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How NPO lost the game


zigbigadorlou

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You see, this makes no sense to me. You pride yourself on being such a great troll, yet when someone allegedly trolls you, you get angry about it, and come back with remarks like that.

The answer as we both know is that he is not a troll at all.

Anyways, a spin on things I hadn't considered. You lose the game by playing it well *shrug*

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I think that's you putting your twist on it, not what he said.

Meh, chances are my severe dislike of NPO has influenced my take on what I just read. I certainly don't doubt that. At the same time it'd be stupid of you to assume that your view of what he said is at all either. We're both at the very opposite sides of eachother, so assuming that either of us have it right is probably incorrect to begin with. This is why I stated my opinion with, if it came out correctly, a questioning tone.

In other words: OH MY, A ROGUE MAKES AN ANTI-NPO POST THAT ISN'T SIMPLY PROPAGANDA?! BLASPHEMY!

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ok then. i guess for an alliance to "win"

1. they must despise work that allows their alliance to achieve.

2. they must let their enemies live, or at least promote more war,

3. have goals that do not include peace.

This seems odd...

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I honestly agreed in the past that rumors are rumors and most subjects like this were wishful thinking on anti NPO think-tanks... I don't know what it is, but there is something different with the treaties being signed in the past two day's versus what I have seen for the past month; the anti pacifica rhetoric seems to be so high to it almost seems like NPO is the only alliance looking out for her self now at heart, and while there are still quite a few NPO supporters outside the NPO, that fan base seems to be getting quieter and quieter.

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In my own eyes NPO has won so they won.

The other alliances that tie themselves to NPO with metal chains because NPO is the strongest are the alliances that have lost.

The mentality of; "NPO has won the game, I am now allied to them so therefore I just won the game". That, is losing.

Yeah, this too. Different perspective, same idea.

I think that's you putting your twist on it, not what he said.

He's putting a twist that I don't get, so it might be right. Meh. w/e.

Glad to see someone on CN knows how to cobble a few paragraphs together and post them up. I don't see enough of that on a regular basis, that's for sure. Content wise; meh, don't really care.

You don't see this enough for a good reason. take a look at my war page. Yeah, that is 3 wars in 3 hours within the posting time. Two of those within five minutes.

One would think that after a certain amount of time, everyone who hates and/or loves the NPO would come up with something new to say.

The only thing that seems to change in these threads is the avatars and the people's names; The Grinch isn't here anymore but we have solid NPO Party Liners like WarMaster Kerr who are more then capable of slamming home their 'point' with all the elegance and grace of a dying rhino. Which is almost as awe inspiring as the like minded attempt by the 'haters' whose arguments have all the depth, and magnetic attraction, of a bag of toe nail clippings.

These threads make me think of only one thing: The Battle of Stalingrad. Everyone hopes you both lose.

I don't claim to have new ideas. There is nothing new under the sun. I just thought my ideals were preposterous enough to garner some adherence.

I honestly agreed in the past that rumors are rumors and most subjects like this were wishful thinking on anti NPO think-tanks... I don't know what it is, but there is something different with the treaties being signed in the past two day's versus what I have seen for the past month; the anti pacifica rhetoric seems to be so high to it almost seems like NPO is the only alliance looking out for her self now at heart, and while there are still quite a few NPO supporters outside the NPO, that fan base seems to be getting quieter and quieter.

I'll be honest, other than the red thing, I've always been a distant fan. There's an obvious reason why it is distant, but even so, there's not much bad that can be said of Moo etc. other than "you're ruining the game". I mean, I have nothing but respect for Bilrow, the one who ordered my attack (I think). In any case, I don't think that I am the cause of this. Nor a symptom. This seems to be the natural ebb and flow of such things. Not sure what you're seeing, but whatever it is, the less we talk of it, the more will come of it.

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The OPs thesis is only absurd because it's garbled. Clearly what the NPO (and the rest of the planet) has failed at is providing the OP with the level of entertainment he feels entitled to.

I wonder if he's feeling more entertained after having posted it?

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That is how the vocal people are. The NPO is what it is because the "lower class" just accepts what the uppers who desire the work's goals etc. as right.

Ok, just going to respond to the portion you directed to me in response to my "two cents" post.

