Declaration of War

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: No. I'm sorry LVN, I BELIEVE you just lost a supercruiser.. if you guys are not going to let me take back my actions, by god, you're not. Take your hit on the chin my man. You just lost a super cruiser. And remember, before you get angry, you can thank Mudd and UFE for the laws of consequence.. I'd let you retract this normally because I like making people happy and making RP's quality, but that's not the treatment I've received of late, so I expect equitable standards.

OOC: Ok then, if its not in the factbook, it never was included, so your missiles have no dynamic tracking, so my supercruiser could make even a 5 degree turn and survive.

And if I have to lose a super cruiser, I'll take the loss. Why do you think I would get angry about it?

[Shadowsage]

OOC: A Missile, by definition, is guided. If it was unguided he would have said Rocket.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: The above is correct.

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: A Missile, by definition, is guided. If it was unguided he would have said Rocket.

There is a difference between guided to a pre determined point, and the ability to self guide to a moving point. I assume the former as they were described as cruise missiles, and cruise missiles, as a rule only have the ability to be guided to static targets.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: Unless you happen to be in an anti-naval role. like the excocet I linked to previously.. then you are intricately programmed to track.. and if you're not a kinetic kill missile you even do special anti-missile system weapon evasion maneuvers on your flight path. I'm rather sure the Saborian designer's aren't stupid.

http://www.missilethreat.com/cruise/id.5/cruise_detail.asp <--- Guided

And these are missiles that are even, like your tech, well beyond modern technology. Gimme a break.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Shadowsage]

Cruise Missile

The first two lines:

A cruise missile is a guided missile that carries an explosive payload and uses a lifting wing and a propulsion system, usually a jet engine, to allow sustained flight; it is essentially a flying bomb. Cruise missiles are generally designed to carry a large conventional or nuclear warhead many hundreds of miles with high accuracy.

[Tahsir]

There is a difference between guided to a pre determined point, and the ability to self guide to a moving point. I assume the former as they were described as cruise missiles, and cruise missiles, as a rule only have the ability to be guided to static targets.

OOC: Then again, by your own argument. Your shots missed the transports you were shooting at. Since they have about the same odds as you do not getting hit by the missles. Since railgun projectiles have zero tracking system and simply travel as a ballistic in the most rudimentary of senses. Maybe it has stablizer fins.

Common wartime practice is to zigzag ships while in hostile waters as a rule. Granted, on occasion, this rule has been ignored, and often resulted in the expected, deadly, results.

However without Line of Site of your splashes you cannont confirm if you've hit, straddled, or missed.

Edit: haha railfun....:lol:

Edited March 4, 2009 by Tahsir Re

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: For emphasis... from that Wiki definition:

Anti-ship cruise missiles like the RGM-84 Harpoon or the SS-N-12 Sandbox may also employ infrared or radar guidance.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

ooc: Unless you happen to be in an anti-naval role. like the excocet I linked to previously.. then you are intricately programmed to track.. and if you're not a kinetic kill missile you even do special anti-missile system weapon evasion maneuvers on your flight path. I'm rather sure the Saborian designer's aren't stupid.

http://www.missilethreat.com/cruise/id.5/cruise_detail.asp <--- Guided

And these are missiles that are even, like your tech, well beyond modern technology. Gimme a break.

Well then he should have mentioned it. Or can we just do "its high tech, lets assume"

OOC: Then again, by your own argument. Your shots missed the transports you were shooting at. Since they have about the same odds as you do not getting hit by the missles. Since railgun projectiles have zero tracking system and simply travel as a ballistic in the most rudimentary of senses. Maybe it has stablizer fins.

I detected the missiles, and changed course. If I had not, I would have been hit dead on. Since the transports were not described as making maneuvers, it is easy to assume they are traveling in a straight line. Also, where did I say i know if they hit missed or whatever?

@ shadowsage. I don't deny they are high precision, I just say that cruise missiles don't normally have the ability to track moving targets. If they had been described as anti ship missiles, then I would have assumed that. Its all about definitions.

Anti-ship cruise missiles like the RGM-84 Harpoon or the SS-N-12 Sandbox may also employ infrared or radar guidance.

then it should have been noted. Edited March 4, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: I refuse to argue this more. You're being a word lawyer. It was noted in the fact it was a cruise missile type of weapon alone.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Tahsir]

OOC: Targeting ability marked in bold.

*Classified, once again*

[Chairman's office]

Leclerc was at the phone, talking to...someone.

"Are they ready to be deployed?"

On the other line, the man answered. "Yes, Sir. Testing phase is over and we're moving into production. Those new Cruise Missles are gonna do a lot of damage to our enemies."

"They can be fired from planes, as requested, yes?"

"Yes, with little modifications. And their targeting solution can be done by help of sats looking for heat, useful on the oceans.""Indeed. They reach Mach 6, right?"

"Yes, Sir. Scramjet, beautiful stuff. They've got a range of roughly 1000 kilometers, at Mach 6, almost unstoppable. At that speed, even a football's gonna leave a big dent in your armor."

