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Issues Regarding “Fall Barbarossa”


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Ok everyone I saw that the official war topic was getting a little cluttered with ooc so I made this for us all to post our ooc crap in. I’ll start…

Ok so the war started fairly well for both sides. Slavorussia is successful in stalling the invasion, and hopes to wait out until allies can aid them. However the invaders are not meeting much resistance in the form of armed soldiers and tanks and whatnot. Everyone is happy right? Not quite.

Honestly I thought this war was going smoothly, for once I honestly didn’t care how the war ended. If Slavorussia was destroyed, so be it, if the Nordic Confederacy was defeated, even better. Now I recently came from an IRC discussion with my “allies” and what I discovered was upset me some.

Now there’s really nothing I can do about it, but lets just say I feel as though Vaule is backstabbing Slavorussia. Yes you can say “Slavorussia is opportunistic and backstabbes other countries also.” Absolutely correct, slavorussia is moddled off of real world Russian Empire/ Soviet Union/ Russian Fed, with a little bit of USA thrown in because I’m American. The fact is however Slavorussia does not backstab its allies. What? Slavorussia intended to backstab Ubersteinia and invade for a little land. Not entirely true. As we all know the discussion between Uberstein and I was ooc. I asked Uberstein what I had to do to get some land formerly held by my ally. At first he agreed to give me the land I wanted, then he did a 180 and it upset me. Sometimes I’m unable to think clearly, so I said in response something that indicated Slavorussia would invade the UE. Would I have actually don’t it. Absolutely not. Uberstein is my friend, and that wouldn’t be right.

Now you say “Well they invaded Nordland for land.” Afraid not. Ic Nordland symbolized a real threat to Slavorussian security. We were not friends and probably never would have been friends. The Slavorussian government had expressed its dislike of Nordland, and its imperialist ways several times. The Nordland war could be considered a preemptive war and an attempt to liberate north and central Europe fallowing the invasion of Confederate Tion. Anyway since Slavorussia is an old empire that has gained and lost much territory over the years the government saw an opportunity to reoccupy land on the Baltic Sea. I say reoccupy because it was in fact part of Slavorussia for sometime between KM’s first incarnation in CNRP during 2006 and his return in early 2008. Now ic I mark this time between from the formation of the Tsardom of Slavorussia (successor of the Grand Duchy of Moscow) to about the beginning of the communist rule in Slavorussia which began in the 1930’s (Ill have to check my wiki to be positive.) So now you know my motives for taking over the Baltic States.

On to the war. Triyun says I’ve been ignoring his movements. That is probably very correct. I missed Triyun’s first post last night during the initial invasion and told him I’d do it today. I pretty much read through it once, and then waited a few hours before I even typed a response. I didn’t refer to the original post which is probably why there is an issue.

In response to the EMP missiles launched at me. Sargun says without an SDI I cannot stop them from. In game the SDI is for defense against nuclear weapons, nothing else. Therefore the missile defense improvements I have in game should either destroy them before they can impact and cause massive widespread and irreversible damage. Additionally KM missile defense imrpovement could prevent your cruise missile from hitting the railroad, or at least keep it from doing so much damage.

Now that I’ve said all that. As for all the posts I missed earlier today I apologize. I just hope you guys do realize I’m not a war rp’er and I have KM, BR, Triyun and Merger who are all known for their ability to write captivating and devastating war rp’s attacking me at once. If you all recall when Slavorussia invaded Nordland with the NE and UFE Slavorussia did a piss poor job of invading, “Lets send 1 plane to bomb a city” Lol I like to think I’ve improved some since then, but I still can’t stand up to those 4.

Anyway this was basically a rant. I’m fairly calm, I’m not hugely concerned about my pixel people, but I wanted to try to share my perspective on the war and how it’s gone so far. Just give me some time, this is very overwhelming for me. I have to do a little more research for this war because the only thing I know about was is planes fly and drop bombs, soldiers shoot guns and missiles go boom! Anyway that’s all I have to say. I’ll pass the mic to someone else.

