Blacky Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Yes, we're shaking because of that peace mode ridden thunderous war machine that is FAN. :lol: Well the fact that they've destroyed any semblance of OPSEC you have, and also have effectively worked to stifle your tech corps amongst other things, including having to look over your shoulder with every post you make. Even in peace mode they've proven to be quite effective. The proof that you are shaking in your boots is that your leaders are unable to end the war due to the fear of the threat FAN would pose. Even still, peace mode ridden and all, FAN's war machine mightn't blow a hole through NPO's war machine like a larger alliance could, but they'd put quite a few dents in it. Edited March 31, 2009 by Blacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 It is not my place to tell the NPO how to run it's military affairs, but it would be nice to see this war end as both sides have proven their point. NPO has shown it will not tolerate anyone plotting against it and FAN has proven they will not be forced out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) You appear to be a party-line spouting drone. We get it, FAN have a low NS LOLOLOL. Can you please give it a rest now? No no, I'm laughing at FAN's economies. Peace mode must be great for it. Yes, I guess I can give it up just to satisfy you. Well the fact that they've destroyed any semblance of OPSEC you have, and also have effectively worked to stifle your tech corps amongst other things, including having to look over your shoulder with every post you make. Even in peace mode they've proven to be quite effective.The proof that you are shaking in your boots is that your leaders are unable to end the war due to the fear of the threat FAN would pose. Even still, peace mode ridden and all, FAN's war machine mightn't blow a hole through NPO's war machine like a larger alliance counts, but they'd put quite a few dents in it. Aww, leave the Tech Corps alone. They're doing a terrific job despite the smear campaign in TWiP. I myself just purchased 500 Tech, so I think they're doing fine. Maybe they don't want to end the war because it hasn't been drilled into FAN's heads enough. It could be for a multitude of reasons. I however cannot answer them because I am not the government. Also, the spying means nothing. Now when you can get a spy into an IO position I will be impressed. Feel free to come back when you do. Also, dents? All we have to do is polish the tanks armour a little. It's as if they're being hit by peas. It is not my place to tell the NPO how to run it's military affairs, but it would be nice to see this war end as both sides have proven their point. NPO has shown it will not tolerate anyone plotting against it and FAN has proven they will not be forced out of the game. Yes, they have proven they will be pushed out, but there's no problem with prolonging things and seeing what happens now is there? Edited March 31, 2009 by Ursarkar E Creed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loucifer Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well the fact that they've destroyed any semblance of OPSEC you have, and also have effectively worked to stifle your tech corps amongst other things, including having to look over your shoulder with every post you make. Even in peace mode they've proven to be quite effective. Bwahahahaha. Blacky, your always good for some entertainment. As for your assertions up above, you keep telling yourself that, and someday, even you may believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Oh noes, they didn't like you? That's sad, but I'm sure the hostility wasn't as intense as it was after you'd attempted to knock them out of existence. If you do not enjoy alliances wishing to plot your downfall, perhaps you should stop giving them reasons to do so? YOU attacked them when they thought they were under your protection and YOU have kept them from developing as an alliance and enjoying the game normally ever since. YOUR actions have fostered bitterness and resentment, therefore the onus is on YOU to right your wrongs and reverse the trend of extended bitterness and grudgery. Frankly I'm sick and tired of you trying to pin the lack of peace on FAN - you're in control and you can take the initiative if you wish.If you can be the bigger man and disregard the ridiculous lines about the 780k NS alliance wanting to kill your 22m NS alliance in favour of a genuine desire to move past long-standing hatreds it could set a good example from the top: no more underhanded tactics, no more squashing communities out of the game and a willingness to embrace wars and fun with no unhealthy level of hostility at the end of it all. FAN may forgive you for your actions if you own up and admit that you were wrong to take things so seriously, and I'm sure they wouldn't waste their chance of a new start by engaging you lot again. All it needs is for you to swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong to attack FAN when they were unarmed, and maybe an apology for ruining their gaming experience for so long. Is that asking too much? You make a number of incorrect assumptions here. So many, in fact, that I could spend the rest of my life writing about how wrong you are about, well, everything. First, that we gave them a reason to plot our downfall (as noted, they did so while our allies). Second, that I care why they plot our downfall (as noted, the important fact is that they do). Third, that I consider the Order to have done anything wrong. Fourth, that I care enough about FAN for my resources to be spent reversing their irreversible bitterness. Fifth, that something needs to be a threat to my life to constitute a threat worthy of liquidation (I'd still remove a pin on my chair even if it couldn't penetrate my trousers). Sixth, that the Order 'hates' FAN and therefore has something to move past (unlike some here, we base decisions on strategy, not emotion). Seventh, that we share your hideous view