Valhalla doesn't mean I do or have done any of those things. yet the only argument I ever hear is "Oh, you're in Valhalla so you can't have an opinion other than what we think Valhallans should have." I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy inherent in the arguments against the NPO. You, the collective you, that want NPO to fall so that Bob can be a "better" place will just end up doing exactly what people say the NPO does now. That is, tell others how to rule on Bob. It doesn't matter if those people believe that their side is morally right or not, all that matters is that you are telling others what to do, while claiming to fight against those that are telling others what to do. Bah. Maybe I'm just breaking things down to too simple a level of analysis. Idk. You're basically assuming an equivalence between saying "hey, get the hell out of existence" and "hey, you can't hound a nation into utter oblivion" which should be pretty obviously stupid to anybody who actually puts the thought into something necessary to assign differing weights to different things. Now, which is a greater infringement of self-determination: denial of the right to exist, or denying others the ability to decide which nations exist? I think the answer is pretty obviously the former, as denial of the right to exist is a complete denial of all freedom, while the latter is much less of an infringement on anybody's freedom. And if you're going to be in an alliance, to the outside world you're implicitly supporting the policies and actions of your alliance by your mere membership. If you want to claim there's some divergence in your views and the practices of your alliance, fine, delineate them, but until you publicly break with your alliance in such a fashion own up to your alliance affiliation and don't cry about your poor misunderstood self. EDIT: editing the quote I'm replying to in as I didn't count on several new replies coming in between my post and the one I replied to Edited April 12, 2009 by Matthew George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris of Khi Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Bah. Maybe I'm just breaking things down to too simple a level of analysis. Idk. Fun Fact: Being condescending will not help you sway the oppositions stance in any intellectual debate. Prrobably should avoid that in the future... THE MORE YOU KNOW! P.S. - I understand the hypocrisy of me condescending on one who condescends (just don't tell them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graves Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Takes balls of steel to threaten an alliance 1/20th your size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad JuJu Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Ya know, I love CN 2009 edition. There used to be a day where I had to work these forums day and night, typing my fingers to bloody stumps trying to rally the average man to come to FAN's defense. Trying to point out how NPO is using them. Pointing out the continuous stream of lies coming from NPO. I don't have to do it anymore. Even NPO's "allies" see them for what they are now. Nowadays, me and the missus enjoy sitting back and watching NPO's years of public opinion gains crumble into nothingness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animea90 Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I don't recall ever warmongering, hounding any nations or oppressing anyone. Just being in Valhalla doesn't mean I do or have done any of those things. yet the only argument I ever hear is "Oh, you're in Valhalla so you can't have an opinion other than what we think Valhallans should have." Being in Valhalla means you at least passively support the policies of your alliance. You may not be directly inacting any policies, but you are helping provide the strength behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 No, I don't think CN without NPO will keep alliances in wars for years on end. Good try though. Assuming you're talking about FAN, there are 7 alliances at war with them. This tendency for everyone to focus on NPO's involvement to the exclusion of all others baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Assuming you're talking about FAN, there are 7 alliances at war with them.This tendency for everyone to focus on NPO's involvement to the exclusion of all others baffles me. You have to be kidding me? Any discussion about FAN, and NPO are there: they are more involved than the other alliances. The grunts make hilarious peace mode jokes, the faux-intellects spew unfounded nonsense (every discussion wields a bizarre new justification for the continued action against FAN, each one being less rational than the last - for a fun game follow the threads and try to catch 'em all!) over and over in an attempt to legitimate what their alliance is doing, and the leaders show maturity with comments like 'go die' or 'FAN should come out and fight, then they can have peace'. Can you say the same about the other alliances at war with FAN? I know that you like to defend your allies in the NPO, but please do not do it at the expense of the facts. Edited April 12, 2009 by Aimee Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James IV Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 I would like to request to both Vlad and Electron that you stop posting off topic. I really like the purpose of this thread and would rather a mod not lock it for being off topic. OWF has a thread right now about ES and the OoO cancelation can probably go there. I'm afraid Mr. Sponge is far too handsome for one thread good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Assuming you're talking about FAN, there are 7 alliances at war with them.This tendency for everyone to focus on NPO's involvement to the exclusion of all others baffles me. so if NPO gave them white peace right now, the rest wouldn't follow suit within 24 hours? really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 so if NPO gave them white peace right now, the rest wouldn't follow suit within 24 hours? really? Good luck getting them to answer that question. However, NPO gave JB peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 What are the other 6 alliances at war with FAN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad JuJu Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Assuming you're talking about FAN, there are 7 alliances at war with them.This tendency for everyone to focus on NPO's involvement to the exclusion of all others baffles me. I can say that as a fact there are multiple alliances who we are currently at war with who have said that they will give us peace if it were not for our continuing war with NPO. They wont give us peace, which they have said they would like to do, until NPO does. So focusing on NPO's involvement shouldn't "baffle" you. They are the only alliance who is driving this. They are exerting pressure on the leadership of the 6 other alliances to continue the war. Even those alliances members don't want the war but the leadership of many of those alliances are more beholden to NPO than their own members. Edited April 12, 2009 by Bad JuJu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad JuJu Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 What are the other 6 alliances at war with FAN? TPF, IRON, MHA, Valhalla and a few others I dont remember. Peanut gallery, help me out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 TPF, IRON, MHA, Valhalla and a few others I dont remember. Peanut gallery, help me out here. GGA, for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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