I spent plenty of time inside the NPO to know how it is. I think my comment was pretty accurate. Yes there are plenty of members who just accept what the leaders say. NPO is the number one alliance and offers up a decent amount of wars for them. If all you are concerned about in this game is having a little fun and building your nation without worrying too much about world politics then the NPO is a wonderful place for such a player. If a person accepts what the leaders do then it is an acceptable alliance for them to be a part of. If a person does not accept such then it is not a proper place.

For the most part when the NPO is not in a major war nations are free to go without restriction unless they owe tech or money. One might now question the Jarheads war as far as its validity as far as being a major war that would make anyone that leaves now a traitor but that's just politics.

I am actually in agreement with you on your general view of things, I just disagree with you that our viewpoint is really what all the other members of the NPO should be thinking. Each has the right to make their own choices.

Yes, many in NPO are probably ignorant as to what goes on in Bob overall but I would say many of those don't care. That is why I say your attempt to affect such will not be successful. It would take more then just words. Overall, the Order is a place of safety and prosperity for over 900 members. To some, that is all they really want.

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Ok, just going to respond to the portion you directed to me in response to my "two cents" post.

I spent plenty of time inside the NPO to know how it is. I think my comment was pretty accurate. Yes there are plenty of members who just accept what the leaders say. NPO is the number one alliance and offers up a decent amount of wars for them. If all you are concerned about in this game is having a little fun and building your nation without worrying too much about world politics then the NPO is a wonderful place for such a player. If a person accepts what the leaders do then it is an acceptable alliance for them to be a part of. If a person does not accept such then it is not a proper place.

For the most part when the NPO is not in a major war nations are free to go without restriction unless they owe tech or money. One might now question the Jarheads war as far as its validity as far as being a major war that would make anyone that leaves now a traitor but that's just politics.

I am actually in agreement with you on your general view of things, I just disagree with you that our viewpoint is really what all the other members of the NPO should be thinking. Each has the right to make their own choices.

Yes, many in NPO are probably ignorant as to what goes on in Bob overall but I would say many of those don't care. That is why I say your attempt to affect such will not be successful. It would take more then just words. Overall, the Order is a place of safety and prosperity for over 900 members. To some, that is all they really want.

You're diminishing the fact that they silence the majority of their members if they happen to disagree with the general status quo or an NPO policy publicly. You're dimishing the fact that NPO's lower tier of meatshields sent out carelessly to attack and be attacked in such wars as the Jarheads war, without the proper funding, experience, or organization. You're dimishing the fact that there aren't a whole lot out there that I can think of that JUST want to build their nation in peace. And hell, if you do, join a neutral and intelligent alliance, join GPA or TDO. But as it stands there might be some people that join just to build a nation. However IMO those people slowly but surely become more and more involved in the way NPO functions and politics as a whole.

That's MY two cents.

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You're diminishing the fact that they silence the majority of their members if they happen to disagree with the general status quo or an NPO policy publicly. You're dimishing the fact that NPO's lower tier of meatshields sent out carelessly to attack and be attacked in such wars as the Jarheads war, without the proper funding, experience, or organization. You're dimishing the fact that there aren't a whole lot out there that I can think of that JUST want to build their nation in peace. And hell, if you do, join a neutral and intelligent alliance, join GPA or TDO. But as it stands there might be some people that join just to build a nation. However IMO those people slowly but surely become more and more involved in the way NPO functions and politics as a whole.

That's MY two cents.

The endless low-intensity warfare is our war academy graduate degree program. :jihad:

You're the involuntary professors.

Edited by James Dahl
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As a member of the fair activity of CyberNations.net, I formally have to protest my existence in the alliance of New Pacific Order. Although I have not been in this place for very long, it has been sufficient time to notice precisely why it is called the "ebil En Pee Oh". It is my goal to now iterate these points.

The purpose of a game

The purpose of a game or other such activity is essentially to relieve boredom in a pleasurable manner. The first problem I see in the New Pacific Order is the failure to do such things. Before I continue, I must note that this does not count OOC occurrences (IRC etc.) as those things are non unique to CN. In order to win the game in my mind, one must fulfill its purpose. One must have fun. The problems unique to CN start with...