Edit: that looked a lot longer when I was typing it...

Edited by Justinian the Mighty
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The funny thing is, most of the OOC stuff is coming from noncombatants.

Also, We both made mistakes with that land thing, and I will admit I made a complete switchback. But it worked out in the end, I left and you got your land back before I could exploit the RedBear 2 complex and create even more deadly weapons, lol.

Frankly, this war seems to be going well, but I think the two sides need to communicate more about damages and such.

Also, Justinian, you've stopped logging on AIM. :unsure:

Edited by BaronUberstein
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Additionally KM missile defense imrpovement could prevent your cruise missile from hitting the railroad, or at least keep it from doing so much damage.

Although I think it shouldn't be able to stop it, I ask for a mod to clarify that, because it's really been a gray area for a long time. Though I know it will sound biased, won't it be hell though to have to roll dices for each CM shot? They're not nukes, they're tossed around like candy. I'll accept whatever a mod says on this.

One of the OOC reasons why I warred also is because you're one of the few people who can be fought with without !@#$ going OOC, so I was rather pissed off when noncombatants started to pour OOC on the thread, but blah.

You know, I think mods should seriously considering making wars after this either mandatorily pre-planned or otherwise requiring OOC consent on both sides, save for exceptions in which a person is abusing such a system. Then we'd have less wars, but each war would be much higher quality.

I like how the war is going, Slavo, though I must point out respectfully that speaking about "betrayal" regarding the uberstein and vaulan things here in OOC may be feeling seeping in from OOC into IC in a way unappropiate and harmful for gaming experience.

Maybe it'd be good to just accept the terms and move on. Hell, just do whatever you feel like doing, but lets not allow OOC-IC mixing. At this point it can either stop (And still provide valuable RP) or continue for a long time of extended bloodiness for all involved parties.

Edit: Once the Battle of Kaunas is finished, I'll re-calculate my troops to discard whatever is lost there. I didn't update the numbers yet because then I'd have to calculate 'em every time some sniper kills 1 or 2 guys, and it's just impractical.

Edited by Kaiser Martens
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My laptop hard drive crashed a few months ago and since I rarely used AIM I never downloaded it again after I got it fixed.

The CN index says:

Missile Defense - $90,000.00 - Reduces effectiveness of incoming cruise missiles used against your nation -10%. Nations must retain at least three missile defenses if that nation owns a Strategic Defense Initiative wonder.

I'm not exactly sure how to rp a cruise missle being "less effective" I would trust most of the rp'ers here to choose whether or not a particular cruise missile is destroyed or not. Destroying the railway is not a big deal. There's more than 1 track in Slavorussia, and trains can be diverted.

Edited by Justinian the Mighty
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My laptop hard drive crashed a few months ago and since I rarely used AIM I never downloaded it again after I got it fixed.

The CN index says:

I'm not exactly sure how to rp a cruise missle being "less effective" I would trust most of the rp'ers here to choose whether or not a particular cruise missile is destroyed or not. Destroying the railway is not a big deal. There's more than 1 track in Slavorussia, and trains can be diverted.

Oh. <__<

Get MSN, all the cool kids have it. :P

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Now there’s really nothing I can do about it, but lets just say I feel as though Vaule is backstabbing Slavorussia.

IC greivance. Move on. Has it occurred to you that Imperator may just be really busy? If an OOC comment directed towards Imperator that insults him or slanders him is made (by anyone) due to this, there will be consequences.

Therefore the missile defense improvements I have in game should either destroy them before they can impact and cause massive widespread and irreversible damage.

I was told that you didn't have missile defense improvements, I'll be making sure liars get their punishment.

