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Godwins law, CN style


Sabioviejo
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You know why this is, a vast majority of the time? A Vox member states an opinion on the issue at hand, which is promptly dismissed as "lol Vox" in similar fashion to "lol FAN" that was so popular for a while. Maybe it's an extreme opinion, maybe it's even a wrong opinion. But it's when people fail to address the opinion and instead resort to attacking the player that the discussion turns into player vs player and Vox vs NPO. Trust me here, I hate it as much as anyone watching on the sidelines; I'd much rather people actually read what I say than seeing 'alliance affiliation: Vox Populi' and making a character attack, but as long as the latter continues to happen you can fully expect any Vox member to defend ad hominem attacks on themselves and their alliance and discussions will continue to devolve until locked.

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You know why this is, a vast majority of the time? A Vox member states an opinion on the issue at hand, which is promptly dismissed as "lol Vox" in similar fashion to "lol FAN" that was so popular for a while. Maybe it's an extreme opinion, maybe it's even a wrong opinion. But it's when people fail to address the opinion and instead resort to attacking the player that the discussion turns into player vs player and Vox vs NPO. Trust me here, I hate it as much as anyone watching on the sidelines; I'd much rather people actually read what I say than seeing 'alliance affiliation: Vox Populi' and making a character attack, but as long as the latter continues to happen you can fully expect any Vox member to defend ad hominem attacks on themselves and their alliance and discussions will continue to devolve until locked.

This is a very good point as well, if the masses of CN actually tried to engage in intellectual discussion instead of name calling at the first oppurtunity, maybe threads would go somewhere better than the local dump. But then again that might be a bit much to expect.

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This is a very good point as well, if the masses of CN actually tried to engage in intellectual discussion instead of name calling at the first oppurtunity, maybe threads would go somewhere better than the local dump. But then again that might be a bit much to expect.

It is too much to expect. Attacking alliance affiliations or the deliverer of a message as opposed to countering the argument presented is so ingrained in the Cyberverse that it will take a long time to change, if it will ever change at all.

While the NPO-Vox to and fro is annoying at times and boring most of the time, I do agree with what Morikitten and Doitzel said. If people insist on the "lol Vox" method of debate then they can hardly be blamed for the derailing of threads that result from that. This goes for the generic "NPO suck", "Polar suck", "Vanguard suck" posts too.

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I think much of the issue is due to the fear of being perceived as weak, or rather being afraid to admit that one may be wrong. I always took the objective of a debate on anything to be a debate to understand as opposed to winning. If people simply were more open minded and there was less flag waving, on both sides, things would fair much better in my opinion.

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If I started doing that I'd almost certainly get myself and my alliance in trouble with somebody or other.
Such a theory would be void if Vox members weren't the only one voicing some sort of opposition.

I bet nobody can guess why these posts made me laugh? Here's a hint, it's not an insult.

To the OP, if you really want to change that, you have to help change it yourself. As it is now, when ever we make ANY kind of opposition to any thread it's pretty much "lolvox destroy ebil npo sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm blah blah blah" and of course, we feel obligated to defend ourselves. If you don't believe me, go into any thread (no seriously, any of them will do) and keep reading it until you find the first post by a Vox member, and then read the responses to that post. I'm sure you'll be amused.

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Which is why a neutral third party should deliver important messages.

!!!Break free from the shackles of alliance affiliation!!!! Join the unaligned!!!

You will never be judged for your alliance, for you will have none.

Then they'll just judge you on your past alliance, or call you a re-roll.

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I have been a proud periphery member since June 2006 and can tell you with great certainty I have faced no discrimination in these forums.

My lack of an alliance affiliation allows me to speak freely without consequence.

As there are few unaffiliated stereotypes, people tend not to react to anything I post based only on my alliance status, unlike members of Vox or NPO. Threads and posts would not be trolled for AA, but for content, if posted by a longtime unaligned player.

Edited by Generalissimo
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I will disagree with this topic for the reasons stated by the Vox members themselves. As the only people willing to challenge the NPO openly (excluding the Angry Sponge Alliance :blush:), the average member of Planet Bob will dismiss them with a 'lol vox' as they believe that justifies ignoring their clever points in a discussion.

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Very true. It ain't the CN forums til it's a NPO vs. Vox debate. :P

-Bama

It's no different than it always has been, just another feel-lucky adversary facing down NPO now.

Ten bucks says that someone beat me to that already but I just don't feel like reading an entire thread today for I am lazy. :P

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That is exactly our point. So until you all fix your little problem with speaking frankly, we will continue to do it for you and we will continue to be the centre of every conversation. It is not our fault that everyone else is too busy cowering in their hidey-hole to elucidate the words "you're wrong".

I agree that most people in established alliances are limited in how frankly they can speak, but this varies greatly in extent and in many cases the limitation is self-imposed, out of respect for their own alliances image rather than personal fear. This does not mean that people don't agree with you on many issues, merely that they have to express it in less direct ways; I'm sure you've already realised this even if it irritates you.

The unfortunate and unavoidable reality for you (Vox) is that while there are many people who understand subtlely, the type of stupid people who can't understand it will still understand frank speech, yet are also the ones most likely to respond with knee-jerk reactions and insults. So by engaging the great majority you're also exposing yourself to the minority at the bottom of heap who start all the crap. There's no easy way to avoid this other than ignore it.

Personally I find a good way to extract useful info and interesting points of view from all the rubbish in OWF is to scan through the posters' names and mentally filter out a list of certain people I've built up, OR anything starting with a quote from one of these posters, OR quoting an insult of any kind. Such rebuttals aren't necessarily made by foolish people themselves, merely people who get dragged into things too easily, and the subsequent discussion while perhaps factual is guaranteed to be irrelevant. I also find the first few pages tend to be the most interesting after which a thread often degenerates, though it depends somewhat on the nature of the thread and who has posted it.

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