The White Cross

[Centurius]

The war THEY started.

Let them starve.

Opinions from an idiot obviously while they started the war innocent citizens are not and never will be responsible.

"Though I must remind everyone here that we are doing this hopefully not for these governments to rebuild their strength and power though this aid, but as to help the citizenry that has suffered so much. However this may be very well impossible and given the past that these were aggressive nations we can adjust the amount of aid. Given the circumstances would the nations approve that we decrease the aid to Germany and the UFE to 4% and increase the Rebel Army and Alvonia's each by 2% if that would be appropriate?" Then turning to the Vinilandese ambassador she sighed. "I understand your concern, but the world is still very biased and we must make sure to keep the votes from turning to nay's. You're country is doing an amazing job at stabilizing many of those nations and though we will not receive as much aid as previously hoped. Hopefully after Rebel Army and Alvonia are repaired we can turn full attention to the other needy countries."

We personally vote against this said nations already are receiving a lot of aid lowering the amount to the UFE and Germany can prove terrible to their citizens, the problem mentioned can be solved by an overseer.

[JEDCJT]

The war THEY started.

Let them starve.

Ah, but two wrongs doesnt make a right. Although what they did was terrible, it doesnt necessarily mean the citizens had a part in this, so to say.

[Uberstein]

Opinions from an idiot obviously while they started the war innocent citizens are not and never will be responsible.

Their civilians support their government, do they not? If a people are truly not responsible for the actions of a government that means it is a non democratic nation that is simply a toy for it's leader. If a government does not serve it's people then it is the people's responsibility to at least attempt to replace that government. People have both Rights AND Responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is to look after themselves and make a nation that represents them.

Even Mariehamm Arms is a democracy, anyone in our company can buy stock, allowing them a direct say in our company's actions.

The only way I will fund resources going to these states is if it is funding revolutionaries. I may be an arms dealer, but at least I recognize the fact that a nation is not a toy for the elite, my time in Ubersteinia taught me that lesson many times. All that will happen if we fund the nations that started this war is that their leaders will use the funds to rebuild their military and start another wave of imperalism, and give them a message they world will pay for their arrogance no matter the cost.

Edited March 10, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Centurius]

Their civilians support their government, do they not? If a people are truly not responsible for the actions of a government that means it is a non democratic nation that is simply a toy for it's leader. If a government does not serve it's people then it is the people's responsibility to at least attempt to replace that government. People have both Rights AND Responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is to look after themselves and make a nation that represents them.

Even Mariehamm Arms is a democracy, anyone in our company can buy stock, allowing them a direct say in our company's actions.

The only way I will fund resources going to these states is if it is funding revolutionaries. I may be an arms dealer, but at least I recognize the fact that a nation is not a toy for the elite, my time in Ubersteinia taught me that lesson many times.

While we understand your opinion a starving people cannot oppose Governments before they are even capable of making a change they need care, the statement still stand the innocent Civilians are not responsible and deserve money. In stead of letting us decide amounts I feel it is better if we give a completely unbiased party full authorization as such I propose Lady Tintagyl will be allowed to allocate funds herself.

[Uberstein]

While we understand your opinion a starving people cannot oppose Governments before they are even capable of making a change they need care, the statement still stand the innocent Civilians are not responsible and deserve money. In stead of letting us decide amounts I feel it is better if we give a completely unbiased party full authorization as such I propose Lady Tintagyl will be allowed to allocate funds herself.

How to we even make SURE that the money will go to them? These people have to way to speak, no way to represent themselves. Their government will simply seize the funds for their own rebuilding. What do you suggest, an international police force to monitor how these dictatorships treat their people? An impossibility.

If there was a way you could guarantee that the funds would reach the people, and be used in their benefit, I would agree to fund them.

[Lynneth]

Their civilians support their government, do they not? If a people are truly not responsible for the actions of a government that means it is a non democratic nation that is simply a toy for it's leader. If a government does not serve it's people then it is the people's responsibility to at least attempt to replace that government. People have both Rights AND Responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is to look after themselves and make a nation that represents them.

I have to agree with this. Canada is founded on the principles of true democracy, rights and responsibilities for its citizens. Without being responsible, a citizen cannot earn his rights.

[Centurius]

How to we even make SURE that the money will go to them? These people have to way to speak, no way to represent themselves. Their government will simply seize the funds for their own rebuilding. What do you suggest, an international police force to monitor how these dictatorships treat their people? An impossibility.

If there was a way you could guarantee that the funds would reach the people, and be used in their benefit, I would agree to fund them.