of what the future should look like. Eighth, that we were wrong. Ninth, that FAN have any interest in getting over their hatred and bitterness. And tenth, just to leave us a nice round number, that Bob is 'ruined'. You can't seriously mock them as irrelevant one moment and the next claim that you won't release them because they pose a threat to you without engaging in an amazingly high level of doublethink. I'm here to impress. Any alliance or individual that seeks to damage the Order makes themselves a threat. It doesn't matter who they are, what their strength is or what their resources are. As I stated just above, one does not need something to be life-threatening to deal with it. If a nation has the ability to create soldiers, it is a threat to another nations. If that nation is in the Order, then it is a threat to the Order. Thus it is entirely possible to be both irrelevant and a threat. Well the fact that they've destroyed any semblance of OPSEC you have, and also have effectively worked to stifle your tech corps amongst other things, including having to look over your shoulder with every post you make. Even in peace mode they've proven to be quite effective. They have? I hadn't heard FAN say or do anything for months before this thread. They haven't proven themselves to have a spy since the beginning of the war (probably because they were all caught and no one new wants to throw in with a dead alliance -- and even when there are spies, it doesn't cause us to look over our shoulders at anything since we have always worked under the assumption that there are spies within the Order) and they aren't a concern in any way of the tech corps (no idea where you got that from). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venizelos Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 there is no reason to motivate letting FAN off with a white peace. nobody likes FAN, other than Vox and independent members. FAN is definitelly a nuicance- during my time in IRON i remember wars against FAN nations that nuked all the way down to the 1k ifra range and stayed there by leaching off our members with their 5 Guerilla Camps. but it was only 1-2 nations that did that over 6 months or so, so no big deal. personally i don't like nationalist gun-crazy hill-billies, although i don't think that's a reason to keep them at war :/ maybe if FAN tried some diplomacy, they could get off with a simple apology or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 there is no reason to motivate letting FAN off with a white peace. nobody likes FAN, other than Vox and independent members.FAN is definitelly a nuicance- during my time in IRON i remember wars against FAN nations that nuked all the way down to the 1k ifra range and stayed there by leaching off our members with their 5 Guerilla Camps. but it was only 1-2 nations that did that over 6 months or so, so no big deal. personally i don't like nationalist gun-crazy hill-billies, although i don't think that's a reason to keep them at war :/ maybe if FAN tried some diplomacy, they could get off with a simple apology or something. They expect us to give them peace while they're supposedly spying on us. Maybe diplomacy is the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batallion Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 From one Armed Nations to the next, I will proudly wear my new signature, and hope everyone else does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 No no, I'm laughing at FAN's economies. Peace mode must be great for it. Kind of NPO to donate $15mil every 10 days to the cause really. That kind of generosity could go a long way to mending the relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venizelos Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 They expect us to give them peace while they're supposedly spying on us. Maybe diplomacy is the way. being spied on isn't fun, but i think its safe to assume that they are relatively harmless in that respect as well, since they haven't produced any results. spying could be like Vox's, which is drama seeking, or silent, but the end goal is the destruction of the one who is being spied on, and it doesn't seem like that is close to happening. also its not them (ie FAN) that is asking for peace, its some FAN sympathizers. it seems that FAN isn't really interested in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Kind of NPO to donate $15mil every 10 days to the cause really. That kind of generosity could go a long way to mending the relationships. Only if you can stick around to use it. Plus we're getting better at allocating our funds. Slowly but surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) there is no reason to motivate letting FAN off with a white peace. nobody likes FAN, other than Vox and independent members. Nobody likes FAN? Based on quite a few responses it seems that there is a large percentage of people who like FAN. And not just from Vox. They expect us to give them peace while they're supposedly spying on us. Maybe diplomacy is the way. Well, you have to look at why they spy on you. Because you won't give them peace. If you want the spying to stop then give them peace. Edited March 31, 2009 by Rebel Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well, you have to look at why they spy on you. Because you won't give them peace. If you want the spying to stop then give them peace. Oh, so you're speaking for FAN, looks like FAN has a new leader and we have a new target. Seriously, even if we did give them peace, the attempted spying wouldn't stop. If they were caught they'd claim to be Vox or some other alliance so that FAN doesn't get another eternal war. Please sir, do not take me for an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Blacky, you're always good for some entertainment. As for your assertions up above, you keep telling yourself that, and someday, even you may believe it. So you're suggesting they're not true? Okay, why can't you just say that without having to do it in a round about way? The fact is it is true. Also, it's good to be entertaining. They haven't proven themselves to have a spy since the beginning of the war (probably because they were all caught) I do think there was some evidence which suggested that they may have been collaborating with Vox. You've always assumed there were spies anyways and I tend to agree. I'm willing to bet Vox and FAN both have spies in NPO at the moment, whether or not they choose to prove it. Nothing of significance has been done to stop individuals from simply signing up and becoming a member of the NPO and considering the duration of their war with you it's safe to assume they have infiltrated your ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) I do think there was some evidence which suggested that they may have been collaborating with Vox. You've always assumed there were spies anyways and I tend to agree. I'm willing to bet Vox and FAN both have spies in NPO at the moment, whether or not they choose to prove it. Nothing of significance has been done to stop individuals from simply signing up and becoming a member of the NPO and considering the duration of their war with you it's safe to assume they have infiltrated your ranks. So, you agree that FAN is spying on us. Why would we let them go? So they can get away with free information? To make matters worse, collaborating with Vox. So there ya go, you've already got another reason to keep them in that eternal war state. Edited March 31, 2009 by Ursarkar E Creed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Oh, so you're speaking for FAN, looks like FAN has a new leader and we have a new target. You know you can't go around threatening people who don't agree with you. Infact, you can't threaten anybody, I don't think you have that authority. Seriously, even if we did give them peace, the attempted spying wouldn't stop. If they were caught they'd claim to be Vox or some other alliance so that FAN doesn't get another eternal war. What evidence do you have to support that? FAN was attacked for no reason other than posing a potential threat to the NPO, however pointing at the actions they have made after the attack and using them to justify the attack and then the continuation of the attack is beyond ridiculous. Where do you come up with this nonsense? Please sir, do not take me for an idiot. I think the opposite is happening in this here thread buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venizelos Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Nobody likes FAN? Based on quite a few responses it seems that there is a large percentage of people who like FAN. And not just from Vox.Well, you have to look at why they spy on you. Because you won't give them peace. If you want the spying to stop then give them peace. individual members, and not really from the alliances that are still going after FAN. and FAN attempts to spy because they don't like NPO. for them to like NPO it would have to change so much that it wouldn't be NPO anymore. you shouldn't change who you are because others don't like you. someone has to make the first step, and that is the one who has a motive to do so, and that isn't NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSuck Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I'm not gonna lie, I quite like FAN. However if they wanted peace signing a treaty with Vox is about the worst move they could have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Oh, so you're speaking for FAN, looks like FAN has a new leader and we have a new target. I'm speaking for FAN am I? To my knowledge I was only speaking for common sense? Also, did you seriously just threaten my precious infrastructure? Surely that is beneath you, don't you think? I do think we're all adults here and can have an intelligent and mature conversation without having to resort to petty insults or threats to one's pixels. But I digress. Seriously, even if we did give them peace, the attempted spying wouldn't stop. If they were caught they'd claim to be Vox or some other alliance so that FAN doesn't get another eternal war. FAN spies on the NPO because they have no other way to fight and to damage. They do not spy on you because they want to. They do it because they have been forced into a position where they have no choice. Allow them out of that position and they will no longer have any incentive to spy on you, but will rather have motivations not to (notably not wanting to get attacked again). Please sir, do not take me for an idiot. Where did I call you an idiot again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxNation Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Nobody likes FAN? Based on quite a few responses it seems that there is a large percentage of people who like FAN. And not just from Vox.Well, you have to look at why they spy on you. Because you won't give them peace. If you want the spying to stop then give them peace. Actually a lot of people like FAN, they were only dick when in WUT. Other than that, an alliance deserving of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 So, you agree that FAN is spying on us. After being a few times around the block you learn nothing is fact until Vladimir officially denies it. So yes, although Vladimir has denied that FAN has infiltrated your ranks it's pretty obvious that they have. Why would we let them go? So they can get away with free information? Well, They're spying on because you wont let them go. The information they have obtained would soon be redundant anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyria Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Oh, so you're speaking for FAN, looks like FAN has a new leader and we have a new target. Seriously, even if we did give them peace, the attempted spying wouldn't stop. If they were caught they'd claim to be Vox or some other alliance so that FAN doesn't get another eternal war. Please sir, do not take me for an idiot. I'm sorry, could you please speak into this microphone