Declaration of War

[King Kevz]

ooc: They did it all the time in WW2, you just watch your oxygen levels and right now, they do not need sonar. They have a sonar network all around them and a radio. This isn't a dedicated warship, so it's not like they can fire back.

OOC : Correct thus where the phrase "Run silent, Run deep" is used or "silent running" as its sometime called plus going active on sonar would be bad for the sub as it would reveal their position.

[Malatose]

OOC : Correct thus where the phrase "Run silent, Run deep" is used or "silent running" as its sometime called plus going active on sonar would be bad for the sub as it would reveal their position.

That is why passive Sonar was developed. Also, most modern submarines use new hull designs. For example, the Soviet Kilo and Akula were deemed "invisibile" at even close ranges. The fact is, turning off all engines wouldn't really work today.

Especially when enemy Sonar can still detect you.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Malatose

[King Kevz]

That is why passive Sonar was developed. Also, most modern submarines use new hull designs. For example, the Soviet Kilo and Akula were deemed "invisibile" at even close ranges. The fact is, turning off all engines wouldn't really work today.

Especially when enemy Sonar can still detect you.

OOC: Passive sonar is good but its range is fairly limited. If you are activly hunting for a target you would want to use active sonar. Plus whilst not completly useful turning off youe engines and diving to deeper depth can help you avoid detection.

[Malatose]

OOC: Passive sonar is good but its range is fairly limited. If you are activly hunting for a target you would want to use active sonar. Plus whilst not completly useful turning off youe engines and diving to deeper depth can help you avoid detection.

OOC: Not really, because if they're going to find you..they are, especially with the Sub sitting in one place. You have Passive/Active frequency spread-spectrum electromagnetic devices, airborne and satellite LIDAR and Magnetic anomaly detection. There are so many others; which, is why in modern submarine warfare, the submarine is always on the move. If these weapons were out in WWII, they would have never had their subs sit in one place.

[Silhouette]

ooc: Need I remind people that two subs collided just the other week because they were both moving slowly with only passive sonar activated...

Edited March 4, 2009 by Silhouette

[Vasili Markov]

Upon confirmation of a hit Neo Olympia will launch cruise missiles at the firer of the missile using targeting info on the alliance battlenet.

The missiles will approach 2m ASL (Above sea level) to avoid radar.

Type 2 Missile mounted Precision Fuel-Air Munition

OOC: this move is on hold until the game starts.... it is just a response to an existing move so I do not forget.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: Re: Malatose: everything you just posted. : You haven't addressed if any detection would work from 450 KM out, where the LVN fleet is right now. I am going to guess.. with engines off, running on internal oxygen.. a sure.. 100%, resounding.. no. Active or passive. The purpose for the dive is actually to avoid top down recon and passive sonar with the engines off.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

IC:

Therminograph control Wellington.

The screen registered well, a lot of very high speed signals moving out of Dragonisian queensland towards Supercruiser ANSC05. The automated threat transmission sent data on speed and range to the cruiser, over riding human controls and sending the ship into automatic evasion mode. With just over 200 seconds until impact, the ship was ordered to perform a 5 degree turn, which with the time until impact and the ships current speed would see the missiles land over a mile from they ships current position.

With the current threat neutralized, and its main targets unaware of their impending doom (OOC:actually they would be already dead, my projectiles move at more than mach six, about mach 21 actually) torpedo control localized and targeted active sonar sources with anti sonar super captivating torpedoes. They would be lowered gently into the water, search for sources, then accelerate, and use their own active sonar to seek the targets in their general targeted area.

Edited March 4, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Silhouette]

OOC: Get real, what a crock, etc.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: The ship would fly apart or at minimum flip over in that turn at that speed and the missiles also adjust for course corrections. I guarantee you no ship of that size within 50 years of present day will be able to do what you're describing. Hydrofoils would break or the ship would flip. Simple preservation of angular momentum.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Shadowsage]

OOC: Considering the controversial nature of the ship itself, I would suggest placing the entire action on hold pending GM review.

[Vasili Markov]

OOC: Considering the controversial nature of the ship itself, I would suggest placing the entire action on hold pending GM review.

OOC: as is the fashion at this time. We really need to stick to refinements of conventional proven technologies if it exists and works in the real world it is my opinion that it will work in CNRP.

