Congratulations NPO!

[Branimir]

I don't think anyone can disagree with that. Congratulations.

Well thank you very much. Indeed, in the sum that is 1,000,000, 82k (going off SC number) send from MK is a little drop and obviously enough, while they are great at surrendering and keeping with their terms as you stated it wouldn't be fair to turn this thread about their surrendering skills only and not give a kudos to the NPO it self.

Attacking someone, demanding huge payment for the privilege of being attacked and then saying thanks is not sportsmanship. I don't believe we received a single PM from Polar nations telling us to go to hell – now I wonder why that might be rolleyes.gif

Well it is polite, at least if not sportsmanship like, to say thank you for something one is not really in a need to.

[Bob Janova]

Yes, it is polite, and well done for that. But Litha's post (and GTT's that she was agreeing with) was suggesting that MK were wrong to be pissed off about having to send that tech. The place for sportsmanship was considerably earlier

And yes, amassing a million tech is worthy of congratulation, so, congratulations.

[Litha Riddle]

Attacking someone, demanding huge payment for the privilege of being attacked and then saying thanks is not sportsmanship. I don't believe we received a single PM from Polar nations telling us to go to hell – now I wonder why that might be

Edit: And huge tech reparations are a 'standard' set by the Orders in the GPA and NADC wars. Huge reps in general are a standard set by the Initiative in GW3. Many alliances do not agree with it as can be seen with the widespread waiving of reps in the Polar/Hyperion war, and in the many instances of 'paid for reps' both during that war and since.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I see this in the same way I would see a football match. You play an opposing team, you may even throw in some dirty tactics, but eventually you win.

At the end the winning team gains a trophy to celebrate their victory and both teams shake hands and thank one another for participating. Of course the other team might be bitter that they aren't the ones with the trophy and they will not like that they lost due to some of those dirty tactics. But they will see it as something to learn from and play better next time.

That is what I mean by sportsmanship. The winners get to dictate the terms of their victory, it has been that way throughout history. If the time comes that we are not on the winning side, I am sure that myself and my comrades will accept what comes with that and work harder to avoid being given those terms again.

Repeating the exact same actions and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

But back to the point of my last comment. We were victorious, yet I felt it right to be gracious in that by at least thanking the rank and file of the alliance I fought that gave me tech.

I didn't have to, but I place manners and common decency as my core values. Everyone deserves to be treated like a human being, irregardless of which 'side' they are on, or which alliance they belong to.

I don't have double standards. I treat everyone I come across with that same respect. It is a shame that others cannot do the same, but alas they choose to hate me and my comrades simply for the AA we wear and the community that we fight for. They do not treat us with the same respect that I personally feel all humans are entitled to, just because we have been successful.

So yeah, don't let me interrupt the vitriol that my words will likely cause, since I have an opinion that is not allowed to be voiced. Since obviously the right to free speech is only applicable to those that don't reside in the Pacific.

[AllenKalashnikov]

Woe to the New Polar Order and any other self-bound slave who voluntarily chooses to kiss the feet of their NPO masters. Why anyone would cheer such an atrocity I will never know.

Hey Nod only kisses Moo Cows Hoofs.

[Electron Sponge]

I think you are misunderstanding me. I see this in the same way I would see a football match. You play an opposing team, you may even throw in some dirty tactics, but eventually you win.

At the end the winning team gains a trophy to celebrate their victory and both teams shake hands and thank one another for participating. Of course the other team might be bitter that they aren't the ones with the trophy and they will not like that they lost due to some of those dirty tactics. But they will see it as something to learn from and play better next time.

That is what I mean by sportsmanship. The winners get to dictate the terms of their victory, it has been that way throughout history. If the time comes that we are not on the winning side, I am sure that myself and my comrades will accept what comes with that and work harder to avoid being given those terms again.

Repeating the exact same actions and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

But back to the point of my last comment. We were victorious, yet I felt it right to be gracious in that by at least thanking the rank and file of the alliance I fought that gave me tech.

I didn't have to, but I place manners and common decency as my core values. Everyone deserves to be treated like a human being, irregardless of which 'side' they are on, or which alliance they belong to.

I don't have double standards. I treat everyone I come across with that same respect. It is a shame that others cannot do the same, but alas they choose to hate me and my comrades simply for the AA we wear and the community that we fight for. They do not treat us with the same respect that I personally feel all humans are entitled to, just because we have been successful.

So yeah, don't let me interrupt the vitriol that my words will likely cause, since I have an opinion that is not allowed to be voiced. Since obviously the right to free speech is only applicable to those that don't reside in the Pacific.