and clearly restate this part where you just threatened one of my fellow alliance members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 You know you can't go around threatening people who don't agree with you. Infact, you can't threaten anybody, I don't think you have that authority. It was another bit of sarcasm, is that term completely foreign to you? What evidence do you have to support that? FAN was attacked for no reason other than posing a potential threat to the NPO, however pointing at the actions they have made after the attack and using them to justify the attack and then the continuation of the attack is beyond ridiculous. Where do you come up with this nonsense? Evidence, okay. I guess you can call Boss Hogg evidence as well as various other spies and leaks. Sure, it happened way after the war started, but I'm fairly sure that's still grounds for a continuation even if it has taken this long. Also, if someone poses a threat to Nemesis you'd want to get rid of it now wouldn't you? I think the opposite is happening in this here thread buddy. Ouch, you hurt my ego a little there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursarkar E Creed Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I'm sorry, could you please speak into this microphone and clearly restate this part where you just threatened one of my fellow alliance members? Read my above post please. It was another go at sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 You make a number of incorrect assumptions here. So many, in fact, that I could spend the rest of my life writing about how wrong you are about, well, everything. First, that we gave them a reason to plot our downfall (as noted, they did so while our allies). Second, that I care why they plot our downfall (as noted, the important fact is that they do). Third, that I consider the Order to have done anything wrong. Fourth, that I care enough about FAN for my resources to be spent reversing their irreversible bitterness. Fifth, that something needs to be a threat to my life to constitute a threat worthy of liquidation (I'd still remove a pin on my chair even if it couldn't penetrate my trousers). Sixth, that the Order 'hates' FAN and therefore has something to move past (unlike some here, we base decisions on strategy, not emotion). Seventh, that we share your hideous view of what the future should look like. Eighth, that we were wrong. Ninth, that FAN have any interest in getting over their hatred and bitterness. And tenth, just to leave us a nice round number, that Bob is 'ruined'. There are a number of suggestions which you have listed I seemingly fine extremely inadequate. I will not argue your first point, it isn't my area. Second is directly the reasoning for the first in my opinion, thus a different category separating the two shouldn't exist, unless you are trying to make it seem you have more numerical reasonings, quality versus quantity comes into effect.. Your third point, well of course not, you never disagree with your alliance publicly, or at least what I have gathered from all of your posts within the years, especially believing in Francoism and stating going against Pacifica you're inherently wrong. Fourth, it wouldn't require any resources at all. Fifth, elaborate. Sixth, saying NPO merely bases all decisions on their strategical well being opens a pot of arguments, misunderstandings, and mere frustration. Your 'strategical well being' could collide with your allies, sometimes emotion is good. And yes, you DO sometimes rule with emotion, I have seen Moo make decisions off 'emotions' rather than 'strategical well-being', such as allowing new flocking Jarhead members, those not understanding the situation, a chance to disperse. There was nothing strategical about it, he didn't wish to destroy nations and have em' leave the game as a result, GOONS used no emotion with FARK and clearly there is a significant difference. Seventh, the future isn't anymore hideous with FAN being there, which I feel is subjective. Hideous, in my opinion, is displaying terrible and wretched acts, which I have seen none from FAN anytime soon. Eighth, subjective. Ninth, even so, their bitterness and and hatred will exceed by forcing the alliance out of the game. YOU'RE hatred exceeds theirs, or so it seems. Should you be driven from the game? (I do not like your structuring of the above statements, was hard to understand the points you were trying to convey) I'm here to impress. Any alliance or individual that seeks to damage the Order makes themselves a threat. It doesn't matter who they are, what their strength is or what their resources are. As I stated just above, one does not need something to be life-threatening to deal with it. If a nation has the ability to create soldiers, it is a threat to another nations. If that nation is in the Order, then it is a threat to the Order. Thus it is entirely possible to be both irrelevant and a threat. I will not argue your first point as it can be understood, however believing an enemy is irrelevant is, well, somewhat of an oxymoron. Relevance matters because it collides with your first statement, which I generally agree with. If an enemy is a threat, they are a threat, their size or whatnot is IRRELEVANT, but themselves are not because by doing this, you also aren't worrying about your 'strategical well-being', as you formerly stated. Never underestimate an enemy, you imply this vibe in the first part of your statement, but contradict it with the second half. Though I can typically understand the reasoning behind your 'assertions', I feel some of the suggested reasonings are exceedingly nonsense, though as stated, I understand the main point your trying to cross. If FAN members disbanded and created FAM, would it be destroyed? (This isn't a question designed to set you in a trap, answer it by Pacficia's view, not your own. I would like to be 'edumacated'. ;] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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