You were the member of a very large alliance. While very large alliances can and do develop subcultures and the various members of the subculture ultimately become friends and sometimes even leave to form new alliances, NPO tends to restrict its members activities in ways that other alliances do not. Perhaps you would have enjoyed life in a smaller, more permissive alliance, perhaps not. I think too it depends upon how you define "fun". Some people have a perfectly wonderful time playing CN by logging into their nations, developing them, talking to people in their alliance forums, chatting on IRC and occasionally pointing and laughing at remarks in the CN Forums and never fire a shot in anger at anyone for any reason.

Work

"This alliance is the best because of the hard work of hundreds of people." This sentiment saturated my time here. This thought, that one must work for greatness, that NPO is the best because of work, that this work is desirable, is despicable. A fleece has been pulled over your eyes by the world. Because NPO is the biggest, people assume that they have won, and therefore have a strange urge to continue with it. The problem however lies in that it is not achieving its major goal except for a few. Those such as Moo, Koona, Bilrow, etc. who are the leaders seem to gain a sort of sense of achievement that they truly made it as they did. Of course, its more of a part time job for them. Then there is the middle class who find a sense of belonging because they are bored, sad individuals who find this alliance as a niche. Then the lower class, the lazy majority. These are the ones with the sentiments "I want some war" and "I need to use my nukes" and "WTF why'd we have to fight Jarheads?" For these people, they simply know nothing else. As such, even though NPO does occasionally provide war, it has still failed by promoting peace. It instead promotes work. Work occupies, however it essentially kills the game. I do allow that some work is good, however that work ought to have direct consequences and a direct pleasurable outcome, seeing as this is A GAME.

tl;dr : Because NPO emphasizes work, they lost the game.

Telling remarks. Thing is, *EVERY* successful alliance has hard working members and the most successful ones find ways to get as many of their members possible involved in that work. Self-sacrifice, not "what's in it for me", is also a hallmark of the best alliances. Clearly NPO was a horrible fit for you. Then again, if you just want to keep your gun hand fast, and don't care about others, I'm not sure that any alliance would have been a good fit for you.

Battle

The NPO is good at battle. Some would say that they cannot lose. Some would say that they have won the game. The problem with this is that almost all that many seek is war. There are the occasional killjoys who want to peacefully grow their nation to be as big as possible, but for the rest of us, we want something more than collect taxes, pay bills, do a tech deal. We want politics. We want drama. We want an enemy. We want war. In any game, if there is no problem, there's nothing interesting to do. It becomes meaningless work. One must note that I do not consider Vox as an enemy because essentially they do not care and kind of fail at life. The government, I must admit, has done a good job to pretend that there is a goal, but that is the fleece that has been pulled. I am here to tell you that there really isn't one. Maintaining is an uninteresting, boring, day to day thing. It certainly is necessary at times, however in excess of a year is too much. Because of the maintenance, no one rises up. The emphasis on work causes a deemphasis on battle. No one dares legitimately touch you. Because battle is a key part to an interesting game, NPO is losing the game.

tl;dr : NPO killed its enemies. Because there's no one to fight, they lost the game.

Much of the real politics in this game goes on in private IRC channels and other places common members don't get access to so it's easy to believe that nothing is going on if you aren't "in the know". I too share your desire for more "action", but I've come to understand that is not the way of things here. Great Wars happen every 9 months to a year. Smaller fights happen, but when you're in NPO, they are mostly duckrolls, not life and death struggles. Again, the perspective from a smaller alliance, particularly one that allows raiding and such is completely different.

Efficiency

This ties the two together. Because NPO strives for efficiency and the natural goal of being the best ever, they have no purpose except to maintain the greatness, have no desire except to keep the peace, and cannot truly achieve the purpose of the game because they are stuck on the natural ideas.

Here you have a valid point. NPO really has no motivation to see the world "blow up" more often than it does and then it has no motivation to be in the center of the fight. It hasn't actually been at the center of the fight since Spring of 2007, almost two years ago. Alliances like mine however, Valhalla, make a point of being in the thick of things. As such, most all of us are harden combat vets or soon will be.

Solution

I bring this not to dis the NPO, but to improve it. At its heart lies a capacity for interest and awesomeness, waiting to be brought out. And a bunch of unthinking workers who have nothing better to do.