Your football analogy fails because when the game is over the winners don't get the losers' clothes, car, girlfriend, and mobile phone, and they don't stop the losing team from signing new players, getting new uniforms, or improving their home field.

I find it utterly laughable that a member of NPO can come in here and lecture anyone about sportsmanship. Sportsmanship means letting the other man up once you've beat him, and it means playing fair. NPO doesn't do either thing. I don't necessarily think that they HAVE to do those things, but you can't claim to be sporting at all.

[AllenKalashnikov]

Your football analogy fails because when the game is over the winners don't get the losers' clothes, car, girlfriend, and mobile phone, and they don't stop the losing team from signing new players, getting new uniforms, or improving their home field.

I find it utterly laughable that a member of NPO can come in here and lecture anyone about sportsmanship. Sportsmanship means letting the other man up once you've beat him, and it means playing fair. NPO doesn't do either thing. I don't necessarily think that they HAVE to do those things, but you can't claim to be sporting at all.

Edit: Wrong Names.

Edited March 23, 2009 by AllenKalashnikov

[o ya baby]

good job mushroom kingdom, without you this couldn't be possible!

[delendum]

I'm quite proud of this achievement.

Edited March 23, 2009 by delendum

[o ya baby]

I would have to agree. I am very proud to be a part of the alliance that made this a reality.

[tamerlane]

Im glad to have helped Pacifica reach this achievement through the raw banking power of the Mushroom Kingdom

[Litha Riddle]

Your football analogy fails because when the game is over the winners don't get the losers' clothes, car, girlfriend, and mobile phone, and they don't stop the losing team from signing new players, getting new uniforms, or improving their home field.

I find it utterly laughable that a member of NPO can come in here and lecture anyone about sportsmanship. Sportsmanship means letting the other man up once you've beat him, and it means playing fair. NPO doesn't do either thing. I don't necessarily think that they HAVE to do those things, but you can't claim to be sporting at all.

Actually my analogy is more applicable in that sense. Since if its a relegation match, the losers will lose their place and get less funding and rewards for their wins, and that will have an impact on players wages and what players they can buy.

Not to mention that at the end of a match, it is common practice to swap shirts. And in sports, people don't play fair. Those that are better sportsmen wont let the other side win just because it would be fair. Fair doesn't come into it at all. The whole point of sport is to compete against each other, and the better man/woman will win.

In life there are the winners and losers. It isn't fair, but thats the way it is. In wars outside of Planet Bob, you don't see countries deciding to send the same amount of soldiers to a battle, just because that would be fair.

The aim of a war is to win, and to make sure it doesn't happen again.

If you lose, you rebuild and you try a new way, and either learn to coexist or to defeat your enemy.

Same with football. If you lose and get sent down to another league table, you don't sit there and cry about unfairness. Instead you train harder, try new tactics and even replace players.

If you want us to suddenly decide that its unfair for us to keep winning, and to let you have your turn (just because it would be fair), you are living in fantasy.

But whatever, continue on your 'NPO is evil, and their members all eat souls' crusade. Since being decent to someone else, even though they are your enemy obviously doesn't apply to everyone.

I am not here to lecture anyone else, or to represent what my alliance thinks or feels about this issue.

I was excercising my right to free speech, but as I predicted, that is only for those not carrying the black and blue.

[o ya baby]

Yeah, sorry. That football analogy is terrible. Don't sit here and try to defend it with broken logic. If you play against a team in football and lose, you don't force them to pay you money, give up their training equipment and stuff like that. You practice, you play, you shake hands and you play again later. Losing with NPO is like you get your practice sabotaged, you play, they cheat, then you have to give them your food, water, training equipment and you're not allowed to practice for a few months while they get better than you.

[Haflinger]

Yeah, sorry. That football analogy is terrible. Don't sit here and try to defend it with broken logic. If you play against a team in football and lose, you don't force them to pay you money, give up their training equipment and stuff like that. You practice, you play, you shake hands and you play again later. Losing with NPO is like you get your practice sabotaged, you play, they cheat, then you have to give them your food, water, training equipment and you're not allowed to practice for a few months while they get better than you.

So it's like playing against Chelsea?

[Electron Sponge]

Actually my analogy is more applicable in that sense. Since if its a relegation match, the losers will lose their place and get less funding and rewards for their wins, and that will have an impact on players wages and what players they can buy.

ooc - I will admit that we were probably talking about two different kinds of football. Two nations separated by a common language, etc. You don't see that sort of thing here. Is the relegated team forced to hand over the players they do have and any spare revenue they may have gained to another side, as well as any ancillary equipment they might have purchased? This is an honest question.

