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Kaiser Martens

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OOC: And you think it's funny to photograph yourself with a group of people giving you a Nazi salute? It isn't! Some things are off limits, no matter what the context, no matter what the circumstance. Period. I'm not in favor of censorship, but sometimes when one exercises one's right to free speech one must then pay the price for what one expresses.

OOC: And when you call people Nazi apologists, you cross an even worse line. Even more so when that person hates them and has been deeply effected by them. After I am in Poland, I will still come here and defend Martens, as it is the right and just thing to do. And I promise if I ever go rogue on somebody if/when I leave CN, it will be you. You called me a #&$^*@! Nazi apologist, and I will never forget that.

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OOC: And you think it's funny to photograph yourself with a group of people giving you a Nazi salute? It isn't! Some things are off limits, no matter what the context, no matter what the circumstance. Period. I'm not in favor of censorship, but sometimes when one exercises one's right to free speech one must then pay the price for what one expresses.

For the record: At the very least I think that picture was in poor taste. However, I did not know it was KM until after Weiss von Toten told me it was. I was just trying to get a dig at him not really thinking it could actually BE him in the photo. I yanked the picture after KM confirmed it was indeed him in the photo in one of the threads. The posting of the picture was inconsistent with one of our goals...which was to not expose any information that could lead back to RL identities. We held back a LOT of intel on NoV because it did lead back to RL identities.

To be honest, I'm sorry I posted it (and yes, I have personally to KM).

That doesn't mean I'm a fan of KM...not in the least. I'm just not a fan of P-ZI.

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You're funny Starfox. I haven't "stalked" anyone. I tied 2 pseudonyms together to prove that NoV as an alliance was bad news. As for the individuals that were in NoV, they've gone their own way including some of the ex-NoV that I particularly disliked. I haven't pursued them, nor will I.

I find it rather amusing that you started the first incarnation of Vox Populi with KM last year and you're coming in here to trash me rather than defend him.

Hell, I can't stand you and I don't think I'd want YOU p-ZI...you're entertaining if only for your lack of logic.

OOC: You haven't stalked anyone, really? I don't know about you, but I consider what you did to my friends and allies in the Sons of Muspel, Nordreich, and Norden Verein, and all alliances associated with them to be borderline stalking, and certainly harassment. You went far beyond the game, and went into personal lives to ruin the game for them. The few remaining have gone their own way, now, shall we count all of them that were forced out of the game? Hundreds.

Kaiser Martens knows I have his back. I always have. I've been a true friend to him and have always stuck with him and defended him from, guess who? People like you. Don't tell me to defend him. I know what you are doing here is a charade to poke Superfriends in the eye. You don't care whether or not he plays, you care about gaining the moral high ground in the upcoming war.

And yeah, maybe you don't want me PZI'd, but you had no problem destroying my alliance, and OOC attacking me, and harassing me, with all your Skype buddies.

I will never side with you, and I will never fall for your political !@#$%^&*. I am a true friend of Martens, and you are merely using him.

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I had a part in starting the reformed ICP. Martens helped kill my alliance. Yeah I'm a Nazi apologist for thinking this is unreasonable.

I'm not saying anyone who doesn't think KM should be ZI'd is a Nazi apologist. I just don't understand how so many people are suddenly OK with Nazi jokes.

OOC: To be fair - there's a difference between something like "The Producers," and just taking a picture of yourself getting saluted by a group of friends as though it's funny. One is thoughtful and pointed, one is not. Perhaps things are not as cut and dry as I've been arguing, but I think what KM did falls squarely out of the gray area.

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This. Our terms for the end of your PZI are minimal, the end of your IC character and nothing more. I entrusted to TPF the destruction of Norden Verein and did my best to aid in seeing to it happen (both providing a CB and offering my military existence assistance, which was refused) and assumed they would see to your continued ZI. Given that this did not happen, I took up the slack.

Clear?

You do realize, the Death of Martens in an IC Perspective destroys nothing. There will be always those that cling to the heritage, and beliefs of our previous alliances, and remember the good times that those from the inside no are true. Not this outside slander that destroyed us.