The solution I bring forth is one that none of you will like because it is not natural. It goes against what real life tell you. I propose we do away with the natural ideals: Trust, Compassion, anti-espionage, Honor, etc. in favor of a more intelligent one. One of a Hobbesian state of nature with people that are willing to do whatever it takes to get the most out of their existence. When I say this, I say this to all of Planet Bob. The only one who is getting close is Vox, and they suck at life. Even so, they are winning. At least on the part of Electron Sponge, when he gave up his right to care, he started having fun. This is similar to what I propose. Uncaring caring. Take some risks. Further yourselves. Backstab, band apart, band together, have some fun. And remember: anyone is a target. There is no trust.

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.

The Internet is SRS BSNS.

or as some like to say,

MAIM KILL BURN

The lower class have nothing to lose but your wool.

FIGHTING CLASS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

Or you go about your business quietly, behind the scenes, doing everything you mention but not drawing attention to the fact you're doing it. Or you just find a cool alliance full of mature people you can have an intelligent conversation with on Skype when you aren't fighting and make sure it's at the center of every meaningful fight the past two years. I've done my best to do the latter. ;)

The real tl;dr: Fun is where you make it...and sometimes where you find it. Make sure you know what you consider 'fun' first.

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ChairmanHal, your analysis is spot on.

NPO isn't for everyone, but too many people just want to stay for the benefits of NPO and hate the culture and the duties. They just want to be part of the #1 alliance.

Personally I wish the people who hate being in the NPO would just leave.

I'm just a foot-soldier though, leadership knows better than I what's best for the alliance.

Edited by James Dahl
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Yes, there is a difference. The purpose of cybernations is not just to play a game like the term 'game' brings some specific defintion of rules to the table, such as those you propose. In fact, a geo-political simulator ought to be exactly what the name implies: a simulation. A simulation is conducted by the actions of its partaking members, and these members take it as a serious political system. How do you intend to argue this is inherently wrong or confused?

Nicely stated

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The endless low-intensity warfare is our war academy graduate degree program. :jihad:

You're the involuntary professors.

You speak as though you matter. :) When in actuality you're just another number. Just another digit, another stat, another pointless set of 1's and 0's to NPO.

I do, though, enjoy how you ignored the entire content of my post and spewed a miscellanious statement that is technically flawed. You see, I'm completely voluntary. I attacked you after you folks at NPO continued to step over lines that were bold and clear. Difference is, unlike many others in the Cybernations universe I chose to fight rather than to whine.

So continue with your $@y, overdone, arrogant statements as I enjoy attacking you. As it stands you're very new to the game, while I've played for both of the effective "sides" for very long times. You've spent 72/80 of your days at NPO, I can only guess the other 8 were spent as a None.

So until you're in my mother****ing shoes, do try not to act as though you know anything about me, about my ways, or about my ****ing goals.

Kthxbai. :)

Edited by JayOvfEnnay
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ChairmanHal, your analysis is spot on.

NPO isn't for everyone, but too many people just want to stay for the benefits of NPO and hate the culture and the duties. They just want to be part of the #1 alliance.

Personally I wish the people who hate being in the NPO would just leave.

Then you wouldn't be the #1 alliance though, sort of paradoxical.

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You're diminishing the fact that they silence the majority of their members if they happen to disagree with the general status quo or an NPO policy publicly. You're dimishing the fact that NPO's lower tier of meatshields sent out carelessly to attack and be attacked in such wars as the Jarheads war, without the proper funding, experience, or organization. You're dimishing the fact that there aren't a whole lot out there that I can think of that JUST want to build their nation in peace. And hell, if you do, join a neutral and intelligent alliance, join GPA or TDO. But as it stands there might be some people that join just to build a nation. However IMO those people slowly but surely become more and more involved in the way NPO functions and politics as a whole.

That's MY two cents.

Ok, I suppose I should just walk away because it is obvious you know nothing of whom you were replying to and what that person experienced in the NPO.

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Couple of friendly advises to you JayOvfEnnay.

Edit your post as avoiding forum filter can get you a warn.

Second, as a seasoned CN gentlemen let me dispense also this advice to you, whenever you notice you have more then 3 poo poo words in your post, its time to take a time out from the game and post later.

Advises to post by.

Anyway more on to OP, I found my self in disagreement with the authors standards in use for judging "winning" et all. But the author is completely entitled to this opinion and I have read it and respect that he has one.

