TWiP and Tattler Present: Reyne Mordigan's Greatest Hits

[Sceptor o Sordidness]

Exactly, its left up to the reader. Some obviously see them negatively, some like yourself see such positively. That is not character assassination that seems to me to be actual reporting.

There are various qualities of reporting, and opportunistic reporting such as this would find itself far away from the weakest reach of light--at the bottom. Then again, that's what people find entertaining, right?

[animea90]

I actually don't think those posts reflect badly on her. It shows that Citadel has an open relationship and allows their members to voice their opinions openly and honestly with each other.

You could say the exact same thing about any number of horrible things a person could say. If someone was insulting someone elses RL disability it would still show that Citadel members "voice their opinions openly and honestly with each other."(not saying they are, just an example) The openness of Citadel has NO bearing on what her comments say about herself or her alliance though. Citadel is open about how they feel behind closed doors. Thats great, but means nothing when talking about about how Reyne's opinions reflect upon herself.

I think it is interesting that everyone keeps saying she is very polite and nice in public, but then in private behaves very differently.

[Branimir]

Exactly, its left up to the reader. Some obviously see them negatively, some like yourself see such positively. That is not character assassination that seems to me to be actual reporting.

I do not believe that TWiP primary goal is to be of a reporting value.

[OneBallMan]

Say what you will, everything you just quoted me saying is the absolute truth. I will note with some degree of glee that you didn't outright deny my version of things.

If something is true, confirmation bias is simply reaffirmation and not something more nefarious. Gaslighting is more the Continuum modus operandi - I have no means to intimidate people into believing anything. All I have is my word. If I am found to be a liar, then my word means nothing and my only weapon is destroyed. Of course some of the people on your side accuse me of lying all the time, and of fabricating information. Those accusations have been found to be entirely false in every instance, however. Lies, in fact! Delicious, isn't it?

I'm sorry, when matching wits with the great Das Schwamm, sometimes I might get a little too subtle. That didn't happen, I deny it, and you are both incorrect and false. Sorry for not being clear. While noting your glee, I am sure it is frothy and mirthful, with just a hint of pulp, I do wonder when we begot His Royal Spongeness, Infallible and The Morally Righteous in all cases. Saying you are never wrong won't make it true. In the same way as the OP, I see that twisting context to suit a already consistent bias is, in fact, the path for Vox on PB, one that I can't deny getting gleeful about at times.

J'accuse.

[bbrownso]

So Slayer, maybe you ignored it, but what about that first night surrender huh? It's okay you got caught up in the moment of character assassination on ES or whatever but we still have some inquisitive minds here.

I know this often doesn't have a place on Planet Bob, but logically, shouldn't the accuser have the burden to prove his accusation is true? I've heard this accusation several times by various people. As of yet, I've gotten no evidence. I'm sure Sponge wouldn't allow such a wonderful tool slip through his digital fingers.

I followed Slayer from Fark to TF! to TPF. I'm trusting him until I'm proven otherwise.

Finally, and probably more importantly, I've talked to MegaArgos and he's working the Vox spais to get more interesting material for the next issue. I'm not sure if he picked up the sarcasm but at least we might get more drama. :lol:

Edit: "is" is your friend.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Brandon Simonson

[Denial]

I actually don't think those posts reflect badly on her. It shows that Citadel has an open relationship and allows their members to voice their opinions openly and honestly with each other.

What I find amusing is that the very same people that publicly lambaste The Grämlins for allowing their members to "voice their opinions openly and honestly" come out of the woodwork to valiantly defend innocent, gentle Reyne. However, what provokes that warm and fuzzy feeling inside is the fact that Reyne herself has been responsible for much of the aforementioned public lambasting (Grämlins' Codex announcement, anyone?).

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Everyone loves Vanguard? Oh man, thats a relief. After reading this thread I thought that some people didnt like us and I'd actually have to do my job to fix that. But, now that I know everyone loves us, I will go back to not doing anything.

I love Vanguard, they are lovable. You on the other hand.... well ok i will say it, i you too. Also, please do one of the Stumpy tl.dr; s for the thread.

[Bilrow]

What I find amusing is that the very same people that publicly lambaste The Grämlins for allowing their members to "voice their opinions openly and honestly" come out of the woodwork to valiantly defend innocent, gentle Reyne. However, what provokes that warm and fuzzy feeling inside is the fact that Reyne herself has been responsible for much of the aforementioned public lambasting (Grämlins' Codex announcement, anyone?).

Well, considering, that Reyne and I get along as much as oil and water, and she'd probably agree with that (maybe the only thing we've agreed on). I am not here defending anyone. I am however pointing out the hypocrisy of Vox fighting for the right to open and honest communication, yet they slam and "showcase" a group that allows it.

[HeinousOne]

There are various qualities of reporting, and opportunistic reporting such as this would find itself far away from the weakest reach of light--at the bottom. Then again, that's what people find entertaining, right?

They are reporting from their point of view. Groups with a differing point of view or more then welcome to put together their own pieces of work. In fact the NPO used to do such. They do not bother to reach out to the world anymore, guess they are above such. Vox doesn't seem to be feeling that way as they are more then willing to reach out and try to sway a few. Yes they showed the posts they wished to show, that is pretty much modern day reporting. Not saying that as a positive thing but comparitively speaking, this is indeed reporting. Biased reporting? Sure it may be, feel free to come up with your own pieces of work. You cannot refute that Schattenman and Co. put effort into these pieces of work for the public. Who else can say that these days?

Everyone wants to condemn but no one else is bringing much else to the plate except for "private channels ftw, everything else is irrelevant".

I do not believe that TWiP primary goal is to be of a reporting value.

That is your belief, as shown though even Bilrow disagreed with you about how Reyne's posts could be viewed. Whether you believe TWiP's goal is biased character assassination or the reporting of how things happen behind the scenes of these powerful blocs, they are bringing forth information. To me that is indeed reporting. Of course a competing publication could come out to counter such but I highly doubt anyone is willing to put in the time for such. Instead all we will see is the continued attempts to slander these attempts to add to the community here. Whether you like it or not, these publications bring the world together. Feel free to do such better.

Well, considering, that Reyne and I get along as much as oil and water, and she'd probably agree with that (maybe the only thing we've agreed on). I am not here defending anyone. I am however pointing out the hypocrisy of Vox fighting for the right to open and honest communication, yet they slam and "showcase" a group that allows it.

Are they really slamming The Citidel?

Edited March 27, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Bilrow]

That is your belief, as shown though even Bilrow disagreed with you about how Reyne's posts could be viewed. Whether you believe TWiP's goal is biased character assassination or the reporting of how things happen behind the scenes of these powerful blocs, they are bringing forth information. To me that is indeed reporting. Of course a competing publication could come out to counter such but I highly doubt anyone is willing to put in the time for such. Instead all we will see is the continued attempts to slander these attempts to add to the community here. Whether you like it or not, these publications bring the world together. Feel free to do such better.

I'd consider their "reporting" more akin to one of the grocery store tabloids that seem to have inundated my nation's cities with stories of visitors from outer space and me being pregnant or was it me being pregnant with an alien. I can't remember.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Bilrow

[Soccerbum]

I'd consider their "reporting" more akin to one of the grocery store tabloids that seem to have inundated my nation's cities with stories of visitors from outer space and me being pregnant or was it me being pregnant with an alien. I can't remember.

This should be the topic for next week's TWiP.

:lol:

Edited March 27, 2009 by soccerbum879

[HeinousOne]

I'd consider their "reporting" more akin to one of the grocery store tabloids that seem to have inundated my nation's cities with stories of visitors from outer space and me being pregnant or was it me being pregnant with an alien. I can't remember.

Then please bring back Sir Paul's publication or find someone to put one out instead of him. Instead of just saying their quality is low, show what high quality is.

That is what I am saying. Right now there is no grading scale so TWiP can be called anything.

[Bilrow]

Then please bring back Sir Paul's publication or find someone to put one out instead of him. Instead of just saying their quality is low, show what high quality is.

That is what I am saying. Right now there is no grading scale so TWiP can be called anything.

That is a valid point.

[TwistedRebelDB47]

DANGER, DANGER!

Be careful, or next thing you know you'll be politically isolat.. oh wait. No wonder you got Slaybaby all riled up!

[Stumpy Jung Il]

I love Vanguard, they are lovable. You on the other hand.... well ok i will say it, i you too. Also, please do one of the Stumpy tl.dr; s for the thread.

This thread will require far more posts, more stupidity, and more GGA for one of those to come out of the woodwork. Basically, I need more comedic material to work with. Now, if you can convince Valhalla to start posting again... well maybe we could get something going.

[Diogenes]

Come on guys, let's quit calling each other names and discuss this wonderfully controversial and well-written publication as friends. =^v^=

Edited March 27, 2009 by Quiziotle

[hizzy]

I actually don't think those posts reflect badly on her. It shows that Citadel has an open relationship and allows their members to voice their opinions openly and honestly with each other.

Then I suppose you agree with Sponge that it's not character assassination?

It's all either taken out of context and meant to demonize Reyne, or it's proof that Citadel has an open and secure relationship. You can't really use both defenses.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Then I suppose you agree with Sponge that it's not character assassination?

It's all either taken out of context and meant to demonize Reyne, or it's proof that Citadel has an open and secure relationship. You can't really use both defenses.

No, as someone that's read the entire threads from whence most of the screenshots came and has current access etc. , I think both work.

Vox appear to have pulled out the snippets of hers they consider or think someone (?) will consider the most offensive out of context to post. How else could that be described than as an attempt at character assassination or demonisation? Though it seems to have backfired spectacularly.