"Great. Mass-produce them, we may need them sooner than thought."

"Of course, Sir. Goodbye."

OOC: For some more info, go to here.

[LeVentNoir]

ooc: I refuse to argue this more. You're being a word lawyer. It was noted in the fact it was a cruise missile type of weapon alone.

ooc: I'll do a baron here. You left, so I win.

Or not. I just wanted to try your tactics against you.

@ Tahsir Re

However, air breathing missiles also have several disadvantages, including relatively poor maneuverability due to problems in the air intake at high speeds.

Also, sat based IR is not accurate to more than about 5km at the best.

[Tahsir]

@ Tahsir Re

Also, sat based IR is not accurate to more than about 5km at the best.

OOC:Hence why he launched 20. Not one. Only one needs to hit a ship to devastate it. So what that 70% of them miss?

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: I'll do a baron here. You left, so I win.

Or not. I just wanted to try your tactics against you.

ooc: Actually my tactics were: You pointed out a flaw so I will retract the weapon. Mudd and UFE's tactics were.. You'll say the weapons weren't as good as they were and take responsibility in the RP for the action which I still object to, but am having to. So you only have them to blame.

And no, I have not left. I'm going to, unfortunately thanks to your stubbornness, have to once again wait to see what Sargun/Mercy say about this mess because you're not behaving reasonably.

And yes, I fired 20 missiles.. and no.. I assure you at least 1 of them will hit because that was what the volley was designed to do. They would have even been firing in anticipation of your maneuvering capabilities. Do we behave like we've been underestimating you? Oh no.. we know full well of what you are capable of.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Lynneth]

@ Tahsir Re

Also, sat based IR is not accurate to more than about 5km at the best.

OOC:

"[...] And their targeting solution can be done by help of sats[...]"

Emphasis: "Can", as in, it's possible to use satellites.

I also left the description ambigous because I'm not a missile-engineer and don't know what I can and cannot use. However, I do generally only use weapons that have more than one modus of targeting stuff if they're sizable enough. Otherwise, multiple weapons, each with a different targeting modus (radar, IR, sonar, laser-guided, whatever) are what I use.

That's been my policy for forever, and is true here. Though the missiles can't maneuver well at Mach 6, they can do small adjustments to the course, though there's s small chance that the missile goes kaput because the course correction is done wrong in some kind, crashing the missile somehow. They are intended to hit moving targets in the anti-ship configuration (there's also an anti-tank config, anti-building and a theoretical anti-air config, maybe even some others that I can't think of right now.) Its propulsion is always the same. The warhead and technology within are not always the same, depending on the task.

[Triyun]

OOC: Last I checked this whole war was on hold pending clarrification of the missile issue by Mercy, was this done?

[Uberstein]

ooc: I'll do a baron here. You left, so I win.

Or not. I just wanted to try your tactics against you.

@ Tahsir Re

Also, sat based IR is not accurate to more than about 5km at the best.

OOC: Sat based IR is being used to find ancient ruins though the jungle, in South America and hasn't been wrong yet, and covers large swaths of jungle at a time.

Sat based IR is fairly good.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

OOC: Last I checked this whole war was on hold pending clarrification of the missile issue by Mercy, was this done?

ooc: This situation is relatively independent of the sea-crawler issue because the weapons being used are Fighter dropped munitions. No ruling yet, but I'll wait all the same. LVN decided to attack us, so I was simply responding.

[MercyFallout]

OOC: Last I checked this whole war was on hold pending clarrification of the missile issue by Mercy, was this done?

OOC: It still is undergoing review. Part of the prolongation is due to the fact that I spent the last two days studying my rear end off for a Calc II test. The other part is because I haven't had decent contact with the other GMs on the staff.

[Subtleknifewielder]

OOC: It still is undergoing review. Part of the prolongation is due to the fact that I spent the last two days studying my rear end off for a Calc II test. The other part is because I haven't had decent contact with the other GMs on the staff.

OOC How many are there, now, and who? I know about you and Sargun already, but I wasn't aware of others.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[Ranather]

OOC How many are there, now, and who? I know about you and Sargun already, but I wasn't aware of others.

OOC: Sargun, Mercy, and Hawk to my knowledge

[Subtleknifewielder]

OOC: Sargun, Mercy, and Hawk to my knowledge

OOC: Ah, thanks. Didn't know about Hawk.

[Triyun]

ooc: This situation is relatively independent of the sea-crawler issue because the weapons being used are Fighter dropped munitions. No ruling yet, but I'll wait all the same. LVN decided to attack us, so I was simply responding.

OOC: All sea crawlers are gone?

[Subtleknifewielder]

OOC: All sea crawlers are gone?

OOC: That's not what he said.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

OOC: All sea crawlers are gone?

ooc: Nope, they're very much there, good news is that with the action paused and peace process complete.. they won't be fired now.. nor will the invasion of Beijing even commence. We're at peace, thanks to Mudd's negotiations, so I'm just going to pull all my forces back. Unless you want Beijing to be occupied briefly for the sake of rp..

Edited March 8, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex