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Probationary Zero Infrastructure (PrZI)


ironchef

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Spying is only a crime of the worst sort IC and this is an OOC forum.

Anywho, this is pretty much exactly what most of us who only use ZI and not PZI or EZI already do, except without forcing people to sign off on something. It's not like it's hard to keep track of people without requiring them to report to you.

Congratulations on figuring out ZI though.

I agree with the cupcake.

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I don't have a problem with any alliance, but the fact that the former GGA Triumvir, now a .gov member of Valhalla, who once used a no-CB on an alliance because they aided a reroll saying the bolded sentence above in the context that it is said in makes me chuckle just a bit. 6 months too late my friends.

Just to clarify one or two things. I have not been a GGA Triumvir for quite some time now, and was not a Triumvir at the time of the last war. Nor am I a member of Valhalla government. And as far as I’m concerned it’s never too late to change.

Like I said before it may not be the best idea but it’s an idea, something to build on. To just say “this idea sucks because there should be no Pzi or Ezi” is a waste of time.

The way things are now there is going to be Pzi and Ezi and all the !@#$%*ing will not change it. Time and wisdom is the only thing that will.

Till then I think an idea that would allow someone on Pzi to come out of peace mode, join an alliance, prove they are no longer a trouble maker, and grow their nation is far better than just saying No Pzi no Ezi!! and them still have to sit there in peace mode. Don’t like the idea, come up with another one. Put your back into it boys :P

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I'd have to say with my experience with ZI's, this doesn't seem viable. The initial problem is to get all alliances in question to go along with the whole document. It's been my experience that most alliances tend to shoot first and ask questions later. If anything, just think of it in terms of ease of use; it's way easier to turn down someone sentenced to a temp ZI or blow them up yourself before talking to another alliance leader about one's behavior.

I also miss Ironchef's old avatar :(. *waves regardless*

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Till then I think an idea that would allow someone on Pzi to come out of peace mode, join an alliance, prove they are no longer a trouble maker, and grow their nation is far better than just saying No Pzi no Ezi!! and them still have to sit there in peace mode. Don’t like the idea, come up with another one. Put your back into it boys

Letting someone on PZI off and giving him a chance to prove himself isn't something that you need a new type of ZI for, just a bit of mercy.

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The way things are now there is going to be Pzi and Ezi and all the !@#$%*ing will not change it. Time and wisdom is the only thing that will.

Till then I think an idea that would allow someone on Pzi to come out of peace mode, join an alliance, prove they are no longer a trouble maker, and grow their nation is far better than just saying No Pzi no Ezi!! and them still have to sit there in peace mode. Don’t like the idea, come up with another one. Put your back into it boys :P

Probational ZI won't work because it's ultimately the same thing as PZI and EZI. If the alliance sentencing the particular nation feels like releasing that nation from the terms, then they will. This simply makes it Probational ZI. All you're doing is changing the name of the current situation.

The only actual idea is to remove PZI and EZI as a whole. The process can't be taken in steps because there are no steps to take other than the one that completes the process.

Edited by Drai
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Just to clarify one or two things. I have not been a GGA Triumvir for quite some time now, and was not a Triumvir at the time of the last war. Nor am I a member of Valhalla government. And as far as I’m concerned it’s never too late to change.

Perhaps not. We all read the logs when you and CJ tried to blackmail Hyperion though. Political power is political power, regardless of titles. Of course, nobody will claim that you can't change, but I think you should expects at least a few comments connecting your suggestion here with what you did during your time in GGA. I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from with this.

On to the matter though:

Like I said before it may not be the best idea but it’s an idea, something to build on. To just say “this idea sucks because there should be no Pzi or Ezi” is a waste of time.

The way things are now there is going to be Pzi and Ezi and all the !@#$%*ing will not change it. Time and wisdom is the only thing that will.

Till then I think an idea that would allow someone on Pzi to come out of peace mode, join an alliance, prove they are no longer a trouble maker, and grow their nation is far better than just saying No Pzi no Ezi!! and them still have to sit there in peace mode. Don’t like the idea, come up with another one. Put your back into it boys :P

I do believe the idea has been brought to the table multiple times, and I believe it's the best common denominator.

KISS = keep it simple, stupid

If an alliance is willing to let people on their PZI/EZI list go on probation provided they complete this obstacle course of paperwork and (to be blunt) bureaucratic BS, why can't that same alliance simple let the target go, and then re-engage them in the off-chance that they go back to their shenanigans?

