Issues Regarding “Fall Barbarossa”

[Malatose]

OOC: So the X-15 is a jet fighter now? LOL YEAH RIGHT. So, I'm guessing you're lanching all this fighters from mid-air via Cargo transports? How about payload? please explain to me? I'm ignoring your air attack until it's fixed.

[LeVentNoir]

They could be launched from a static rail skijump stye, and carry scram jet powered missiles.

[Uberstein]

They could be launched from a static rail skijump stye, and carry scram jet powered missiles.

Did they RP building these rails?

[sir jesus]

Everything has been removed. The fighters are now F-35's without any special technology and my factbook has been edited as well. The research money for the technology is edited into pilot training funding.

Can we please continue RPing this?

[JEDCJT]

As posted in the other IC thread, the list of whose's on which side are below:

Nordlandic Confederacy (and these attacking Slavorussia):

Nordheim

Union of Western Europe

Prussia

Germany

CSSR

Molakia

Norsvea

Pro-Slavorussia:

Slavorussia (and possibly the rest of RUSSIAN, except Vaule)

Canada and the Comitern

Azerbaijan

Bosporan

Glorious Aoterotoa

Promised Land

(possibly more)

Neutral:

UK

Tahoe

Viniland

Imperium of America

Hansaetic Commonwealth (?)

Atlantian Federation (?)

Artemis (?)

Uralic Bashkortostan (semi-neutral)

Mariehamm Arms

Vaule

If I missed any, or was mistaken about anything, please pardon me.

[sir jesus]

I am Pro-Slavorussian.

[Arkantos]

As posted in the other IC thread, the list of whose's on which side are below:

Nordlandic Confederacy (and these attacking Slavorussia):

Nordheim

Union of Western Europe

Prussia

Germany

CSSR

Molakia

Norsvea

Pro-Slavorussia:

Slavorussia (and possibly the rest of RUSSIAN, except Vaule)

Canada and the Comitern

Azerbaijan

Bosporan

Glorious Aoterotoa

Promised Land

(possibly more)

Neutral:

UK

Tahoe

Viniland

Imperium of America

Hansaetic Commonwealth (?)

Atlantian Federation (?)

Artemis (?)

Uralic Bashkortostan (semi-neutral)

Mariehamm Arms

Vaule

If I missed any, or was mistaken about anything, please pardon me.

Value just declared war on the Nordlandic Confederacy.

[Comrade]

I think one issue arising from this and every war should be the economic impact. I understand we lack official numbers, but if you are dumping 150-200 CMs once or twice, your economy will suffer post war. We all need to remember to RP the after effects!

[Justinian the Mighty]

Guys what the heck happened? I see there was some issue with KM's tech level. I admit after I read his response to my attack, I was planning on calling that into question. No army is invincible, and he should have taken moderate to heavy casualties, not little to none like he indicated.

I've mentioned that I think tech sharing is bs. It's lazy rp if you ask me. A stronger country with advanced tech can, in an instant propel, a 3rd world developing country in to the modern age, but declaring the rp void? I was really looking forward to reconstruction, if I win, or rping a government in exile if I loose. I thought it would be fun.

For the record I think we should let KM get his tech straightened out and continue.

[Sargun II]

A stronger country with advanced tech can, in an instant propel, a 3rd world developing country in to the modern age, but declaring the rp void?

The only one who declared the RP void was Kaiser Martens and Malatose.

[Justinian the Mighty]

They've been plotting for weeks and moved their pawns into place. I think they should continue. Just because your tech isn't impervious to mine anymore, (not like realistically was before) shouldn't discourage you.

If not I’ll ask if we can treat this the way we do when a defender refuses to recognize an invasion, which I think means you loose your whole country to the invaders. Because I want to finish what has been started. I did not pull my hair out for several days just for everything to just be void.

[Bacharth]

I'll try to be completely civil in here and only state my opinion.