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In response to the EMP missiles launched at me. Sargun says without an SDI I cannot stop them from. In game the SDI is for defense against nuclear weapons, nothing else. Therefore the missile defense improvements I have in game should either destroy them before they can impact and cause massive widespread and irreversible damage. Additionally KM missile defense imrpovement could prevent your cruise missile from hitting the railroad, or at least keep it from doing so much damage.

Now that I’ve said all that. As for all the posts I missed earlier today I apologize. I just hope you guys do realize I’m not a war rp’er and I have KM, BR, Triyun and Merger who are all known for their ability to write captivating and devastating war rp’s attacking me at once. If you all recall when Slavorussia invaded Nordland with the NE and UFE Slavorussia did a piss poor job of invading, “Lets send 1 plane to bomb a city” Lol I like to think I’ve improved some since then, but I still can’t stand up to those 4.

Anyway this was basically a rant. I’m fairly calm, I’m not hugely concerned about my pixel people, but I wanted to try to share my perspective on the war and how it’s gone so far. Just give me some time, this is very overwhelming for me. I have to do a little more research for this war because the only thing I know about was is planes fly and drop bombs, soldiers shoot guns and missiles go boom! Anyway that’s all I have to say. I’ll pass the mic to someone else.

Edit: that looked a lot longer when I was typing it...

SDI is defense against ballistic missiles, which are the method upon which nuclear weapons are the delivery vehicle for nuclear weapons. You need the same weapon to kill the delivery vehicle (the ballistic missile) regardless of the warhead type. Furthermore, we need an objective measure of missile defenses. If you wanted to use missile defenses as your in game defense, you would be facing a much more advanced counter measures and MEVs (manuverable entry vehicles) from my missiles, which would likely have a higher chance of defeating your missile defenses due to the larger tech gap. Saying you mostly stopped ballistic missiles without an SDI or any sort of technological advantage seems kinda BS to me.

My feeling of the war is, that while I sympathize with your poor strategic situation OOC, thats not really an excuse. While I understand there is a lot to post, since this is a coordinated military action, in my view in order to be fair you need to respond to the full effect of our posts, before anyone else makes anymore posts, because realistically, speed is a vital part of realistic combat. And your forces would be facing a massive assualt on all fronts far before any Northern Empire reinforcements could arrive, which have to travel across half of Asia.

Edit: And I said SDI Sargun,

Triyun: hey

[9:54pm] Sargun: mmk

[9:54pm] Sargun: how many missile

[9:54pm] Sargun: missiles*

[9:54pm] Sargun: did you fire?

[9:54pm] Triyun: 15

[9:54pm] Sargun: alright

[9:54pm] Triyun: lemme check if he has an SDI

[9:54pm] Triyun: I don't think he does

[9:55pm] Sargun: if he has an SDI, I'll roll them all

[9:55pm] Triyun: also he seems to be ignoring my tactics in his post in general

[9:55pm] Sargun: just so you know, as I had to remind other people this recently

[9:55pm] Triyun: no he lacks them, he has missile defenses, but those wouldn't protect against ballistic missiles

Please don't say I lied, I was totally open an honest with you.

Edited by Triyun
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SDI is defense against ballistic missiles, which are the method upon which nuclear weapons are the delivery vehicle for nuclear weapons. You need the same weapon to kill the delivery vehicle (the ballistic missile) regardless of the warhead type. Furthermore, we need an objective measure of missile defenses. If you wanted to use missile defenses as your in game defense, you would be facing a much more advanced counter measures and MEVs (manuverable entry vehicles) from my missiles, which would likely have a higher chance of defeating your missile defenses due to the larger tech gap. Saying you mostly stopped ballistic missiles without an SDI or any sort of technological advantage seems kinda BS to me.

My feeling of the war is, that while I sympathize with your poor strategic situation OOC, thats not really an excuse. While I understand there is a lot to post, since this is a coordinated military action, in my view in order to be fair you need to respond to the full effect of our posts, before anyone else makes anymore posts, because realistically, speed is a vital part of realistic combat. And your forces would be facing a massive assualt on all fronts far before any Northern Empire reinforcements could arrive, which have to travel across half of Asia.