[Tanis777]

IC:

Therminograph control Wellington.

The screen registered well, a lot of very high speed signals moving out of Dragonisian queensland towards Supercruiser ANSC05. The automated threat transmission sent data on speed and range to the cruiser, over riding human controls and sending the ship into automatic evasion mode. With just over 200 seconds until impact, the ship was ordered to perform a 90 degree turn, which with the time until impact and the ships current speed would see the missiles land nearly twenty km from they ships current position.

With the current threat neutralized, and its main targets unaware of their impending doom (OOC:actually they would be already dead, my projectiles move at more than mach six, about mach 21 actually) torpedo control localized and targeted active sonar sources with anti sonar super captivating torpedoes. They would be lowered gently into the water, search for sources, then accelerate, and use their own active sonar to seek the targets in their general targeted area.

OOC:

Okay, so I've come to debate this... in a nice logical fashion.

1. Okay, you saw the missiles coming... I'll give you that.

2. You detected and started evasive action only just 0.3 of a second after the missiles launched (Mael's missiles would hit a stationary target at 450 km in about 3.6 minutes)

3. You must have one hell of a computer to process to engage autopliot technology... especially one that can evade "threat target" in the middle of the ocean... plus track and record 20 different targets moving at very high speed. Plus to conduct it all in less than a minute.

4. So your double hulled ships can turn at 161 mph... talk about some serious structural stress. I wonder how that can be possible. A ship like the HydroLance would collapse into the ocean.

Those would my issues with that...

[LeVentNoir]

ooc: The ship would fly apart or at minimum flip over in that turn at that speed and the missiles also adjust for course corrections. I guarantee you no ship of that size within 50 years of present day will be able to do what you're describing. Hydrofoils would break or the ship would flip. Simple preservation of angular momentum.

OOC: What angular momentum? Also, where is the onboard guidance for the missiles described? I don't see any mention of dynamic course correction, nor any method of altering the course of the missile.

OOC:

2. You detected and started evasive action only just 0.3 of a second after the missiles launched (Mael's missiles would hit a stationary target at 450 km in about 3.6 minutes)

Given the unstealthy nature of the missiles, and my sensor which extends out to and over part of continental aussie, yes.

3. You must have one hell of a computer to process to engage autopliot technology... especially one that can evade "threat target" in the middle of the ocean... plus track and record 20 different targets moving at very high speed. Plus to conduct it all in less than a minute.

4000+ tech. Given comp power doubles every 18 months, I would say yes.

4. So your double hulled ships can turn at 161 mph... talk about some serious structural stress. I wonder how that can be possible. A ship like the HydroLance would collapse into the ocean.

We have a space elevator, and various other people have used high strength materials, like carbon nanotubes, new, synthetic fiber technology... I would say that my tech allows me to have a material which can stand that stress. Edited March 4, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Shadowsage]

OOC: The word missile, in common usage, refers to a guided self-propelled projectile.

Edit: Considering that the limit for computer processing is theoretically reached in the 2020 area, where Molecular positioning is the absolute maximum for processing power, I would think not. Moore's Law only goes so far.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Shadowsage

[Tahsir]

OOC: lynneth describes them as cruise missles. Which generally can follow targets with high precision.

With 20 of them its just overkill to make sure of a nice catastrophic death, and avoid such things as "malfunction" and "shot down"

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: The word missile, in common usage, refers to a guided self-propelled projectile.

Edit: Considering that the limit for computer processing is theoretically reached in the 2020 area, where Molecular positioning is the absolute maximum for processing power, I would think not. Moore's Law only goes so far.

I'm about 2021-2022, so I think it can be extended to there, or possibly quantum computing will have been achieved, who knows

OOC: lynneth describes them as cruise missles. Which generally can follow targets with high precision.

With 20 of them its just overkill to make sure of a nice catastrophic death, and avoid such things as "malfunction" and "shot down"

Cruise missiles almost always have no ability to track dynamic targets. They hit static targets with high precision. Second, no mention of any kind of tracking system was made in the post you linked.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: And evasion. They were expecting maneuvers. Cruise missiles don't track? Wut? Never heard of an Exocet?