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Why are you so attached to the name "Kaiser Martens" anyhow? Wouldn't you prefer a fresh start in which everyone didn't associate your character with hate, fascism, and bigotry?

Because only a few inane people who either can't let go of the pat or feels justified at witch hunts are asking for his reroll?

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OOC: You haven't stalked anyone, really? I don't know about you, but I consider what you did to my friends and allies in the Sons of Muspel, Nordreich, and Norden Verein, and all alliances associated with them to be borderline stalking, and certainly harassment. You went far beyond the game, and went into personal lives to ruin the game for them. The few remaining have gone their own way, now, shall we count all of them that were forced out of the game? Hundreds.

Kaiser Martens knows I have his back. I always have. I've been a true friend to him and have always stuck with him and defended him from, guess who? People like you. Don't tell me to defend him. I know what you are doing here is a charade to poke Superfriends in the eye. You don't care whether or not he plays, you care about gaining the moral high ground in the upcoming war.

And yeah, maybe you don't want me PZI'd, but you had no problem destroying my alliance, and OOC attacking me, and harassing me, with all your Skype buddies.

I will never side with you, and I will never fall for your political !@#$%^&*. I am a true friend of Martens, and you are merely using him.

I <3 you ever more now.

Because only a few inane people who either can't let go of the pat or feels justified at witch hunts are asking for his reroll?

Because, Martens is Martens. That would be like asking me not to be Ford. It is not possible, it is not plausable, its just darn impossible.

Edited by Aiden Ford
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I'm not saying anyone who doesn't think KM should be ZI'd is a Nazi apologist. I just don't understand how so many people are suddenly OK with Nazi jokes.

OOC: To be fair - there's a difference between something like "The Producers," and just taking a picture of yourself getting saluted by a group of friends as though it's funny. One is thoughtful and pointed, one is not. Perhaps things are not as cut and dry as I've been arguing, but I think what KM did falls squarely out of the gray area.

OOC: /me facepalms, looks at his earlier post, and gives up trying to point out something quite obvious.

GOD, please let Martens go.

/me exits thread

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Completely off-topic but has to be addressed.

GOD's first strike nuker in another front of that war wasn't kicked out either, Xiphosis. Are you really sure you want to go on a double-standards path right now?

A mistake on Cpt's behalf (Drunken CNing) that he offered reps for and was pretty frantic in apologizing for, which Turetel (Who he nuked, I believe) waved away without a second thought.

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Politically, this seems to be a stalled issue. The question we have is whether we want to fan the flames publicly or let Duncan King work with Xiphosis in private channels to resolve things peacefully.

Duncan King has some of the clearest thoughts on Bob, and if we allow enough space for proper negotiations, will be able to arrive at a formula suitable to all parties. I trust in Duncan King.

On the other hand, if things stay public, someone will say something that will lead to a precipitous conflict. Is that what we want to happen right now?

I have no dog in this fight, so I'll choose to keep out of it and recommend that all involved parties meet privately so they can think clearly and not be egged on by outsiders that might want to push their agenda on this situation. Not everyone is doing that, but... better safe than sorry.

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Ok I am going to come in here with some good old compare and contrast.

1) NoV and GOD fight a war.

2)Someone offers to help NoV out if they ZI Xiph

3)Martens is informed that the reasons the ZI was requested were OOC and that the requester was actually stalking Xiph.

4) KM says oh well you are getting ZId anyway.

5) GOD places KM on their PZI list

6)Lots of people care about how unjust PZI is all of a sudden.

Now another situation.

1)Doitzel writes an entirely IC essay

2) Doitzel is E-Zid

3) No one gives a !@#$

Does anyone else see the blatant hypocrisy here? Slayer is a good guy and KM is not the first person he has tried to get off of ZI (I speak from experience) and I am not the biggest fan of PZI myself but I find the blatant double standard from the community here laughable.

Where were all of you when Doitzel was condemned for completly IC reasons? Why are you all here now when someone tries to enforce a punishment for what they see as an OOC attack?