Facts:

1. Sargun is not omnipresent.

2. Sargun explained that a week ago, he retconed Niko for the same thing.

3. KM, tech dealings aside, makes long, detailed posts that show military knowledge

4. The entire tech deal was a vague cloud.

5. This war has lasted less than a week

Sixx. I like replacing the number 6 with the word Sixx.

7. This has to be the first major war with very little OOC

Opinions:

1. If KM does come back and gets retconned, he would make an official tech deal and send his troops back to the front, however, except now, all his troops will be back to reinforce the front, also, they'll be fresh and without fatigue (as if anyone cares)

2. KM was one of the few sources of some great RP in that war, losing him would be losing a great writer. However, his tech deal year was 2009. Around 1400 tech. Brian, Triyun, Vektor, they all have large nations. The stats are still there.

3. Sargun could have retconned KM at any time. All the rp would be for nothing. KM would do the above. However, the posts, the RPs, would be gone. KM spent a lot of time writing those rps. It's not like some dick who said, "HEY I HAVE OVER 9000 TECH! I MAKE A EMP MISSILEBOMB AND NUKE YOU! BAIBAI!!!!! LOLZIWINZORZ!!!"

More Facts:

1. Everyone tonight got mad. Everyone jumped the gun and started throwing accusations and assumptions. What the NC has done may seem rather rash. However, KM has been hated OOC and constantly being the bad guy IC and OOC. Everyone was against him during Nordland. Most of these rules have probably been created because of Martens. He has quit multiple times because of the OOC war nature of this community, I think. Now, if I were in his shoes, and I see something coming up about my tech level, when I tried to make sure everything is legit. I get into a war and start making good progress, I start really doing good, and someone just says, "Hey wait a minute! I missed something before! You can't do that!" They're also being really aggressive about it. I'll see the same old broken record and quit.

I want to regail you a story that I have. I used to be the mod of a huge Grand Theft Auto San Andreas Multiplayer community. I was a junior mod, pretty much hated by most of the mods, but they had good reason after a while. There was an exploit people could do called Quickshootting. Honestly, I didn't know about it or how to look for it. After a while, people thought it was fine to do the quickshoot, and eventually they forgot about it. Now, there was the obvious way to quickshoot, which I could ban for. But then there was the grey area. Then, someone was doing it while I was reconning them, and it so happened another moderator was watching. They told me to ban.

Sargun, I've been in your shoes before, and to be honest, you remind me a LOT of when I was a moderator. I know this isn't an easy thing, because you're first of all, not really an official mod, you were just put in place by Stormcrow. You don't have a custom user title. If I were you, I would definately feel like I had something to prove, and I can see that.

/pseudo-psychiatry

[Agostinho Neto]

That's why Botha's rule should be enforced PLAY BY YOUR STATS, END OF STORY, no "tech sharing" no "calculate your GDP"

[Franz Ferdinand]

If this war has been nullified, then I see no reason why the attacked in this war can't become the attackers, by declaring war to clean this matter up.

[Agostinho Neto]

I think this war should go on, or eventually be considered won by the RUSSIANs. People can't just escape the wars because they are loosing it, when you rp a war you accept the risk you could loose it, eventually.

Edited April 10, 2009 by President Aliyev

[Justinian the Mighty]

If this war has been nullified, then I see no reason why the attacked in this war can't become the attackers, by declaring war to clean this matter up.

That would turn me into the bad guy, and I wouldn't get the international support I have now. I want the war to continue on it's present course. If loosing is a concern for the members of the NC, well honestly you just have to bite down and deal with it. These are the consequences of war. You rolled the dice, and you cant turn back now.

[Centurius]

That would turn me into the bad guy, and I wouldn't get the international support I have now. I want the war to continue on it's present course. If loosing is a concern for the members of the NC, well honestly you just have to bite down and deal with it. These are the consequences of war. You rolled the dice, and you cant turn back now.

This look at the precedent it would set. Now we would allow people to void a war because they used wrong numbers, next we're going to allow it because they are losing this is setting a really bad precedent. The war should be unfrozen, if NC is getting afraid well should have thought about it when you planned the war.

[Agostinho Neto]

This look at the precedent it would set. Now we would allow people to void a war because they used wrong numbers, next we're going to allow it because they are losing this is setting a really bad precedent. The war should be unfrozen, if NC is getting afraid well should have thought about it when you planned the war.

[MercyFallout]

The public set a precedent with the Sumeragi submarine incident that even if something is incorrect as far as number, speed, etc. etc. (something about her sub being able to go some ridiculous number in speed or summart like that), those numbers are adjusted and the RP proceeds. They did the same against...VektorZero? I believe it was (or maybe it was Martens...I can't remember). This is what will happen in this situation.

Martens/VZ will adjust whatever numbers they need to and the role play will continue from the last place that the war was at. So if Justinians forces were right outside Berlin, they are still there. If Martens/VZ's armies were right outside St. Petersburg, they are still there. (Just examples).

/me waves magic GM wand.

[JEDCJT]

The public set a precedent with the Sumeragi submarine incident that even if something is incorrect as far as number, speed, etc. etc. (something about her sub being able to go some ridiculous number in speed or summart like that), those numbers are adjusted and the RP proceeds. They did the same against...VektorZero? I believe it was (or maybe it was Martens...I can't remember). This is what will happen in this situation.

Martens/VZ will adjust whatever numbers they need to and the role play will continue from the last place that the war was at. So if Justinians forces were right outside Berlin, they are still there. If Martens/VZ's armies were right outside St. Petersburg, they are still there. (Just examples).

/me waves magic GM wand.

Ah, that's good to hear that. Now my invasion sekrit planz neutrality can continue.

[Sargun II]

Mercy is correct. While I was aggressive in saying wiping everything KM did, he is correct in saying that we would only have to fix what's wrong.

I understand that whatever you did KM you did with this high level of tech in mind. But I can't make an exception for you. I'm sorry.

I'm requesting the thread to be un-locked and the war will continue. Marten's army and Vektor's army can both be hit by horrible plagues or something if they wish to quit it.

[Uberstein]

I don't recognize this war, because you have to think "well if they never had that tech they never would have even STARTED the war because it would have been a strategic blunder that would make Stalin's 'not one step back' look smart"

I have friends on both sides, I was going to profit if any side won (possibly more if the non-nords did according to Centerius), but I see this ruling, quite simply, as BS. I disagreed with the submarine thing before.

You could have let them simply finished the war then taken it away, but instead you decided to yank the rug out from under them in the middle of a !@#$@#$ good war. I'm disappointed in this decision.

[Mergerberger II]

The public set a precedent with the Sumeragi submarine incident that even if something is incorrect as far as number, speed, etc. etc. (something about her sub being able to go some ridiculous number in speed or summart like that), those numbers are adjusted and the RP proceeds. They did the same against...VektorZero? I believe it was (or maybe it was Martens...I can't remember). This is what will happen in this situation.

Martens/VZ will adjust whatever numbers they need to and the role play will continue from the last place that the war was at. So if Justinians forces were right outside Berlin, they are still there. If Martens/VZ's armies were right outside St. Petersburg, they are still there. (Just examples).

/me waves magic GM wand.

You're missing the point. If Martens' tech is voided in the middle of this war, then it essentially voids all of the things that he has done with the Nordic Confederacy, from the co-development of weapons to the military operations in the CSSR to the whole concept that we all had in mind of what the Nordic Confederacy is - a huge, unstoppable force of many very advanced nations with large, devoted armies. Without the technological advantage that we had in mind as part of our confederacy, we would never have started this war with the sides as they are. Justinian said it first, and the signals have been obvious, we've been planning this war for awhile and have been coordinating what and who we wanted on our side and what we wanted on the enemy side.

On top of this, there are all of the military operations that we have undertaken. Our military planning for this war and our coordination has been based around the tech levels that were given to us before the war started, and during the war up to this point. All of Martens' movements and losses and everything has been based around the notion that he had far more tech than he now does. With this ruling, it essentially makes void all of the movements and undertakings we have done. It is quite simply a very poorly thought out decision to decide that he no longer has the same tech that he used to, as it, as I have stated already, dismantles this entire war's planning and movements and everything that has been done up to this point in the war. All of our coordination of movements and everything that we have done has been done while under the impression that Martens had 2009 tech.