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Tahsir]

Cruise missiles almost always have no ability to track dynamic targets. They hit static targets with high precision. Second, no mention of any kind of tracking system was made in the post you linked.

OOC: Actually they have cruise missles that can troll for targets now, and hit moving ones. They just input the targeting data, and fire away. Then the thing circles waiting for a match to show up before homing in.

[LeVentNoir]

ooc: And evasion. They were expecting maneuvers. Cruise missiles don't track? Wut? Never heard of an Exocet?

OOC:Note the almost always, and next, no tracking ability was mentioned, nor was any maneuvering ability mentioned in Lyns post, so as far as I know, it has none.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

ooc: Oi vey. I always assume missiles have tracking. I can't think of a single modern missile that DOESN'T track. Otherwise I wouldn't have purchased the missiles. Ship killing missiles fired from that range almost by necessity require guidance, and I'm talking about the type of guidance where it locks onto its target and maneuvers to it, not assigned a simple impact point.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Tahsir]

OOC:Note the almost always, and next, no tracking ability was mentioned, nor was any maneuvering ability mentioned in Lyns post, so as far as I know, it has none.

OCC: You know by that logic then reading about your ships. You posted next to nothing as far as techincal or ability information about them. I call shens.

Rockport vessels will be fitted with jet turbines allowing them to reach speeds up to 200kts. They have two cruising speeds, 60kt, and 140kt. All our ships will be built with technologies so that they have almost no radar cross section and so that all sonar signals from this ship do not sound like a ship due to the method of propulsion and radical design, leading it to be filtered out by most sonar processing systems.

Pulse detonation engines using hydrogen and oxygen gathered by electrolysis of seawater by electricity from the nuclear reactor powers all these ships, allowing them to reach the speeds they can.

Carrier. It carries the Interceptor X, as well as the ability to have any plane in the world land or take off from it using matched speed technology. It also packed a number of surface to surface missiles including KKMs as well as SAMs and cruise missiles.

Supercruiser. It sacrificed the flat deck required for easy matched speed flights to mount a massive 3x 122.5MJ railgun turret in a stealth covering. It had many more missiles, SAMs, Cruise and Kinetic Kill Missiles (KKMs) than either the Carrier or Interdictor classes.

The Interdictor class was almost the same as the Supercruiser, lacking the railguns, but it still carried a set of two 18 inch guns in a stealth covering. These have a range of nearly 150km due to the integration of rocket assisted base bleed projectiles utilising advanced propellant technologies. It carried a large number of missiles, although not as many as the Supercruiser. Due to advanced jet engines, this class was the fastest one Rockport had ever made, with a cruising speed of 175knots, and a top speed of around 250 knots.

Infact there is all the info on three different ships. No where does it say you built them from super structual matierals, just anti-radar detection, could make high speed turns, or had super radar and sonar detection equipment to locate, idenitfy, and respond to threats. Also no super computer auto pilot.

So Nitpick MOAR.

[LeVentNoir]

ooc: Oi vey. I always assume missiles have tracking. I can't think of a single modern missile that DOESN'T track. Otherwise I wouldn't have purchased the missiles. Ship killing missiles fired from that range almost by necessity require guidance, and I'm talking about the type of guidance where it locks onto its target and maneuvers to it, not assigned a simple impact point.

No mention was made in the post describing it, so I see no reason to think it has any ability to track a moving target.

[LeVentNoir]

OCC: Infact there is all the info on three different ships. No where does it say you built them from super structual matierals, just anti-radar detection, could make high speed turns, or had super radar and sonar detection equipment to locate, idenitfy, and respond to threats. Also no super computer auto pilot.

OOC:Fair enough then.

I didn't describe them to your satisfaction, so I'll withdraw the attack, go back and edit my fact book. (Btw, stealth was inculded, and the sensor is the NZ based therminograpgh.)

[Maelstrom Vortex]

OOC: No. I'm sorry LVN, I BELIEVE you just lost a supercruiser.. if you guys are not going to let me take back my actions, by god, you're not. Take your hit on the chin my man. You just lost a super cruiser. And remember, before you get angry, you can thank Mudd and UFE for the laws of consequence.. I'd let you retract this normally because I like making people happy and making RP's quality, but that's not the treatment I've received of late, so I expect equitable standards.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex