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Is an Open World good?


SirDelirium
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Recently I was exploring the forums here and have seen many treaty webs, bloc webs, 3d webs, and all sorts of other ways of looking at alliances and their allies. The world has become such a mess that predicting 2 sides in a war has become almost nearly impossible when you get down into the level of where each individual alliance will go. This creates two major problems: planning wars from a purely logistical standpoint and executing wars from a more CB-oriented viewpoint.

Let us examine the latter issue before we delve into the former. How can we attack anyone knowing full well that they have 18 allies they can call upon? We cant. Single alliance vs alliance wars are a very rare sight. Single alliance vs alliance wars that are even close to balanced are ever rarer. This, I believe, is hurting politics in Planet Bob.

Long gone are the days when one alliance can openly challenge another without fear of getting a bloc or two involved. Where we once saw this, we now see it growing rarer that a single bloc will wage war against another. This, of course, leads to our second problem: planning wars.

Should alliance A wish to attack alliance B, the procedure would be simple. Nations arm themselves, get targets and dates handed out, attack, and follow standard war procedure until terms are offered and accepted. Add a bloc, and now alliance A must get their allies on board to defend them, follow the above procedure, get smashed by alliance B's allies, hope that help arrives, then deal with all manners of other political issues stemming from the simple conflict that they wanted to settle.

Now, I am sure there are a few people reading this who are saying to themselves "That is why CN is fun!" I dissent. CN is fun because I get to sit in IRC channels and speculate about a war from the sidelines. It is fun because I get to bond over the fields of battle with friends and foes alike. I cant do that if there are no wars and no possibilities of wars.

That being said, I would like to state that I do not want anyone to get jumpy and cause a global war to happen right here, right now.

What I do recommend is a less open world. Not all treaties should be quiet, nor should all be visible. Not all treaties should be sacred, nor should all be tossed aside when war comes around.

If treaties we not announced, we would reside in a place of much less trouble about war. Sure, you would still need to be protected by your allies, but you no longer have to dive deep into a horrid tangle of MDPs to decide if it was worth the trouble to get your ideologies across.

As we all know, war is on the way. It is inevitable. Treaties will be dropped, Infra will be destroyed, Alliances will crumble, and ultimately peace and a new buildup will occur. I suggest that buildup be done with a little more secrecy. It might lead to a little more spontaneity.

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I agree completely. I'd like to see two "super" alliances like gramlins and TOP go at it with out interference.

Poor Grämlins, though. :lol:

J/k, that war will never happen thanks to New Mombassa. Please TOP! Don't betray...etc. We have seen the light.

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It was just an example. Of course they won't fight any time soon. They are just two evenly matched alliances.

Other matches which would be cool but not possible

MHA vs MCXA

FOK vs TPF

GR vs Echelon

NPO vs IRON

Edited by The Italian Stallion
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All the wars we will be having? 1000 more DoE's? Dramaz? There will be no shortage.

You have a weird conception of how people act. Not announcing treaties publically doesn't make people stupid. We'd spend more time working out who was allied to who before going through the same issues we go through now, extending the process. We'd also be considerably less likely to attack even in the event we had an enemy totally isolated for fear we had missed some critical connections and were about to walk into a trap.

This entire idea accomplishes exactly the opposite of what you think it will.

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You have a weird conception of how people act. Not announcing treaties publically doesn't make people stupid. We'd spend more time working out who was allied to who before going through the same issues we go through now, extending the process. We'd also be considerably less likely to attack even in the event we had an enemy totally isolated for fear we had missed some critical connections and were about to walk into a trap.

This entire idea accomplishes exactly the opposite of what you think it will.

You make a good point. We would need to have an alliance or two with the stones to start something without the guarantee of overwhelming victory.

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Its not always about the overwhelming victory sometimes going to war is for better reasons like pride or for honor much like LX did, for pride and honor, they kept a treaty for pride and honor but got their asses handed to them. No Treaties would make this planet horrible but overwhelming blocs and treaties do make war almost never happen but that also makes it so there war over stupid reasons.

Edited by LTButterfield
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You make a good point. We would need to have an alliance or two with the stones to start something without the guarantee of overwhelming victory.

Declaring on someone when you have no idea of their strength isn't just declaring without foreknowledge of overwhelming victory. You could easily be declaring into overwhelming defeat. Which is why no one who wants to have any chance of living past a month would do it and thhe game would go back to how it is now, only worse by the definitions laid out in the OP.

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Declaring on someone when you have no idea of their strength isn't just declaring without foreknowledge of overwhelming victory. You could easily be declaring into overwhelming defeat. Which is why no one who wants to have any chance of living past a month would do it and thhe game would go back to how it is now, only worse by the definitions laid out in the OP.

If it's worth declaring war over, it's worth getting the crap kicked out of you while dishing out some damage. You do make a good point, though. However, it would be much more worth it if surrender terms weren't so merciless; in addition, the frequency of DoWs that boil down to "We don't like you and we're in a bad mood", or "Meh, I'm bored" would decrease significantly.

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The "tangled web" is merely a product of nations acting on their self interests. Not losing a war is in the interests of most nations and alliances, so why should it come as a surprise that there is such a plethora of treaties in place.

This peace is a good thing, Almighty Admin after all did create another more hellish world for military conflict to occur spontaineously.

Edited by Count da Silva
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This peace is a good thing, Almighty Admin after all did create another more hellish world for military conflict to occur spontaineously.

If this is a prevailing view then we have failed and all is lost.

Fortunately I think you're still a fringe lunatic, and I think most everyone agrees. "Stagnation" would be a better word than peace, at any rate.

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If this is a prevailing view then we have failed and all is lost.

Fortunately I think you're still a fringe lunatic, and I think most everyone agrees. "Stagnation" would be a better word than peace, at any rate.

Ah, yes, I, the endorser of logical analysis, am the fringe lunatic. :awesome:

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This peace is a good thing, Almighty Admin after all did create another more hellish world for military conflict to occur spontaineously.

Just sitting here buying infra and the occasional wonder and signing random treaties that will never get used sounds exciting!

Edited by Azaghul
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I disagree.

If alliances are hesitant to declare war now, when treaties and connections are clear, imagine how hesitant they will be if they have no idea what the treaties of alliances are? Wars would become even more rare.

Edited by Starcraftmazter
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Un-announced, hidden pacts and treaties serve no purpose if your wish is for a more conflict prone world. In a scenario where secret pacts exist, conflict would be rarer still. Focus would be on Diplomatic / discussion / compromise solutions to issues rather than a call to arms.

Plus it makes it easier for unscrupulous elements to deny ever having entered into a pact when their secret treaty partner is having "it" brought to them.

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Just sitting here buying infra and the occasional wonder and signing random treaties that will never get used sounds exciting!

The wise ruler does not seek war and adventure satisfying his ego; he will only got to war when appropriate for his kingdom. To quote a wise man:

No leader should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no leader should fight a battle simply out of pique. But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life. Hence the enlightened leader is heedful, and the good leader full of caution.

And also:

Move not unless you see an advantage; use not your troops unless there is something to be gained; fight not unless the position is critical. If it is to your advantage, make a forward move; if not, stay where you are. Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content.

Edited by Count da Silva
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