Moo told me he's giving peace to FAN

[Beauty]

Are you referring to the NAP made by FAN with NAAC? Im sure NAAC would have been fun to play with, Unfortunatly i came in here after Great War 3. Maybe FAN didnt want to be a puppet and only allied to Initiative alliances..

EDIT: Maybe FAN was just trying to help gain peace in Great War 3, Without forcing alliances to leave the game like SOMEONE is trying to do with FAN.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Rotavele

[Vladimir]

First off, FAN fought admirably for our side in the Second Great War, and were undertaking unconventional operations during the entire antebellum period in order to help ensure our eventual victory. Far from them needing NPO's resources, they were a resource for NPO giving advice to the very inept NPO military from that period in time and fighting their own wars without any help from the Order at all. They correctly perceived the inequalities in the relationship between themselves and NPO and decided that the world would probably be a better place if the Orders were taken down a few pegs. The only people who were using the Initiative as a meat shield were in NPO. That was the whole point of the Initiative. Your previous statement is blatantly false because as you were an Imperial Officer at the time you should very well know the truth of the situation, and you have misrepresented it in its entirety here. Since I care exactly zero for your extra 10 points I will add that I am both handsome and charming, and that I am very popular with the ladies.

So which is it, Vlad? Are you an idiot or a liar?

I never said that they didn't want our side to win the great wars -- it was their side too! I said they were trying to undermine everyone else on their side to advance their relative position within it. This isn't much of a claim since FAN admitted it at a more honest stage in their downfall -- before they began trying to court the OWF moralists and opportunists.

FAN didn't have any presence in the NPO's military. FAN's military, on the other hand, was created by NPO advisers and funding. That isn't to say that they didn't develop reasonably well themselves, but FAN's military reputation was a result of tactical Initiative propaganda and little else.

So FAN saw that they were weaker than the Order and decided that they wanted to be stronger, resulting in numerous plans to damage us. You can try and spin it as some holy crusade of the little guy, but it's still factually the same as what I said, and personally I don't think playing the underdog card make their position a legitimate one (nor, I expect, would any alliance today that has weaker allies, and indeed, nor did they -- Mpol [FAN leader, now banned] was quite frank in saying that we were correct to attack them).

Are you referring to the NAP made by FAN with NAAC? Im sure NAAC would have been fun to play with, Unfortunatly i came in here after Great War 3. Maybe FAN didnt want to be a puppet and only allied to Initiative alliances..

EDIT: Maybe FAN was just trying to help gain peace in Great War 3, Without forcing alliances to leave the game like SOMEONE is trying to do with FAN.

There are some times when you should just admit that you made a mistake; this is one of them. FAN made a 'secret NAP' with NAAC during the war, explicitly suggesting that NAAC should use their additional capacity to attack other Initiative alliances. By their own confession it had nothing to do with a moral crusade against being a puppet (which they most certainly were not) or keeping other alliances in the game (if you ever saw FAN at the height of their game I suspect you would have been horrified), but rather it was a strategic play to bring their allies down and advance their own strength.

Ironically FAN would have no hesitation about destroying most FAN supporters for no reason whatsoever, and their only political justification would be a mocking laughter. You're living in a dream land if you think they share, or ever shared, your political positions.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Vladimir

[evil uncle tom]

IMHO, FAN deserves peace.

Yes, I was in FAN, and the guys are a great bunch of gun nuts. I was around when FAN was growing, yes FAN liked war, hence playing a game where war is a option. FAN was much like the trunk monkey, hey, attack this guy. Everyone has a different story and point of view on how things turned on FAN. I was in the war during the supposedly NAAC secret pact. I fought many NAAC nations that where fun. I never knew of a secret peace treaty.

I was never aware of NoV being a protectorate either. During the attack, is when I was told they where. FAN may not have had the best diplomacy in the game,( it is still a game right?), but they played it well.

I left the alliance as R/L called. I came back and was sitting in peace mode, I was attacked by a Molon Labe rogue nation and even nuked. Did I get any help from my protectors, no, I did not. I resigned from the alliance, so I could fight back. I have not returned since. Molon did help and I rebuilt.

TOP accepted me and has been a great home. With all the hard feelings and the drama I might be at risk of getting attacked because I spoke my mind. So, I think we all need to go on. If FAN in others opion are not threats, or cowards,etc why keep them down? No alliance in this game would still be together if they faced the odds that FAN has faced. Those that say come out of peace mode, only want to continue the beat down, IMHO.