Edited by KingSrqt
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OOC: And when you call people Nazi apologists, you cross an even worse line. Even more so when that person hates them and has been deeply effected by them. After I am in Poland, I will still come here and defend Martens, as it is the right and just thing to do. And I promise if I ever go rogue on somebody if/when I leave CN, it will be you. You called me a #&$^*@! Nazi apologist, and I will never forget that.

As I said - I misworded my comment.

What I meant is that it is not fruitful for me to argue with those who defend what KM did. Clearly, it seems your perspective on the topic seems to be one which is more apt to comment on the situation from than mine.

I apologize whole heartedly, not just as a losing combatant on the CN forums. My words were inappropriate, and I have nothing but admiration for your opinion in context. Perhaps one day I will be as open minded as you.

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Ok I am going to come in here with some good old compare and contrast.

1) NoV and GOD fight a war.

2)Someone offers to help NoV out if they ZI Xiph

3)Martens is informed that the reasons the ZI was requested were OOC and that the requester was actually stalking Xiph.

4) KM says oh well you are getting ZId anyway.

5) GOD places KM on their PZI list

6)Lots of people care about how unjust PZI is all of a sudden.

Now another situation.

1)Doitzel writes an entirely IC essay

2) Doitzel is E-Zid

3) No one gives a !@#$

Does anyone else see the blatant hypocrisy here? Slayer is a good guy and KM is not the first person he has tried to get off of ZI (I speak from experience) and I am not the biggest fan of PZI myself but I find the blatant double standard from the community here laughable.

Where were all of you when Doitzel was condemned for completly IC reasons? Why are you all here now when someone tries to enforce a punishment for what they see as an OOC attack?

You do realize I stand by both My Kaiser, and Doitzel.

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I think this is pretty accurate - who remembers when noWedge wanted to PZI all of BAPS? Who remembers who stopped it (it was the guy I just quoted).

There are some alliances that are guilty of overusing PZI, I don't think TPF is one of them.

It is accurate. Abusing PZI is not something TPF is guilty of.

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OOC: You haven't stalked anyone, really? I don't know about you, but I consider what you did to my friends and allies in the Sons of Muspel, Nordreich, and Norden Verein, and all alliances associated with them to be borderline stalking, and certainly harassment. You went far beyond the game, and went into personal lives to ruin the game for them. The few remaining have gone their own way, now, shall we count all of them that were forced out of the game? Hundreds.

Kaiser Martens knows I have his back. I always have. I've been a true friend to him and have always stuck with him and defended him from, guess who? People like you. Don't tell me to defend him. I know what you are doing here is a charade to poke Superfriends in the eye. You don't care whether or not he plays, you care about gaining the moral high ground in the upcoming war.

And yeah, maybe you don't want me PZI'd, but you had no problem destroying my alliance, and OOC attacking me, and harassing me, with all your Skype buddies.

I will never side with you, and I will never fall for your political !@#$%^&*. I am a true friend of Martens, and you are merely using him.

Hundreds...LOL. There wasn't but 130+ in NoV and NoR was disbanded long before I started with SoM (ex-Nov) in November of '07. Hell, I backed down on THAT one after a tour of their forums.

Dude, get over yourself. I told you personally that we targeted you IC for specific reasons...when it ventured OOC I had it stopped and apologized to you personally for it going too far.

I'm not using KM...I've always been consistent on my disdain for P-ZI...even for people I hate IC. Hell, I went to the wall for TDSM8 (an alliance who was at war with us and our allies) against a close ally because I thought it was wrong.

You're barking up the wrong tree by saying I'm "using KM" when in fact I've been consistent in my regards to p-ZI.

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Ok I am going to come in here with some good old compare and contrast.

1) NoV and GOD fight a war.

2)Someone offers to help NoV out if they ZI Xiph

3)Martens is informed that the reasons the ZI was requested were OOC and that the requester was actually stalking Xiph.

4) KM says oh well you are getting ZId anyway.

5) GOD places KM on their PZI list

6)Lots of people care about how unjust PZI is all of a sudden.

Now another situation.