Not to mention that at the end of a match, it is common practice to swap shirts. And in sports, people don't play fair. Those that are better sportsmen wont let the other side win just because it would be fair. Fair doesn't come into it at all. The whole point of sport is to compete against each other, and the better man/woman will win.

ooc- Okay, so they swap shirts. Is the losing side forced to hand over their shirts or they get pummeled in the parking lot by that team and several other teams?

In life there are the winners and losers. It isn't fair, but thats the way it is. In wars outside of Planet Bob, you don't see countries deciding to send the same amount of soldiers to a battle, just because that would be fair.

The aim of a war is to win, and to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Nations also don't continue on with wars long after their opponents have plead for peace and are unable to fight back simply for the purpose of keeping them destitute and unable to provide for their citizenry.

If you lose, you rebuild and you try a new way, and either learn to coexist or to defeat your enemy.

Same with football. If you lose and get sent down to another league table, you don't sit there and cry about unfairness. Instead you train harder, try new tactics and even replace players.

Your opponents don't show up and break the legs of your players as they are signed to the roster to keep you from winning.

If you want us to suddenly decide that its unfair for us to keep winning, and to let you have your turn (just because it would be fair), you are living in fantasy.

I never said that. What I said is that you cannot characterize what you do as sporting.

But whatever, continue on your 'NPO is evil, and their members all eat souls' crusade. Since being decent to someone else, even though they are your enemy obviously doesn't apply to everyone.

I honestly can't believe you can sit here and use decent in a sentence as an adjective to describe the New Pacific Order. None of the treatment my alliancemates and I have suffered at the hands of your alliance can be characterized as decent, fair, or sporting. This includes the myriad of harassing messages we receive on a daily basis from your ilk calling us all sorts of names and gloating over a victory they've likely made no contribution to while sitting in an alliance they had no hand in building. Ironically enough when they send them to me I'm one of the ones who actually had a hand in building it to where it is.

I am not here to lecture anyone else, or to represent what my alliance thinks or feels about this issue.

Your six paragraph exposition on this topic flies in the face of this statement. What was it but a lecture?

I was excercising my right to free speech, but as I predicted, that is only for those not carrying the black and blue.

No one's stopping you from speaking. Don't think you can say some drivel like you just did and not get hotly opposed.

[Bob Janova]

You play an opposing team, you may even throw in some dirty tactics, but eventually you win. ... Of course the other team might be bitter that they aren't the ones with the trophy and they will not like that they lost due to some of those dirty tactics.

...

That is what I mean by sportsmanship

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Edit: also, your second and third posts reinforce the idea that you are talking about winning, not about sportsmanship. And your analogy is terrible. Winning a football match does not entitle you to asset-strip the other club.

And you have free speech. Just like the rest of us. An NPOer trying to play the victim is quite funny considering that there is nothing anyone can do to stop you expressing yourself freely even if they wanted to.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Bob Janova

[GTTofAK]

I believe GW2 was the first time anything other than white peace was offered, the precedent has been set by NPO.

No

[lebubu]

I'm glad I paid for some of the tech that went to our Pacifican Masters.

*lebubu wipes a tear of joy from his eye

[Electron Sponge]

I'm glad I paid for some of the tech that went to our Pacifican Masters.

*lebubu wipes a tear of joy from his eye

While you're crying perhaps you'd like to hear a rousing rendition of

? It will bring tears and inspiration.

Also regarding Mogar's statement a while back about NPO setting the precedent for anything other than a white peace - we did that when we installed Tygaland as Viceroy of NAAC after the First Polar War.

[Bilrow]

While you're crying perhaps you'd like to hear a rousing rendition of

? It will bring tears and inspiration.

Also regarding Mogar's statement a while back about NPO setting the precedent for anything other than a white peace - we did that when we installed Tygaland as Viceroy of NAAC after the First Polar War.

Or how about the oath ODN had to swear to Moldavi/NPO after the Citrus Wars. We should bring that back.

The ODN accepted the NPO's third terms of surrender by General Assembly vote (68%) on April 12th, which required ODN nations to take an oath of non-aggression and pay a reparation sum of 500,000 dollars (back then, it was a lot of money) but allowed for nuclear weapons to be owned by ODN nations.

Citrus War

Edited March 23, 2009 by Bilrow

[Portugal]

Or how about the oath ODN had to swear to Moldavi/NPO after the Citrus Wars. We should bring that back.

Citrus War

Hey I remember doing that.

[Litha Riddle]

ooc - I will admit that we were probably talking about two different kinds of football. Two nations separated by a common language, etc. You don't see that sort of thing here. Is the relegated team forced to hand over the players they do have and any spare revenue they may have gained to another side, as well as any ancillary equipment they might have purchased? This is an honest question.

