Moo told me he's giving peace to FAN

[ditchboy00]

at least they stopped w/ the spies excuse garbage.

[Ogaden]

Decomming soldiers takes a few seconds - it's only a few clicks for god's sake. It's not like nukes where you can buy one daily and where letting someone keep them is actually risky.

If you see some guys not abiding to terms send a warning. And another. Then start attacking offenders. It's common sense. Declaring on a whole alliance all of sudden because you just happened to notice a bigger part didn't make those few clicks isn't common sense. It's just a public display for a realpolitik reason - FAN would have very likely came back and nuke NPO again - hell even your gov admitted it. Idk why you guys keep trying so hard.

NPO aren't the ones bending over backwards and into knots to discredit a rather obvious cause of war.

I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient.

[Mogar]

NPO aren't the ones bending over backwards and into knots to discredit a rather obvious cause of war.

I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient.

you basically waited until a few weeks before their terms ended then said LOL YOU BROKE TEH TERMS, EZI FOR EVERYONE!

[puckpilot27]

NPO aren't the ones bending over backwards and into knots to discredit a rather obvious cause of war.

I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient.

instead you bend over backwards to defend your cause of war. same basic concept.

you only look at the facts that help out your argument and ignore any attempt to bring other facts into play.

[Asriel Belacqua]

Most of the violations of the terms that occured were a few nations violating multiple things, most of the violators not being official members of FAN (not registered on forums, etc). In my opinion, the fact that you have held such a helpless alliance as prisoner for so long only shows weakness. Not strength. It shows cowardice, an inability to prove that you have no fear. No matter how hard you try NPO, the community is obviously not on your side 100% on this one, and don't try to tell me they are, for you just have to look around, look at all the "FREE FAN" signatures and posts in threads like these to know who is thinking what.

[Ogaden]

you basically waited until a few weeks before their terms ended then said LOL YOU BROKE TEH TERMS, EZI FOR EVERYONE!

Not me personally no.

instead you bend over backwards to defend your cause of war. same basic concept.

you only look at the facts that help out your argument and ignore any attempt to bring other facts into play.

Which facts are these, pray tell?

[atrophis]

Just a point of clarification:

FAN has publicly said many times that they'd only accept a white peace.

And this is indeed, still the case.

[Ogaden]

Most of the violations of the terms that occured were a few nations violating multiple things, most of the violators not being official members of FAN (not registered on forums, etc). In my opinion, the fact that you have held such a helpless alliance as prisoner for so long only shows weakness. Not strength. It shows cowardice, an inability to prove that you have no fear. No matter how hard you try NPO, the community is obviously not on your side 100% on this one, and don't try to tell me they are, for you just have to look around, look at all the "FREE FAN" signatures and posts in threads like these to know who is thinking what.

I'll let FAN know that you consider them helpless victims next time I get the chance to parley. I'm sure that will endear you to them.

[Ogaden]

And this is indeed, still the case.

Hi atrophis,

Asriel Belacqua has informed me that you're helpless victims of our might, while I was under the impression that you guys were proud warriors, an impression I have maintained and respected in my combat with you. Am I incorrect?

Edited April 10, 2009 by James Dahl

[GOONS]

White peace is the only peace that FAN will accept.

[Asriel Belacqua]

Compared to NPO's strength currently, FAN is helpless without being allowed to regrow. You are holding them weaponless, moneyless, and shirtless in a cage. Though they have the ability to grow strong, they are currently mostly defenseless. Look at the numbers mate. 900 NPO nations against how many FAN? How many high-tier NPO nations are there vs how many high-tier FAN nations? How many allies vs how many allies? Compared to NPO, FAN IS defenseless if they left Peace Mode. They can fight, and are the best fighters imo on Bob, but even the best fighters will lose if the numbers are against them 50:1

[Mogar]

Not me personally no.

Of course not you personally, but the policies you're defending are basically "look for an excuse to roll them so we don't have to give them peace and lose our big pixels!" everyone saw what happened with MK, and FAN can recruit and tech deal, plus bought donations like coke, so they'd be able to recover very quickly, and with modern wonders make themselves into an even greater war machine.

Hi atrophis,

Asriel Belacqua has informed me that you're helpless victims of our might, while I was under the impression that you guys were proud warriors, an impression I have maintained and respected in my combat with you. Am I incorrect?

just in case you werent aware, Mr. Belacqua is also sentenced to EZI as long as he wears his NAAC AA, so I'd gather him and FAN have similar goals, and as he stated below, they were the greatest warriors, but against Pacifica's gangbang machine, they couldn't win.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Mogar

[Asriel Belacqua]

Hi atrophis,

Asriel Belacqua has informed me that you're helpless victims of our might, while I was under the impression that you guys were proud warriors, an impression I have maintained and respected in my combat with you. Am I incorrect?

Do not assume I have no respect for FAN, for I would have to say that I have more respect for them than you do. They are the best fighters in the game in my opinion, as I have stated many times before and a lot of them were personal friends before leaving CN. Even when we were enemies I respected FAN for their prowess in battle, and the way they act. They are helpless if left in their current state. They can do things that are considered by some to be the acts only a dangerous person could make, but really, compared to what NPO has put against them, what chance do they stand? THIS is what I talk about. Not what I believe you are assuming I am saying.

[Ogaden]

Compared to NPO's strength currently, FAN is helpless without being allowed to regrow. You are holding them weaponless, moneyless, and shirtless in a cage. Though they have the ability to grow strong, they are currently mostly defenseless. Look at the numbers mate. 900 NPO nations against how many FAN? How many high-tier NPO nations are there vs how many high-tier FAN nations? How many allies vs how many allies? Compared to NPO, FAN IS defenseless if they left Peace Mode. They can fight, and are the best fighters imo on Bob, but even the best fighters will lose if the numbers are against them 50:1

FAN has been growing all year, albeit slowly. Hiding in peace mode isn't exactly prison, it's hiding. That's why it's called hiding in peace mode.

