Formulating the Cycle

[Tarikmo]

This is CN, wars never happen here, never.

[Bob Janova]

Azaghul, that is a good point and one that I should have made. Each step does not irrevocably lead to the next, you can 'back off' at any point.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

Just to make sure that there are no "sides" to the next war, every alliance should honor all their treaties going in.

Chaos is fun.

[Bob Janova]

That is likely to be impossible.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

That is likely to be impossible.

So? Doesn't mean it can't be glibly suggested in a poll very few take seriously.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Sovyet Gelibolu

[-Wolverine-]

I think it goes like this.

Everyone loves each other, posts on the CN forums about how much they love each other.

They get bored.

And decide to kill each other because they *think* they themselves will be attacked.

I don't know how many potential wars I stopped in GWIII by simply asking the other alliance if they were planning to attack us, and making is very clear that that a war would be brought about their actions and their actions alone. NATO never was attacked, even though the rest of CN was on fire. NATO was not threatened, but people still wanted to declare war on a multitude of alliances for no other reason than blood lust.

Boredom.

CN may seem clam now. But there will be another Great War. The tides of power will shift. Then another war after that.

Neutrality FTW.

Edited February 15, 2009 by -Wolverine-

[Heyman]

So? Doesn't mean it can't be glibly suggested in a poll very few take seriously.

Ouch. That hurts me.

I forgive you, though. I'm quite glad my first topic for the OWForums in a year or two has been dealt with at least a bit of thought. Poll results were exactly as expected. As a player, I am active at best, and very casual at worst, being around for upwards of two years with a position never higher than a squad leader's.

[Homura]

The only way to know if a war is going to happen is to have the privileged information from an alliance actually involved. Anything else is only a guess, although an educated one.

[Emperor Whimsical]

I get the same impression, which is why I don't understand these apparent blunders being committed by the Superfriends. Vox has set it up so that moral high ground can be held against tC, but SF are letting it somewhat slip away with that lottery lolz thread and the KM (not so much though) stuff. This will be my first Great War and I'll probably not even participate, but I'm interested to see how the conflict evolves. Mostly I'm interested to see if the Citidel stays together. That is the crew that I think has the most potency and a terrific identity. It needs to recruit Vanguard and then we could just end the game.

RAD is not SF. and given that there was an agreement between Zenith and GOD, there is hardly a blunder.

[King Death II]

You wanna know the cycle? Every summer, when people have nothing better to do, a GW starts just because people are bored. It has happened every summer and it will continue. GWs are inevitable

[Bob Sanders]

I don't know why you use the word 'but'. The MDP was broken to avoid breaking other treaties; it was still broken. (Defending treaty partners who come under direct attack is not offensive action anyway.) You in fact illustrate why so many treaties get ignored: the web is so complex that you find yourself obliged to do two contradictory actions.

Declaration of War

The Siberian Tiger Alliance hereby enacts its Mutual Aggression and Defence Pact with the New Polar Order.

As a result, the Siberian Tiger Alliance is now in a state of war with those alliances that have attacked Polaris and her allies.

<snip>

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=31064

Now lets consider the wording of the sentence that I highlighted. STA declared war on Valhalla, GGA, TOP, MCXA, Gremlins and numerous other MDP or higher partners of the NPO. The only dishonorable act was the post by Uhtred demanding that NPO "honor" the treaty that STA urinated on in public less than 2 hours before the demand. I can't think of a better reason to cancel a treaty with immediate effect than if that ally just attacked 5+ of your other allies at the same time.

[eyriq]

RAD is not SF. and given that there was an agreement between Zenith and GOD, there is hardly a blunder.

From a tactical sense it gave them some room to put GOD in a bad light. Did it actually work? Not really, unless you already didn't like GOD to begin with. Anyway, I brought up both points as evidence to what Bob was stating, that sides are being taken in controversial threads, which meets one of his pre-war conditions.

[Blacky]

By the time the treaties are being cancelled, not necessarily signatories to blocs but actual MDP, MDoAP, PIAT's it's all just a formality as everything has already been decided including the victor.

Edit:

For clarity, it's only like this in the unipolar entanglement which we've found ourselves in. In the past, notably in GW3 the victor wasn't decided till the bitter end, as there were many alliances who could have easily joined one side or another. For example, at the onset of the war GUARD was announcing it's 9m NS milestone and some 1400 members. Also if I recall correctly IRON was expected to side with Aegis (certain Aegis alliance leaders believed it to be so). So yeah, there are signs.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Blacky

[Bob Janova]

Bob Sanders: again, you are arguing against something I did not say. Whether it was honourable or not, the point still stands: the STA-NPO MDP was ignored, because it resulted in legal absurdities. Several other treaties were also ignored: Echelon-NpO MADP (Ech should have entered on Polar side), NPO-GGA MADP and any other MADPs GGA hold (NPO should have declared on Hyperion in the initial wave, putting it directly against Polar), BLEU (every BLEU alliance should have been defending each other from every attacker, and I'm sure many more I can't remember just now. Similarly, in the UjW, several treaties (notably WUT and the Axis of Awesome but also several MADPs and MDPs) were ignored.

[hertugen]

Bob Sanders: again, you are arguing against something I did not say.

Did you Bob Sanders really to stupid too read?

Treaties are dropped and ignored come war. I expect we will see some action in March/April..

EDIT: votes "yes"

Edited February 16, 2009 by hertugen

[King Death II]

Did you Bob Sanders really to stupid too read?

Treaties are dropped and ignored come war. I expect we will see some action in March/April..

EDIT: votes "yes"

March/April? I think you are jumping the gun, I'd say more likely gonna be July/August/September time period.

[Ryan Greenberg]

You wanna know the cycle? Every summer, when people have nothing better to do, a GW starts just because people are bored. It has happened every summer and it will continue. GWs are inevitable

What is it with this "Great Wars always start in the Summer" theory. That is wrong. Here are some signifigant wars wars that did not start in the summer.

1. Great War 2 - January

2. Great War 3 - March/April

3. Citrus War - February - April

[Lord Boris]

The only way to know if a war is going to happen is to have the privileged information from an alliance actually involved. Anything else is only a guess, although an educated one.

That pretty much sums it up right there.

[caligula]

I think it goes like this.

Everyone loves each other, posts on the CN forums about how much they love each other.

They get bored.

And decide to kill each other because they *think* they themselves will be attacked.

I don't know how many potential wars I stopped in GWIII by simply asking the other alliance if they were planning to attack us, and making is very clear that that a war would be brought about their actions and their actions alone. NATO never was attacked, even though the rest of CN was on fire. NATO was not threatened, but people still wanted to declare war on a multitude of alliances for no other reason than blood lust.

Boredom.

CN may seem clam now. But there will be another Great War. The tides of power will shift. Then another war after that.

Neutrality FTW.

Wolverine

It's MyTh.

Sup?

We need a reunion.