In fact I have suggested establishing an overseer and I see no need to directly give it to Governments we should fund organizations we know only sending in actual supplies.

[Uberstein]

In fact I have suggested establishing an overseer and I see no need to directly give it to Governments we should fund organizations we know only sending in actual supplies.

Well, if the UFE and fake Germany accept these terms, then I will personally applaud them and donate another billion to the program. When the aid manages to help the people directly, then it is worth it. But if any of it goes towards repairing the military or government of these nations, then the charities aren't even worth donating my used toilet paper too.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

"Ladies and Gentlemen, please order for a moment." Sarah said pounding the gavel against the table bringing an awkward silence to the room. "We cannot ignore the fact that both Germany and the UFE are authoritarian governments, though that should hold no bias we must be careful because philosophically the citizens, or rather subjects of those countries have few rights. However that does not take them away from being part of humanity. No the Imperial Union representative proposed sending an unbiased party and I will be more than willing to travel to both of these countries and install a White Cross Ambassador, naturally if any of you are open to this responsibility, but if the said nation is caught using our funds towards military funding, all aid will be removed and that nation will not be eligible for aid, until massive reforms are begun in said nation."

"In addition we are still voting on direct allocation of aid."

OOC: Lynneth, could you PM me that GNP formula so I can find out how much people have for their budget, so I can post just how much aid we're actually sending. Also if any of you want to do that for yourselves...I'd really appreciate it.

[Subtleknifewielder]

"Promised Land will approve any measure or ammendment necessary that will keep our fellow members of this organization from denying aid to those who need it."

[Uberstein]

OOC: I'm sending money from my arm sales, lol.

[Silhouette]

"Alternatively, we could spend the money on supplies for the nations in question, and provide the people with food, medical, and rebuilding supplies directly. Just a thought, but something to be considered nonetheless."

[DeSchaine]

Seamus leans forward and raps lightly in the table. "Ladies and gents, if I may... The Order of St. Patrick has for years struggled with the very same question: how do we make sure the funds go where they are needed? The idea of an overseer of sorts is not new, and is actually a fairly good one. But, one cannot just hand out money, assign the overseer and expect things to go correctly. The OSP has hit upon a solution. We work only with local companies, suppliers and contractors in the affected areas."

"I offer an example. The people of Village X have suffered from a war that has destroyed much. We send in a team of estimators. They get together with the locals and prioritize the buildings and services that need to be rebuilt. Area contractors are given the opportunity to bid, show designs and the winning one is funded. Many times, the only government officials we deal with are zoning and planning people."

"Now, does this take longer? Yes, in some cases. Most times, the people already know what they want, so the process is quicker. Does it create more paperwork? Again, yes. Also, we have larger manpower needs. But, I say it is all worth it. We know for a fact that 94 percent of our funds, allocated in this manner, reach the actual projects and people. Why not 100? Well, we also admit that in certain areas, wheels do need to be greased, so to speak."

Muldoon sat down, taking a sip of his tea, looking around and trying to judge the reactions on the faces.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"History teaches us that remembering the government and forgetting the suffering innocent civilian under that regime can often result in far worse rising in their stead. I encourage that the UFE, Tahoe, and the German Republic... regardless of their aggressive role in this last conflict, still be considered for relief. However, the relief should be heavily monitored to ensure it is going to its proper ends."

[Centurius]

"History teaches us that remembering the government and forgetting the suffering innocent civilian under that regime can often result in far worse rising in their stead. I encourage that the UFE, Tahoe, and the German Republic... regardless of their aggressive role in this last conflict, still be considered for relief. However, the relief should be heavily monitored to ensure it is going to its proper ends."

The Imperial Union supports this

[Sarah Tintagyl]

"Then if it were possible maybe this council would be willing to select various ambassadors from our nations to send them as overseers and to calculate just how much aid would need to be sent so that extra aid does not find its way into the pockets of military corporations. If it would please all of you, I would suggest having one diplomat from every one off our countries go to these zones and take estimations, however if that is two much then maybe we can elect certain nations to provide that. As the Imperial representative said, nations that do not hold bias against the others. I would volunteer myself, but that would be an upset to our democratic principles here, so a vote may also be placed whether every country should have to send or just a couple and then which ones." Turning to the Dragonisian representatives Sarah nodded. "And I agree with what you say about history, it is imperative that we do not turn our backs on anyone at this time. Least we cause more problems down the road."

[HHAYD]

We are willing to send diplomats to oversee the reconstruction.

[yeerk5]

Association will as well.