OOC:

Yes, I did mean the soccer football

And yes, when they get relegated they lose income, and they get their best players poached by the teams that can afford to buy them. Even if the player doesn't want to move, they get forced out virtually since if they don't transfer the team they belong to gets financially penalised.

And if they get moved down the tables, they wont get the same standard of equipment, since as you may know most teams get sponsored either by shareholders or companies. Take for instance Notts County, compare their grounds and training with Manchester United. Because they no longer win, they get less. Which essentially amounts to the same thing, since one team gets the money and new grounds and rewards, and the losers get players poached and their grounds sold off. /OOC

ooc- Okay, so they swap shirts. Is the losing side forced to hand over their shirts or they get pummeled in the parking lot by that team and several other teams?

OOC:

No, but if they refuse to swap shirts, then they get seen as the bad team and will lose supporters or will cause hostility and fighting amongst their fans. I assume you've seen the football fights that are unfortunately more and more common. /OOC

Nations also don't continue on with wars long after their opponents have plead for peace and are unable to fight back simply for the purpose of keeping them destitute and unable to provide for their citizenry.

But they do impose sanctions which cripple a nations economy, which in most cases means the government will starve the populace so that they may further their own agenda's. ooc: For instance Iraq after the first Gulf war.

Your opponents don't show up and break the legs of your players as they are signed to the roster to keep you from winning.

But opposing players will sometimes deliberately injure other players to prevent them playing. Which of course does sometimes include broken legs.

I never said that. What I said is that you cannot characterize what you do as sporting.

We play hard, and we win. But at the end of the day I've never rubbed that defeat in anyone's face. I personally haven't insulted another player for being on the losing side. That is what I consider sportsmanship. We play, one of us wins, but I try to shake hands and move on.

I honestly can't believe you can sit here and use decent in a sentence as an adjective to describe the New Pacific Order. None of the treatment my alliancemates and I have suffered at the hands of your alliance can be characterized as decent, fair, or sporting. This includes the myriad of harassing messages we receive on a daily basis from your ilk calling us all sorts of names and gloating over a victory they've likely made no contribution to while sitting in an alliance they had no hand in building. Ironically enough when they send them to me I'm one of the ones who actually had a hand in building it to where it is.

I was actually using that to describe my own actions and other people's response to myself.

I don't represent my alliance, I represent myself. Just because you have had people send you bad words, does not mean that I myself have done such things. I am responsible for my own actions, and even though we have different views on what is right, I do not hate you as a person. And I would never treat you with disrespect. I will argue my case and if it doesn't convince you, I agree to disagree. Since you have just as much right as I, to be treat with decency and respect.

Your six paragraph exposition on this topic flies in the face of this statement. What was it but a lecture?

I will admit, I tend to speak from the heart. I don't censor my thoughts or my words, so sometimes I can get carried away and end up with a paragraph when I intended to write just a sentence. >_<

So yes, it wasn't intended to be lecturing, I just felt strongly about what I was saying and my lack of writing skills may have deviated it from its intended course :/

No one's stopping you from speaking. Don't think you can say some drivel like you just did and not get hotly opposed.

I do not find objection with being opposed. I just innocently thought that people might actually treat me with the same courtesy that I extended to them. I accept their right to free speech, so I was naive in thinking that was universal.

I know I'm not the only one that can feel strongly about things, but I do try to avoid insults, call it my British obsessive need to be polite.

[DinendelDucky]

Please stop trying to defend the bad analogy.

[Blacky]

For the love of admin Litha, let the analogy go. It's really that bad.

[Proxian Empire]

What kind of ridiculous analogy is this? In football when a team like Manchester United or Liverpool FC crush a lesser team (such as Hull City or Newcastle) into dust they don't get to demand half the stadium's income for some set time period. Dirty tricks are generally penalised by refs, and you will never see Chelsea or Arsenal jump on to the field to assist in the pummelling of the lesser team and then tell Hull City or Newcastle to pay the wages of the winning players for failing to win the match.

There is nothing sportsmanlike in demanding a crushing reparation from an alliance that stood up to you in the fiercest manner solely out of revenge and dislike. Sportsmanship behaviour is shaking the losers' hands and claiming the trophy, not kicking the ball at the losers' heads and then claiming everything they own. You are a ridiculous person Litha.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited March 23, 2009 by King Penchuk

[Gobb]

Indeed, in the sum that is 1,000,000, 82k (going off SC number) send from MK is a little drop--

But hey, since it's such a little drop, why not give the tech back to us.

Edit fffff

Edited March 23, 2009 by Lord Gobb