Many other alliances had CB for the war, spied ,etc. They got peace.

So, I guess I am trying to say the people of my nation wish to see a free FAN that has the chance to grow and rebuild without having 5-50 times the NS declaring on them for whatever reason.

My statement does not speak for my alliance in any way.

[Skippy1]

Moo, I have a hell of a lot of respect for you, but there is absolutely no IC reason for this silliness to continue. NPO is making FAN into a bogeyman and giving those that oppose NPO a rally point and argument for resistance to NPO and its allies. Left to its own devices and out from threat of death, FAN would IMHO, slowly fade away. Many of those left only stick around because NPO says they can't.

Why would anyone respect Moo? He is nothing put a !@#$%. During the big wars he always went into peace mode.

[Skippy1]

Its been WAAAAY too long for this war, And NPO is only losing respect for it. Basically your achieving nothing in the VietFAN 2 except you keep losing respect because your forcing 70+ players to just stay in a peace mode and take a beating if they get out, and to think FAN would have once went to 0 infra and back to defend you and you attack them for a few low leveled nations having more then 20% of soldiers? This is why Pacifica has the reputation it does today. This is also why their is a Vox Populi and a Blackstone. Even now you still have the chance to give them peace and gain respect from the CN community. I myself, would definatly respect you alot more for letting them have peace. Also if you gave them peace eventually they'd be your friends again sometime. I mean look at Mushroom Kingdom, You two went to Nuclear war and now youve signed a Peace, Intelligence, and Aid Treaty. It is time for FAN to be free, Because too many people have been forced to leave or go to peace mode and eventually die out because you want a new yellow puppet state.

It's like watching High School kids beating up 5th graders, while the rest of CN stands by and chants "hail Moo".

Edited April 11, 2009 by Skippy

[He Who Has No Name]

Look at the lies, wild stories, and organic fertilizer pouring out of my mouth! Look at me!

Vladimir, for a long time, I thought any given person only had one choice between two options: they could choose to ignore the first-hand truth from people who were there and saw it themselves while they tried laughably to rewrite history, or they could become even more irrelevant by transparently spewing wild stories of cloak-and-dagger realpolitik to try and scare the unimpressed kiddie alliances into desired behavior.

You have somehow found a way to do both simultaneously. Bless you.

Now, shaddup, get the hell off the soapbox and give it back. I have a lightbulb in the stairwell I need to change, and you're not accomplishing anything worthwhile. Again.

Edited April 11, 2009 by He Who Has No Name

[atrophis]

The Third Great War is early because it marked the victory of The Initiative, and as such demonstrates that for the entire Initiative hegemony you were actively acting against us [the Order and the rest of The Initiative]. Of course, you were actively against us from before that, you just required our resources (economic, political, diplomatic and military) to clear the way for your would-be rise to the top. In that much the situation is reversed: FAN saw us (and the rest of The Initiative as later demonstrated) as meat-shields; they were just too incompetent to capitalise on their world-view.

In any case, the point was that Rotavele's view of the world back then is quite ridiculous, a point on which I doubt either of us could honestly disagree.

Wow, you must have started drinking your own kool-aid or you decided to pick up the crack pipe. I'll leave it to you to tell me which is the correct answer. In any case, unless you have proof of any of that drivel you just spewed, it's best you not even speak it.

[Starfox101]

The argument that FAN was a traitor to the Initiative and deserved to be attacked because they made a secret NAP is ridiculous. In the Second Great War, we in >_< made a secret peace with LUE. The entire government knew of it and approved it. It was never brought up or mentioned because NPO was not CB searching us like they were with FAN. NPO are just oppurtunists who live by the double standard.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Starfox101

[Vladimir]

*He Who Has No Name and Atrophis Play: Character Assassination*

*Hit: 20 damage*

*Vladimir Plays: Edited Quote*

Nu uh

Yu huh!

The argument that FAN was a traitor to the Initiative and deserved to be attacked because they made a secret NAP is ridiculous. In the Second Great War, we in >_< made a secret peace with LUE. The entire government knew of it and approved it. It was never brought up or mentioned because NPO was not CB searching us like they FAN. NPO are just oppurtunists who live by the double standard.

Thanks for sharing. But in any case, the secret NAP wasn't used in our CB, so your point is void before it begins.