Keep in mind, also, that the tech sharing deal that we did was done as soon as the Nordic Confederacy was founded and had its first conference. That means that the tech sharing from Triyun/BR - Martens has been going on for weeks now and nothing has been done to stop it. Based on past experience, I have noticed a general policy of 'if you didn't notice back then, it doesn't matter now'. Do we no longer follow this policy? Because as long as we are in the business of voiding things that happened far in the past, I'd like to move back to China.

[Bacharth]

I find it extremely funny that people think all this is because we're losing. No, I find it disrespectful and childish.

"HEY! THEY'RE TRYING TO QUIT BECAUSE THEY'RE LOSING!!!!!"

No, children. Like I said, Vektor, Brian, and Triyun made that was, NS wise anyway, KM added a great deal of writing. Don't think because Nordheim is gone that we would lose. So get your heads out of your asses, your noses out of the clouds, and unplug them, because your !@#$ really does stink.

You seem to forget that Molakia is the only one taking the hit currently. So far, we have been uninhibited in our movements in Slavorussia. While you pound Molakia with your roflcoptors and lolbombs, the combined Hæren of the Nordlandic confederacy can see moscow. They can smell the pig's sweat from their positions.

So if you treat this like a victory, then KM's decision to leave CNRP was right. I don't know why he comes back, because it never changes. Everyone here just wants their color and name in a place. Everyone wants to attack the bad guy. Everyone wants to be the bad guy. So make room for the bad guy, because he just left. Congradulations, hey guys, you removed the

ONLY SOURCE OF INTERESTING RP WE HAD, aside from Sarah. All the rest of you can do is sit there twiddling your thumbs and respond to random rps with "We watch this with interest" or "We agree to this statement." Now, I'm not poking at JED here, because he did some good RPs.

In theory. No, you are not winning. Nobody is winning. In fact, CNRP has lost, you guys have degraded this game into a massive slump of "OMGZ MY TECH IS TEH WINZOORSZ." and "GODMODEGODMODEGODMODEGODMODE!!!"

[Centurius]

I find it extremely funny that people think all this is because we're losing. No, I find it disrespectful and childish.

"HEY! THEY'RE TRYING TO QUIT BECAUSE THEY'RE LOSING!!!!!"

No, children. Like I said, Vektor, Brian, and Triyun made that was, NS wise anyway, KM added a great deal of writing. Don't think because Nordheim is gone that we would lose. So get your heads out of your asses, your noses out of the clouds, and unplug them, because your !@#$ really does stink.

You seem to forget that Molakia is the only one taking the hit currently. So far, we have been uninhibited in our movements in Slavorussia. While you pound Molakia with your roflcoptors and lolbombs, the combined Hæren of the Nordlandic confederacy can see moscow. They can smell the pig's sweat from their positions.

So if you treat this like a victory, then KM's decision to leave CNRP was right. I don't know why he comes back, because it never changes. Everyone here just wants their color and name in a place. Everyone wants to attack the bad guy. Everyone wants to be the bad guy. So make room for the bad guy, because he just left. Congradulations, hey guys, you removed the

ONLY SOURCE OF INTERESTING RP WE HAD, aside from Sarah. All the rest of you can do is sit there twiddling your thumbs and respond to random rps with "We watch this with interest" or "We agree to this statement." Now, I'm not poking at JED here, because he did some good RPs.

In theory. No, you are not winning. Nobody is winning. In fact, CNRP has lost, you guys have degraded this game into a massive slump of "OMGZ MY TECH IS TEH WINZOORSZ." and "GODMODEGODMODEGODMODEGODMODE!!!"

Right you were winning but it is a coincidence it started when Canda, Vaule, Crimea, LVN, etc. started t make Military movements towards Europe.