1)Doitzel writes an entirely IC essay

2) Doitzel is E-Zid

3) No one gives a !@#$

Does anyone else see the blatant hypocrisy here? Slayer is a good guy and KM is not the first person he has tried to get off of ZI (I speak from experience) and I am not the biggest fan of PZI myself but I find the blatant double standard from the community here laughable.

Where were all of you when Doitzel was condemned for completly IC reasons? Why are you all here now when someone tries to enforce a punishment for what they see as an OOC attack?

Doitzel is still in IC conflict related to his "sentence." The reason for KM's sentence is over, and was over a year ago. The timing there is important.

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Hundreds...LOL. There wasn't but 130+ in NoV and NoR was disbanded long before I started with SoM (ex-Nov) in November of '07. Hell, I backed down on THAT one after a tour of their forums.

Dude, get over yourself. I told you personally that we targeted you IC for specific reasons...when it ventured OOC I had it stopped and apologized to you personally for it going too far.

I'm not using KM...I've always been consistent on my disdain for P-ZI...even for people I hate IC. Hell, I went to the wall for TDSM8 (an alliance who was at war with us and our allies) against a close ally because I thought it was wrong.

You're barking up the wrong tree by saying I'm "using KM" when in fact I've been consistent in my regards to p-ZI.

Yea, your not a stalker, I guess we should pull up the flimsy CB against NoV that you used that was really stalkerish.

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I think if the Continuum could move past our individual and collective histories with Kaiser Martens, that says something...
Only a select crowd (primarily populated by Vox members, I'd suspect), but point taken. Still, the real powers in CN would have your back, no matter what the trolls said.

Proof is in the pudding: no one seems to have minded that Q held KM to ZI for quite a while now. Do you suspect someone might have started caring tomorrow, or the day after? Unlikely.

Those two quotes together really say something, now don't they?

I personally think Slayer should butt out of this and respect the sovereignty of another alliance. You don't see GOD releasing people on TPF's ZI list and then demanding TPF let them into RIA.

I'd also further like to point out this is a P-ZI and not a E-ZI. KM can come back in a week, GOD just wants this nation, the nation that caused them pain, gone.

Doitzel is still in IC conflict related to his "sentence." The reason for KM's sentence is over, and was over a year ago. The timing there is important.

The way I see it, you are trying to tell Planet Bob what is right and wrong, and that is a extremely bold statement action.

Edited by Smooth
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Ok I am going to come in here with some good old compare and contrast.

1) NoV and GOD fight a war.

2)Someone offers to help NoV out if they ZI Xiph

3)Martens is informed that the reasons the ZI was requested were OOC and that the requester was actually stalking Xiph.

4) KM says oh well you are getting ZId anyway.

5) GOD places KM on their PZI list

6)Lots of people care about how unjust PZI is all of a sudden.

Now another situation.

1)Doitzel writes an entirely IC essay

2) Doitzel is E-Zid

3) No one gives a !@#$

Does anyone else see the blatant hypocrisy here? Slayer is a good guy and KM is not the first person he has tried to get off of ZI (I speak from experience) and I am not the biggest fan of PZI myself but I find the blatant double standard from the community here laughable.

Where were all of you when Doitzel was condemned for completly IC reasons? Why are you all here now when someone tries to enforce a punishment for what they see as an OOC attack?

First off, I can't speak to the reasons why NPO placed Doitzel on their e-ZI list, but I believe it was for spying. Doitzel is still in Vox and has not surrendered...nor will he. Prolly because he's having too much fun as the bad guy (having been a good guy for much of his stay on PB).

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Those two quotes together really say something, now don't they?

I personally think Slayer should butt out of this and respect the sovereignty of another alliance. You don't see GOD releasing people on TPF's ZI list and then demanding TPF let them into RIA.

I'd also further like to point out this is a P-ZI and not a E-ZI. KM can come back in a week, GOD just wants this nation, the nation that caused them pain, gone.

The way I see it, you are trying to tell Planet Bob what is right and wrong, and that is a extremely bold statement action.

I'm pretty sure that's the deal. If he rerolls, he'll comeback as KM, because that's who he is. I wouldn't have it any other way.

As for TPF butting out, I disagree. This is the one time I respect TPF. :awesome:

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