[atrophis]

*He Who Has No Name and Atrophis Play: Character Assassination*

*Hit: 20 damage*

*Vladimir Plays: Edited Quote*

Yu huh!

Thanks for sharing. But in any case, the secret NAP wasn't used in our CB, so your point is void before it begins.

Your right, you don't have to answer me, because you have no proof. It's better that way.

[He Who Has No Name]

*He Who Has No Name and Atrophis Play: Character Assassination*

*Hit: 20 damage*

*Vladimir Plays: Edited Quote*

Nu uh

Yu huh!

*He Who Has No Name Plays: You Don't Really Have Any Argument, Do You?*

*He Who Has No Name Plays a COMBO: And You Didn't Provide A Shred Of Support For Your Original 'Argument', Either*

*Vladimir is at -13 HP*

Edited April 11, 2009 by He Who Has No Name

[Vladimir]

So when I say 'maybe FAN saw us as meat-shields' and then provide documented facts for this statement (such as the secret NAP in GW3), I'm not providing evidence. But when you say 'the NPO saw us as meat-shields and abused us' and provide nothing (while I provide evidence to the contrary such as our ongoing building aid), you don't have to provide evidence because your position is somehow inherently true because you said it? I'm sorry, but your word is not the default truth in every situation; the burden of proof is therefore not on 'everyone but me'.

If you are looking for me to provide a quote where FAN sits around laughing as they plot the downfall of their allies in a public forum, you're going to be disappointed. What I have done is provide a theory of historical development and facts to support that theory -- bearing in mind that my intervention only sought to dispel the myth that 'FAN would have gone to 0 infrastructure to defend the NPO', I think I have accomplished my goal quite successfully. What you've done is make an assertion that FAN was nice and cuddly while the NPO was evil blood-drinking maniacs, not only providing no facts to support this theory, but actually standing in direct contradiction to the established facts that have been presented.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Vladimir

[atrophis]

If you are looking for me to provide a quote where FAN sits around laughing as they plot the downfall of their allies in a public forum, you're going to be disappointed. What I have done is provide a theory of historical development and facts to support that theory -- bearing in mind that my intervention only sought to dispel the myth that 'FAN would have gone to 0 infrastructure to defend the NPO', I think I have accomplished my goal quite successfully. What you've done is make an assertion that FAN was nice and cuddly while the NPO was evil blood-drinking maniacs, not only providing no facts to support this theory, but actually standing in direct contradiction to the established facts that have been presented.

You know, I actually thought we were done talking about all this mess once we accepted terms from the first war. It's pretty clear to me now that this second war is nothing more than you all throwing a fit, pouting like a bunch of babies. We took terms and entrusted our security with you ending what we thought would be that mess of the past. Clearly, we were wrong. You may resume acting like babies.

Edited April 11, 2009 by atrophis

[Vladimir]

Person A makes claim X

Person B refutes claim X

Person C arrives to call Person B and Alliance D names and make unrelated claim Y

I'm not sure that Person C has really helped to bring closure to the matter here, or that Person B can be blamed for the discussion on claim X. Indeed, I'm sure Person B would be more than happy -- delighted in fact -- to stop refuting claim X if Person A and C would stop trying to claim it.

[ModusOperandi]

They're not all in peace mode, but most of them are, and it is to them Emperor Revenge is referring.

FAN did not abide by the peace terms. You can argue that the terms were harsh and difficult to abide by, but if that is the case then they shouldn't have accepted them in the first place.

NPO abided by the terms of the peace treaty, but not to FAN's "satisfaction". This does not make their failure to abide by the terms acceptable.

FAN did accept the terms offered to them, and then refused to abide by them.

Wow; this is one of the most uneducated posts that I've seen on Bob in a long, long time. I respect your loyalty but it is pretty clear that the NPO hasn't acted honorably in this matter; now, if you were to retain that loyalty in spite of your acceptance that your alliance hasn't acted with sincerity in this regard, that would be a different story.

With that being said, Pacifica has become a laughing-stock with its support of EZI/PZI, alienation of long-serving members, devotion to meaningless but heavy-handed wars, disregard of the OoO and gross diplomatic trickery.

What happened to you guys? I used to respect you in spite of our disagreements but now it is impossible; for shame. I may be just one, lone nation but I'm sure that many in the Cyberverse share these sentiments as well.