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Hey, I just wanted to point something out.

When I was in NPO, there were at least two membership applications in which I said that the applicant "had style." They were zig and Boss Hogg. Zig posted this thread, and Boss Hogg ended up being a FAN scam artist and TWiP star.

Needless to say, I'm not saying anyone has style in any NSO applications.

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This thread brings to question a lot of things about oneself that one should consider whilst playing this game.

1: How do you have fun? Well, for some, it is sitting in a large alliance, like NPO, and getting a lot of little wars, or being involved in politics to a great extent. For others, it is being in a constant state of war with no regard to politics (Vox, etc). For me? I have decided to rejoin the NAAC, while at first I fought many battles, went all the way from 20,000 strength to about 200, now I have decided that was enough for me, and I will build my nation, so I sit in peace mode for a bit, and when I decide I'm strong enough, I may perhaps leave PM and go fight again. To me, bragging about my "EPIC WIN 2K STRENGTH" is fun, because, well, it's ironic, and it just is fun to me.

2: How to win the game? For some, it is fun. For others, it is control, which to them is fun, and then there is the small number of people who get no enjoyment out of this game, who should probably leave, but I am not one to tell them what to do or how to do it, so I won't.

and the last, just to keep it short by not listing every question, What part should you play to have the most fun? Should you be the big political machine in charge of everyone? The little peon worker who tends to the fires of construction or destruction? Or some random bloke like me that has nothing to do with anything and occassionally posts on some forum to prove a small, and some would argue, insignificant point?

The choice in all these matters is yours (Except maybe being the big political machine in charge of everyone which tends to be reserved for a select few), how you use this choice has a great effect on how much enjoyment you have whilst visiting this place we call Bob.

I know, it was such a dreadfully long post, and I know that a lot will probably not read it all, if any, but I have far to much time on my hands right now, so I apologize.

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I know, it was such a dreadfully long post, and I know that a lot will probably not read it all, if any, but I have far to much time on my hands right now, so I apologize.[/color]

It was an excellent post which was far from dreadful content wise, or long and I read it entirely.

But do not type in blue letters, ever. There is a reason why we all type in the standard letter color. Would be a shame that your content rich posts get lost in your unneeded coloring.

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I post in blue because it is an expression of who I am, what I am, where I come from, and what I wish for. If people wish to skip over my posts I do not much care, because I hardly ever visit these forums (last visit was March 8th 2009, one before that was early December 2008), and it is all in their right to skip over any post they wish. The good thing about what I call retirement (My state of being in CN) is that I found I can do almost anything (as long as it's reasonable and within the rules) without regard to what others think, though I appreciate your compliments and criticisms. :)

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This thread brings to question a lot of things about oneself that one should consider whilst playing this game.

1: How do you have fun? Well, for some, it is sitting in a large alliance, like NPO, and getting a lot of little wars, or being involved in politics to a great extent. For others, it is being in a constant state of war with no regard to politics (Vox, etc). For me? I have decided to rejoin the NAAC, while at first I fought many battles, went all the way from 20,000 strength to about 200, now I have decided that was enough for me, and I will build my nation, so I sit in peace mode for a bit, and when I decide I'm strong enough, I may perhaps leave PM and go fight again. To me, bragging about my "EPIC WIN 2K STRENGTH" is fun, because, well, it's ironic, and it just is fun to me.

2: How to win the game? For some, it is fun. For others, it is control, which to them is fun, and then there is the small number of people who get no enjoyment out of this game, who should probably leave, but I am not one to tell them what to do or how to do it, so I won't.

and the last, just to keep it short by not listing every question, What part should you play to have the most fun? Should you be the big political machine in charge of everyone? The little peon worker who tends to the fires of construction or destruction? Or some random bloke like me that has nothing to do with anything and occassionally posts on some forum to prove a small, and some would argue, insignificant point?

The choice in all these matters is yours (Except maybe being the big political machine in charge of everyone which tends to be reserved for a select few), how you use this choice has a great effect on how much enjoyment you have whilst visiting this place we call Bob.

I know, it was such a dreadfully long post, and I know that a lot will probably not read it all, if any, but I have far to much time on my hands right now, so I apologize.

This is a high quality post, and I like it a lot, except for the part where he's in NAAC and in peace mode and still has a higher nation strength than I do. :P

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