Your Probation requires, in essence, that the home-alliance of your PrZI target agree that he deserves to be re-ZI'd, right? Now, if they agree with your decision to re-ZI him, he gets ZI'd again. But in the case that they don't agree then you have an alliance vs alliance issue.

How is this any different than our/my suggestion to simple let the target go, and go after him on your own if he screws up, without the paperwork hassle? In my scenario, you would still need to approach the home-alliance, and they would still need to agree with your assessment that he deserves to get ZI'd again.

So again, why do we need the paper work and bureaucratic nonsense?

Just let them go.

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Do you classify DDoS attacks under OOC? I believe that short of an actual OOC insult, that's about as bad as an attack as anyone can do, and therefor not deserving of any hope of peace. ever.

This is an OOC attack yes, but it's not what I was talking about here. That is an attack on personal property and should be handled outside the game mechanics. The type of OOC attacks I was referring to are attacks on a person such as logs being dumped on the OWF where you have told someone in privet about a real life illness and they use it as a weapon of hurt and humiliation in game.

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This is an OOC attack yes, but it's not what I was talking about here. That is an attack on personal property and should be handled outside the game mechanics. The type of OOC attacks I was referring to are attacks on a person such as logs being dumped on the OWF where you have told someone in privet about a real life illness and they use it as a weapon of hurt and humiliation in game.

If someone actually did something that could cause harm to one of the players in real life, then the moderation staff would definitely be in charge of dealing with it. There's simply no need for PZI and EZI because any offense worthy of those punishments would be dealt with promptly.

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This is an OOC attack yes, but it's not what I was talking about here. That is an attack on personal property and should be handled outside the game mechanics. The type of OOC attacks I was referring to are attacks on a person such as logs being dumped on the OWF where you have told someone in privet about a real life illness and they use it as a weapon of hurt and humiliation in game.

You know, that'd be something for the Mod team to handle, not any alliance.

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Do you classify DDoS attacks under OOC? I believe that short of an actual OOC insult, that's about as bad as an attack as anyone can do, and therefor not deserving of any hope of peace. ever.

Short of an OOC insult? Really? You realize that DDoS attacks are technically criminal within the United States, right? So what you're saying, in essence, is that insulting someone is worse than breaking U.S. law? Insults typically aren't kind to make - I'll give you that much. No one that I know really "likes" being insulted, and that is understandable...but still, they're not a huge deal. I certainly hope that the general consensus of CN isn't that making fun of someone is worse than attacking someone's property outside the game.

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Short of an OOC insult? Really? You realize that DDoS attacks are technically criminal within the United States, right? So what you're saying, in essence, is that insulting someone is worse than breaking U.S. law? Insults typically aren't kind to make - I'll give you that much. No one that I know really "likes" being insulted, and that is understandable...but still, they're not a huge deal. I certainly hope that the general consensus of CN isn't that making fun of someone is worse than attacking someone's property outside the game.

I believe you misread his post.

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This....

I've got an awesome idea, what about keeping ZI and PZI for only the worst crimes, like when it was originally handed out, so we don't have to have some complex system of signing off and whatnot that most of us won't pay attention to anyways.

And this....

I think you should spend a few months with an alliance over your shoulder watching your every move making sure you don't get accepted to certain alliances and making sure you don't hold certain positions before coming up with this kind of crap.

All this is is a way to take a crime that once constituted a few weeks of war and keeping it a sentence that will hang over the person's head forever. You state that people change, and then spell out another policy which will prevent people from being able to change and rejoin the game properly unless you decide they can. This is no improvement at all, just more of the same abuses of power with a different hat on.

Is this for real? Do you really think people are going to consider an action such as this merciful? All this will allow is the ability to attach harsher punishments to people that were originally destined for traditional ZI. I do not believe those already doomed to EZI will be offered any refuge by this system.

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I believe you misread his post.
Do you classify DDoS attacks under OOC? I believe that short of an actual OOC insult, that's about as bad as an attack as anyone can do, and therefor not deserving of any hope of peace. ever.

The bold above suggests that insulting someone OOC is worse than a DDoS attack. He stated they both were bad, and I have no argument there, but to imply that insulting someone is worse than attacking their property outside of the game is pretty outrageous.

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The bold above suggests that insulting someone OOC is worse than a DDoS attack. He stated they both were bad, and I have no argument there, but to imply that insulting someone is worse than attacking their property outside of the game is pretty outrageous.

Looks like I misread then, my apologies.

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