Does absolute power corrupt absolutely? It appears so. Unfortunately, you have turned away from all of those strategies which gave you that power in the first-place...

Renaissance anyone?

[Vladimir]

The Order always supported 'Perma-ZI', using it as far back as the start of the Citrus War.

We've always been hated by those whose interests opposed our own -- long-standing members or otherwise.

We've always been (falsely) accused of 'devotion to meaningless but heavy-handed wars' -- as far back as the First Polar War.

Anyone who claims that we 'disregarded the OoO' is clearly grossly ill-informed -- just a day or two ago Electron Sponge stated that he had been actively working to destroy us since mid-2007!

We've always been (falsely) accused of 'diplomatic trickery' -- why do you think GATO and Legion turned against us?

If anything we can stand accused of taking a more laid back, friendly, and less aggressive stance in the world.

As a previous generation may have phrased it, )): nostalgia )):

[Mandrivia_2]

This guy sounds legit, FAN, I'd take their offer.

[WarriorConcept]

FAN's military, on the other hand, was created by NPO advisers and funding. That isn't to say that they didn't develop reasonably well themselves, but FAN's military reputation was a result of tactical Initiative propaganda and little else.

What are you smoking and can I have some?

[Electron Sponge]

The Order always supported 'Perma-ZI', using it as far back as the start of the Citrus War.

Yes and the duration of a policy is a sure sign of its legitimacy as a tactic. Oh, wait, no it's not.

We've always been hated by those whose interests opposed our own -- long-standing members or otherwise.

You mention this like it should be a surprise.

We've always been (falsely) accused of 'devotion to meaningless but heavy-handed wars' -- as far back as the First Polar War.

You mean that war we started because we thought NAAC were a bunch of &#33;@#&#036;%bags and a good, soft first target? The one where our casus belli was that they were breathing our oxygen? The one where we imposed a viceroy on them in our first abortive attempt at imperialism? You're off your game, Vlad.

Anyone who claims that we 'disregarded the OoO' is clearly grossly ill-informed -- just a day or two ago Electron Sponge stated that he had been actively working to destroy us since mid-2007!

Since after NPO tried to overthrow me, you forgot to mention that part.

We've always been (falsely) accused of 'diplomatic trickery' -- why do you think GATO and Legion turned against us?

Because they knew damned well that NPO would turn on them eventually, and NPO was planning to do so even if Ivan jumped into that discussion in #council and said no attack was going to happen. You and I both know that we were intent on revenge.

If anything we can stand accused of taking a more laid back, friendly, and less aggressive stance in the world.

Who are you and what have you done with Vladimir?

[Vladimir]

What are you smoking and can I have some?

Are you kidding? This !@#$'s expensive.

I'm not saying that FAN didn't have a decent military -- they had a lot of nukes, decent organisation, and could have good numbers on at update. But to be as good as we were making them out to be they would have had to have been magic. The constant talking up of FAN as an invincible military force was psyops. That this propaganda entered into Bobian legend doesn't mean it became true.

yadda yadda

If missing the point was an extreme sport, you'd definitely be in a medal position. I was responding to ModusOperandi, who claimed that we did all these things and should be ashamed of it, and then implied that we used to be different, and that these were new policies. I was pointing out that as far as these policies go nothing has changed. So in that regard, yes, it is quite important that our policy on perma-ZI, for example, is an old one. You can go on to take issue with the various policies, or claim that the perceptions of us were justified or unjustified, but really it's all besides the point -- the point is that the policy/perception existed.

That said...

The NAAC war started because they were following us around the forum abusing us, and abusing their forum powers to attack our members. The 'breathing our oxygen' thing was a joke thread -- a tabloid article -- albeit I doubt many of our members would have cared if that were the real reason, such was the atmosphere in those days. I actually gave Moscovy a slap on the wrist for posting that before the real one, since it could be (and still is 3 years later!) misinterpreted. I posted the real declaration myself soon afterwards, which was just as I outlined. The Viceroy was mainly because we thought TheHolyone would just rebuild for war against us if we did otherwise, and since his first act was to create a secret forum and plan rogue nuclear attacks against us, I don't think that we were all that wrong.