Edit: And I said SDI Sargun,

Please don't say I lied, I was totally open an honest with you.

I agree to the first part IF the EMP was fired using Ballistic Missiles conventional Defenses will not take them out. On the second part I do not think Slavorussia will RP the back-up he received in his additional responses I would certainly not recognize it onto other things. I am getting really pissed at all the OOC Stuff, the Rail Road? Sure could have been hit and would slow down movements but a train can be rerouted. Furthermore I think we should post more IC than OOC and non-combatants should just stay out of the war threads unless they want to post a DoW

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The issue to me is more getting across Siberia, even by high speed rail takes some time, whereas, our forces are right at the border, it takes a while to move forces back. Its part of realistic military time. Also rail is particularly vulnerable to strategic bombing. Building a rail system across All of Asia and 1/3 of Europe is a huge under tanking.

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The issue to me is more getting across Siberia, even by high speed rail takes some time, whereas, our forces are right at the border, it takes a while to move forces back. Its part of realistic military time. Also rail is particularly vulnerable to strategic bombing. Building a rail system across All of Asia and 1/3 of Europe is a huge under tanking.

Perfectly agreed and as I said Slavorussia should not rp the war in his initial responses not even Bosporan back-up as we just came in. I am just saying looking at the timeframe of the actual War enough days would have passed for at least a large part to be involved in other fronts.

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Yeah but if he doesn't respond to me really, my forces, who would have moved to block certain points realsitically cannot move in. That is my main issue, he's not really RPing a legit defense till his reinforcements arrive, when in reality there wouldn't be the time.

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Yeah but if he doesn't respond to me really, my forces, who would have moved to block certain points realsitically cannot move in. That is my main issue, he's not really RPing a legit defense till his reinforcements arrive, when in reality there wouldn't be the time.

Agreed on that part.

But I think he is actually planning to do that it's just he has a lot of fronts he has to reply on :)

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For MyKep:

OOC: Defensive position for artillery against a modern enemy still won't do much. That was one of the main issues in the cold war, keeping artillery safe. At a static position, a miniature missile could still wipe them out. That is why the USSR AND US adopted different artillery tactics. They would have never fired from a static position or defensive as you call it..they would always fire and move.

And stop rping my losses. You are giving direct numbers.

IC: The New Northern Empire was suprised that all German infantry units had satellite images updates on a day to day basis. Nonetheless they continued foward. The artillery using satellite images hit several tanks and support vehicles and did not concentrate on soldiers.

That is not proper RP etiquette.

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Of course I'm moving my artillery, its not stationery but its not also close enough to shoot every 5 seconds.

I dont know what you have charging at me and I dont know what you have in the current position. Instead of labelling them, I leave it up to your interpretation. Its respect.

Edited by mykep
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I apologize for contributing to the OOC. All I can say in my defense is that I meant well.

However, this whole thing does not give the attackers the right to simply blow over his defenses like that *snaps fingers,* or blame him whern he doesn't have time to respond to every single aspect of SEVERAL walls of text!

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I have one slight issue for you Brian. How do you know that my forces have invaded Molakia already considering even his own people would be discovering that now so how can you find out so quickly?

Satellites, maybe? He wouldn't have had them trained specifically on that area, but he could have noticed it in a casual sweep. Not likely, but possible.

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I have one slight issue for you Brian. How do you know that my forces have invaded Molakia already considering even his own people would be discovering that now so how can you find out so quickly?

I have a big issue for you, how is RPing "they didn't expect us and we had low casualties" NOT god modding?

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So you can read his mind now?

Don't put words in my mouth. In case you hadn't noticed, I put a question mark at the end of the sentence. Hence, I'm guessing. Offering a possibility. Besides, he's already responded to it anyway.

Edited by Subtleknifewielder
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