[DeSchaine]

"I as well agree with the Dragonisian contingent and with the Prime Minister. I can safely say that Taeunas will send a represenitive on each mission. Being that the OSP is apolitical, it will most likely be one of my people that goes as the Taeunas rep." Muldoon paused to take a sip of tea. "If there are others that want to, we would have no problem helping to train others for the same jobs."

[Sarah Tintagyl]

"Then we can safely say that all ambassador jobs for the White Cross will be strictly volunteer then? Because I have no distinct problems with that as long as you all approve. Secondly, the representative from New Cyrmu has brought up a solution to the problem indefinitely. Instead of giving these countries a lump sum of money, if we use the money to buy the aid ourselves and then ship, food, water, building supplies, over that way, weapons would be a lot harder to come by, unless the governments were to resale our aid for weapons. Which then the ambassadors could step in."

[V The King]

The war THEY started.

Let them starve.

"Ah, but you could most certainly argue... that Herr Martens escalated the war to nuclear heights as well!

However, dare we say, it is hardly relevant who initiated or escalated the war. We are not here to assist those who we perceive to be "good" and leave those perceived to be "bad" in misery - but to assist those who are in deep plight."

[DeSchaine]

"Then we can safely say that all ambassador jobs for the White Cross will be strictly volunteer then? Because I have no distinct problems with that as long as you all approve. Secondly, the representative from New Cyrmu has brought up a solution to the problem indefinitely. Instead of giving these countries a lump sum of money, if we use the money to buy the aid ourselves and then ship, food, water, building supplies, over that way, weapons would be a lot harder to come by, unless the governments were to resale our aid for weapons. Which then the ambassadors could step in."

"But, those shipping costs eat into our coffers. By using local materials from local merchents, we are doing even more for the recovery because we are dumping the money into the local economies directly. Granted, some things may have to be bought and delivered, but I'm sure a majority of the things needed could be had in the areas around the affected zones."

"We send our overseers, they go in, make the estimates, then release the funds on a needed basis. Say the first thing is a rebuild of a water purification plant. the estimates are made, contractors give the bids. Local materials are used. The total cost is something like $3.5M. The overseer or ambassador or whatever sees this, and releases the precise amount of funds, all of it in the area where it is needed most. Then the companies can use the money we paid them for their goods and use it to buy other things that they need, and pay their workers."

[HHAYD]

"But, those shipping costs eat into our coffers. By using local materials from local merchents, we are doing even more for the recovery because we are dumping the money into the local economies directly. Granted, some things may have to be bought and delivered, but I'm sure a majority of the things needed could be had in the areas around the affected zones."

"We send our overseers, they go in, make the estimates, then release the funds on a needed basis. Say the first thing is a rebuild of a water purification plant. the estimates are made, contractors give the bids. Local materials are used. The total cost is something like $3.5M. The overseer or ambassador or whatever sees this, and releases the precise amount of funds, all of it in the area where it is needed most. Then the companies can use the money we paid them for their goods and use it to buy other things that they need, and pay their workers."

Before we send the money in, we should examine the local companies and see how much they charge. After we buy the local supplies, we then check how much money we spent and examine the budget with the supply pricing to locate any corruptions.

[Subtleknifewielder]

"But, those shipping costs eat into our coffers. By using local materials from local merchents, we are doing even more for the recovery because we are dumping the money into the local economies directly. Granted, some things may have to be bought and delivered, but I'm sure a majority of the things needed could be had in the areas around the affected zones."

"We send our overseers, they go in, make the estimates, then release the funds on a needed basis. Say the first thing is a rebuild of a water purification plant. the estimates are made, contractors give the bids. Local materials are used. The total cost is something like $3.5M. The overseer or ambassador or whatever sees this, and releases the precise amount of funds, all of it in the area where it is needed most. Then the companies can use the money we paid them for their goods and use it to buy other things that they need, and pay their workers."

An excellent idea. As you say, though, some materials will simply need to be shipped."

Before we send the money in, we should examine the local companies and see how much they charge. After we buy the local supplies, we then check how much money we spent and examine the budget with the supply pricing to locate any corruptions.

"This...is an excellent suggestion."

[DeSchaine]

Before we send the money in, we should examine the local companies and see how much they charge. After we buy the local supplies, we then check how much money we spent and examine the budget with the supply pricing to locate any corruptions.

"Obviously, the first part would happen. But, after that, the costs of the materials would be worked into the budget allocated, along side the contractor bids as well as other costs. The whole thing comes packaged nice and neat, with a strict control by our ambassadors-slash-represenitives on when and how much of the money is released."