Your personal reasoning (imagined or otherwise) for turning against us is irrelevant. I was responding to the idea that we suddenly just picked up and left the NpO out to dry. That we protected the alliance from complete destruction for a year and a half after you made explicit your desire to destroy us (and your desire, in my opinion, was a lot longer lived than that), even after you took it to the OWF, suggests that perhaps ModusOperandi didn't quite grasp the full breadth of the debate.

How could we be intent on revenge before they attacked us? It's cause and effect, not effect and cause. As far as our relations with them beforehand went, they deteriorated without much genuine cause in my opinion. Only just before the Great Patriotic War we had taken a barrage of nukes (back when they really hurt) for Legion against the WSA rogue alliance. Hardly the actions of an alliance that wanted to destroy them.

Who are you and what have you done with Vladimir?

We're a nice lot really... if only you'd give us a chance...

Edited April 11, 2009 by Vladimir

[WarriorConcept]

Are you kidding? This !@#$'s expensive.

We've discovered the secret to Vlad.

[He Who Has No Name]

What are you smoking and can I have some?

Are you kidding? This !@#$'s expensive.

I'm not saying that FAN didn't have a decent military -- they had a lot of nukes, decent organisation, and could have good numbers on at update. But to be as good as we were making them out to be they would have had to have been magic. The constant talking up of FAN as an invincible military force was psyops. That this propaganda entered into Bobian legend doesn't mean it became true.

Let's see - let's go over some of today's fundamental military concepts that FAN INVENTED AND PERFECTED:

- Rapid Quads (the FANpile)

- Advance target designation for different squads

- Bank targeting

- Warchests

- Low-strength fighting and ZI warfare

- Maximum effectiveness of air force units

- Resource optimization for different attacking / defending groups

There's more than half a dozen right there, and those are all pre-VietFAN innovations.

You guys were still doing update rushes with vaguely stratified mass gaggles until we taught you otherwise. In fact, if it wasn't for the EXTREME CHUNK OF CHEESE known as Unimatrix, you would STILL be doing that.

[Electron Sponge]

I'm not saying that FAN didn't have a decent military -- they had a lot of nukes, decent organisation, and could have good numbers on at update. But to be as good as we were making them out to be they would have had to have been magic. The constant talking up of FAN as an invincible military force was psyops. That this propaganda entered into Bobian legend doesn't mean it became true.

They were a damned sight better than the NPO military organization from the same period in time. I'm not sure where you're drawing your memory from but it doesn't seem to be reality. Puff puff pass.

If missing the point was an extreme sport, you'd definitely be in a medal position.

I didn't miss the point at all. I'm simply expanding on areas that I believe need to be addressed. See, we're not obliged to dance to the tune you call.

The NAAC war started because they were following us around the forum abusing us, and abusing their forum powers to attack our members. The 'breathing our oxygen' thing was a joke thread -- a tabloid article -- albeit I doubt many of our members would have cared if that were the real reason, such was the atmosphere in those days. I actually gave Moscovy a slap on the wrist for posting that before the real one, since it could be (and still is 3 years later!) misinterpreted. I posted the real declaration myself soon afterwards, which was just as I outlined. The Viceroy was mainly because we thought TheHolyone would just rebuild for war against us if we did otherwise, and since his first act was to create a secret forum and plan rogue nuclear attacks against us, I don't think that we were all that wrong.

You talk about this like the OOC justification for it was any better than the IC one, which it really wasn't. It was weak. Funny as all hell, but weak. Regarding the viceroy I think you just made my point for me. Thanks.

Your personal reasoning (imagined or otherwise) for turning against us is irrelevant. I was responding to the idea that we suddenly just picked up and left the NpO out to dry. That we protected the alliance from complete destruction for a year and a half after you made explicit your desire to destroy us (and your desire, in my opinion, was a lot longer lived than that), even after you took it to the OWF, suggests that perhaps ModusOperandi didn't quite grasp the full breadth of the debate.

It isn't irrelevant because you made an allusion that I had somehow torn the OoO asunder when you said "Anyone who claims that we 'disregarded the OoO' is clearly grossly ill-informed -- just a day or two ago Electron Sponge stated that he had been actively working to destroy us since mid-2007!". Mid-2007 is when you lot attempted to overthrow me. So, who was disregarding the OoO? You can claim to have been the only thing protecting NpO from complete destruction for a year and a half but that's complete garbage and anyone with even the smallest iota of knowledge about foreign affairs during that period of time knows it. Polar was an alliance that was well able to stand on its own and it took you all that long to poison Polar's relations with its allies in order to isolate and destroy it.