The main argument I encounter is basically summarized be "Boo NPO you suck, FAN is awesome let them go".

[Mogar]

FAN has been growing all year, albeit slowly. Hiding in peace mode isn't exactly prison, it's hiding. That's why it's called hiding in peace mode.

The main argument I encounter is basically summarized be "Boo NPO you suck, FAN is awesome let them go".

No, the basic argument you're encountering, is let your old grudges go and stop forcing players out of the game, this type of mentally is making your alliance look bad, and just lost you a treaty partner not even 4 hours ago, so I'd think the whole "we don't care about public opinion" party line, even if not stated publicly, has seemed to be changing, looking over at Mr. Brookbank at least.

[Asriel Belacqua]

I will let Mogar take this. He has done a much better job at stating some things I wish to state, and I agree with him fully.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Asriel Belacqua

[Mogar]

I will let Mogar take this. He has done a much better job at stating some things I wish to state, and I agree with him fully.

well that makes me feel special, I just don't feel any alliance should have the right to tell you that your alliance can't exist.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

NPO aren't the ones bending over backwards and into knots to discredit a rather obvious cause of war.

I'm sorry the facts are inconvenient.

Are you honestly going to try to contend that NPO had any intention of holding their promise of peace? Not only was their attack on the whole FAN alliance a violation of the treaty in itself, but the attack was very conviently placed so that FAN would have nice, juicy tech and no nukes with which to defend themselves. Clearly, VietFAN2 was premeditated. I'm fine with some NPO members saying that FAN must be kept down for realplitick reasons, but trying to play the victim here is incredibly ignorant.

[Mogar]

Are you honestly going to try to contend that NPO had any intention of holding their promise of peace? Not only was their attack on the whole FAN alliance a violation of the treaty in itself, but the attack was very conviently placed so that FAN would have nice, juicy tech and no nukes with which to defend themselves. Clearly, VietFAN2 was premeditated. I'm fine with some NPO members saying that FAN must be kept down for realplitick reasons, but trying to play the victim here is incredibly ignorant.

Well for one thing Jaxon, arguing with the grunts of NPO will not do anything to change it, nor will the upper government even bother to read topics like this, so I doubt we're going to see a change here, and of course it was pre meditated and planned to get the most tech for the least amount of damage costs, it's how most wars NPO fights are planned .

[Asriel Belacqua]

well that makes me feel special, I just don't feel any alliance should have the right to tell you that your alliance can't exist.

I believe that same thing. Thus why I'm in the alliance I'm in, and thus why my signature is what it is.

[GTTofAK]

How far is this bar going to move?

First it was fighting people across re-rolls.

Then it was lowered to fighting without offering them surrender.

Now it’s fighting them when they refuse to surrender.

Does real politic even matter anymore or has the hold damn thing gone OOC lovy dovy?

FAN has given us absolutely no IC reason to give them a white peace.

Edited April 10, 2009 by GTTofAK

[Mogar]

How far is this bar going to move?

First it was fighting people across re-rolls.

Then it was lowered to fighting without offering them surrender.

Now it’s fighting them when they refuse to surrender.

Does real politic even matter anymore or has the hold damn thing gone OOC lovy dovy?

FAN has given us absolutely no IC reason to give them a white peace.

they're people(OOC: playing this game) just like you and I and you're essentially committing genocide, because less than 20% of them total broke your surrender terms, because you were afraid of them coming back and nuking you and losing your precious infra, the bar will be "lowered" until no man, and no alliance ever tells another leader of a nation that their nation will be at war as long as they exist, and personally, I see that as raising the bar for the community overall. GTTofAK, as a serious question, how many allies are you willing to lose to keep down teh ebil FAN menace?

edit: your surrender terms are not white peace, the last time you gave them surrender terms, they got shafted, I'd guess you'd feel similarly to them if you were betrayed, and no real politic doesnt matter when an alliance is nowhere near a threat to you, GATO wasn't a threat to you either though, but I suppose giving the body republic a good mass tech raid every so often is good for morale, more medals after all. Also, you're correct, they haven't given you an IC reason to give them white peace because you're attempting to erase them from existing, that's a good enough reason for me to do whatever is needed to keep myself alive, as I bet it would be for you.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Mogar

[Stonewall Jaxon]

FAN has given us absolutely no IC reason to give them a white peace.

I, for one, never put my signature on something without a full intention to uphold whatever document I signed. Why? Because once you go back on your word once, there's really no reason to trust you anymore. Lying doesn't pay, not even from a realpolitick perspective

[Kindom of Goon]

Now it’s fighting them when they refuse to surrender.

Does real politic even matter anymore or has the hold damn thing gone OOC lovy dovy?

FAN has given us absolutely no IC reason to give them a white peace.

Fine, ignoring the OOC stuff, what you're essentially saying is unless an alliance gives you a reason for peace (i.e. agrees to pay ridiculously large amounts of Tech to you or agrees to pretty much exist under your control) then they can look forward to eternal war?

Also I've not studied the terms in detail, but the idea that buying too many soldiers = eternal war is pretty shocking and is in no way "real politic", its just doing something because you can.

[Starfox101]

How far is this bar going to move?

First it was fighting people across re-rolls.

Then it was lowered to fighting without offering them surrender.

Now it’s fighting them when they refuse to surrender.

Does real politic even matter anymore or has the hold damn thing gone OOC lovy dovy?

FAN has given us absolutely no IC reason to give them a white peace.

And what did GATO do to deserve months of a Viceroy? They put up little to no resistance. It does not matter what an alliance does, you will punish them all the same, based merely on past grudges.