At the same time it's true Cit has an incredible relationship. It's not just the governments, it's the rank and file membership activity that is key, that other blocs in my experience lack. When there are issues sometimes the base membership of the alliances have to get together and straight out the .govs. Again, in my experience at least, unprecedented.

Cit

[hizzy]

No, as someone that's read the entire threads from whence most of the screenshots came and has current access etc. , I think both work.

Vox appear to have pulled out the snippets of hers they consider or think someone (?) will consider the most offensive out of context to post. How else could that be described than as an attempt at character assassination or demonisation? Though it seems to have backfired spectacularly.

At the same time it's true Cit has an incredible relationship. It's not just the governments, it's the rank and file membership activity that is key, that other blocs in my experience lack. When there are issues sometimes the base membership of the alliances have to get together and straight out the .govs. Again, in my experience at least, unprecedented.

You missed my point.

You see, given those screenshots of Reyne, we have some people claiming "oh, they're taken out of context, and they're meant to make her look bad when really she's not."

Then we have other people saying that they are in context, yet this is simply who/how Reyne is, and that it's not a detriment to Cit's relationship.

Those 2 are mutually exclusive. I suppose the only thing more delicious would be if the same person was making both arguments, but for some reason I wouldn't be surprised if someone already did, I'm just too lazy to go back and search.

[Joe Kremlin]

You missed my point.

You see, given those screenshots of Reyne, we have some people claiming "oh, they're taken out of context, and they're meant to make her look bad when really she's not."

Then we have other people saying that they are in context, yet this is simply who/how Reyne is, and that it's not a detriment to Cit's relationship.

Those 2 are mutually exclusive. I suppose the only thing more delicious would be if the same person was making both arguments, but for some reason I wouldn't be surprised if someone already did, I'm just too lazy to go back and search.

How can they be in context when you can only see her posts?

They're saying that you're basically not getting the whole story here.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Joe Kremlin

[hizzy]

How can they be in context when you can only see her posts?

They're saying that you're basically not getting the whole story here.

I wasn't the one claiming they were in context. From where I'm sitting there is no context at all, but there is the content of the posts which certainly isn't sunshine and lollipops under any circumstance.

My line of "Then we have other people saying that they are in context, yet this is simply who/how Reyne is, and that it's not a detriment to Cit's relationship." is referring to people who are defending Reyne.

I suppose I should apologize as well, my points come out as pretty much garbage without being able to go back and pull up references, but my head is bumpin something fierce right now.

[astronaut jones]

What I find amusing is that the very same people that publicly lambaste The Grämlins for allowing their members to "voice their opinions openly and honestly" come out of the woodwork to valiantly defend innocent, gentle Reyne. However, what provokes that warm and fuzzy feeling inside is the fact that Reyne herself has been responsible for much of the aforementioned public lambasting (Grämlins' Codex announcement, anyone?).

One of the best things about the gremlins (and I borrowed it when writing the original poison clan charter) was their freedom of speech. I think people should be allowed to express their opinions, even to allies, as long as it's not outright flaming. You can disagree and still be friends, afterall, and I think more alliances should take that approach to their speech and to their dealings with other alliances. Because, afterall, just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them your enemy.

edited because I'm stupid.

Edited March 27, 2009 by astronaut jones

[hizzy]

afterall, just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them your enemy.

I don't know what school of logic you apply to, good sir, but I will ask you to refrain from ruining this thread with such comments.

[astronaut jones]

So Slayer, maybe you ignored it, but what about that first night surrender huh? It's okay you got caught up in the moment of character assassination on ES or whatever but we still have some inquisitive minds here.

I was in TPF at the time, and although I wasn't government (atleast I don't think I was.. I could have been, I dunno, probably not though) I was there for all the internal stuff. I can't say whether or not the first night surrender thing is true, again, I don't think I was government, and even if I were I was never high up in TPF government when I actually WAS government, but I can say that we were woefully unprepared for war.

I had come back from \m/ about a month or so (give or take a week) prior to the UJW, because, let's face it, \m/ went nuts and they turned on each other internally, and even though I may speak out against TPF now, and even then, and .. really, all the time I guess, I kept going back to it because I did like it. I still like it, just as much as I like to criticize it.

Anyway.

From what I remember we were woefully unprepared for war. We simply ran out of money after about the 3rd or 4th day, and I sent out, being one of the top guys (in terms of NS) more aid than their banks did, just to keep people in the fight. I'm not sure about a first day surrender, but TPF wouldn't have lasted too much longer than the week it was in the fight, just because of the lack of funds. And I'm not even trying to spin that, there simply wasn't money in the fight, since this was at a time when warchests weren't the norm (no one had really learned from FAN yet.) EVEN THOUGH I TOLD YOU GUYS TO SAVE MONEY .

again, anyway.

[Haflinger]

Are they really slamming The Citidel?

This publication is attempting to make one of The Citadel's most public and vocal leaders look bad.

How can that not be taken as an attack on the institution?