How could we be intent on revenge before they attacked us? It's cause and effect, not effect and cause. As far as our relations with them beforehand went, they deteriorated without much genuine cause in my opinion. Only just before the Great Patriotic War we had taken a barrage of nukes (back when they really hurt) for Legion against the WSA rogue alliance. Hardly the actions of an alliance that wanted to destroy them.

We weren't exactly into just sitting still back then. There were only three things we thought about back then, in the big picture: the last war, the current war, and the next war.

We're a nice lot really... if only you'd give us a chance...

I did for about a year and a half and I'd rather not again.

[Sal Paradise]

we protected the alliance from complete destruction for a year and a half after

If I may ask for clarification on this one small point, from whom were you protecting Polar?

edit: grammar!

Edited April 11, 2009 by Sal Paradise

[Vladimir]

You can claim to have been the only thing protecting NpO from complete destruction for a year and a half but that's complete garbage and anyone with even the smallest iota of knowledge about foreign affairs during that period of time knows it. Polar was an alliance that was well able to stand on its own and it took you all that long to poison Polar's relations with its allies in order to isolate and destroy it.

Now that is by far the boldest (and silliest) attempt to rewrite history that I have ever seen. I'd find it less surprising if I didn't think you actually believed it, Cartman-style. You personally alienated just about every one of your allies (along with everyone else) with your 'my way or the me-yelling-insults-at-you-constantly-in-every-conceivable-thread-and-IRC-channel way'. Just skimming quickly through the OoO cancellation thread alone you can find other alliances making quotes such as the following:

As someone working in tC when much of this is was going on, I can attest that over the past two weeks, Moo and Dilber were very much voices of restraint in favor of Polar. Whenever one of the alliances in tC brought up a grievance with Polar, Moo was quick to state that Polar was our friend and there would be no war. Rather than being encouraged to cancel, we were encouraged to give Polar time.

Considering that the only reason people were keeping treaties with Polar was because Moo and Dilber were supporting keeping them the fact that people would cancel at his suggestion is no suprise.

Moo I know how hard you have worked to prevent this. I know how badly you wanted things to get better and overlook what was going on. I know that the only thing keeping Polar safe as of late has been your dedication to them. Despite ES failed plottings and even greater diplomatic failures you stood by him when others would have fed Polar to the wolves. You have acted with honor and respect for the Ordinance of Order while ES !@#$ all over it and then used it as shield to protect himself from his recent $%&@ ups. When evey voice in the Continuum had finaly has enough of ES you were and Dilber were the voices of support. Well, you gave it your best shot. Sadly ES after a series of huge high profile failures has taked this last desperate action to try and coup the NPO for the second time. He uses his allies and turns on them, even his very closest one it seems. Sorry you were pushed this. NPO has our full support anytime anywhere.

Their have however been dozens of ES indidents. And what you don't seem to understand is that the only thing that has kept others from making ES answer for his actions has been Moo, Dilber and NPO. They have covered for ES screw ups for longer than they had any reason to. Even after he tried to coup Moo, even after ES admitted he was trying to weaken Pacifica, even after NpO managed to piss off every major ally they had they stood by him. And this bull !@#$ rehashed tin foil hat theory and another attemt to coup Moo is thanks NPO gets.

[sponge logs showing him boasting about trying to destroy the NPO]

Thats how he treated NPO and ya know what thats better than he treats most of his allies.

ES dug himself into a corner. He drove his allies away and burned eveybridge he could in the process. Even his most loyal allies have felt the need to vote on if they should cancel treaties.

Given the patience Moo has thus far provided Polar I doubt NPO is on the verge of eating its own baby, rather leaving it to its own devices. Its not NPO they should fear - its VE with its treaties and CB on Polar for spying and the load of alliances wanting to see Polar get its just desserts

NpO has abused its position as a trusted ally and brother alliance of NPO for months whilst managing to alienate itself from anyone of relevance on Planet Bob

[...]

Pacifica at every turn has been slandered, deceived and undermined both in private and public by the leadership of the New Polar Order

Polarcouldnt care less about it - its been violated in spirit so many times its heartbreaking; OoO is the only treaty thats keeping NpO alive at this moment in time after months of provoking its "allies" and anyone of relevance on Bob.

[too many quotes to fit in one post]